Sep 10, 2016
16
Hunter 25.5 Lanier GA
So I spent the other day at a steady 30-45 degree angle with a big 155 and full main spread. Very fun and lost rudder effectiveness on a few occasions but this was the unwelcome result. Port side stay anchor on my Hunter 25.5.
Outside deck has a slight cracking that doesn't look to bad but inside a decent sized crack in the fiberglass aft and other issues forward. Pictures show the damage. Looks like at some point had water damage on the bow side but appears
20161001_085038.jpg
20161001_084949.jpg
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to be an older issue that was corrected (probably poorly )
Anyone have advice on repair? Cost estimates? Is it a DIY or professional fix sort of thing? Similar issues?
 
Oct 30, 2011
91
Hunter Cherubini 27 Mason
It's a DIY if you know what your doing, not the sort of repair that's a learn as you go. Hunter is not the sort of boat that's built to take that kind of heel over an extended time. Hunters are good boats but have their limitations, if that's the kind of sailing you like, get a boat capable of blue water sailing. Not having seen the job I couldn't estimate the repair cost, but it'll be substantial.
 
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Sep 3, 2012
195
Hunter 285 Grand Rivers Ky
What?!? You saying hunters can't take a 45 degree heel? Hmmm, I think that's not correct. we should NEVER insult someone's boat on this forum and tell them to buy a new boat.

Although I would never sustain a 45 degree heal because I and most importantly my "significant other" in my life don't like it. But that's just us. (I love her and want to make her as comfortable as I can.)

The damage, looking at the photos, looks old to me and sailing just made the repair job show its weakness. One wonders if the original damage was caused by over torquing the standing rigging or some sort of unrelated accidental damage years ago. From the photo it is not clear to me if it's actually pulling out, or is the crack just affecting weather sealing? Probably need to see it in person to properly evaluate the damage and figure out the original cause. But I have seen people over tighten rigging on a hot day. One guy told me he was working to change the sail shape and had the mast bent considerably. I don't know about the wisdom of that but that's another discussion. In that case it put too much strain on the fiberglass rear deck and caused leaks as the back stay chain plates pulled the deck way up.

But that's another story. Just saying it is not clear to me from the photos what caused the damage initially and I think understanding that is important. But while I have not spent time sailing at 45 degrees, it seems unlikely this alone would cause damage like this if it was solid to begin with.

It would be probably be wise, since it is affecting your mast, to consult and pay a local experienced professional like a marine engineer with sailing experience for their opinion. If you pay them for advice they may be willing to advise you on how you can repair this yourself. Then pay them again to inspect your repair and then you may have to redo it or be good to go.

It's a DIY if you know what your doing, not the sort of repair that's a learn as you go. Hunter is not the sort of boat that's built to take that kind of heel over an extended time. Hunters are good boats but have their limitations, if that's the kind of sailing you like, get a boat capable of blue water sailing. Not having seen the job I couldn't estimate the repair cost, but it'll be substantial.
 
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Joe

.
Jun 1, 2004
7,999
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
First of all... those are called "chain plates". If you use the terms "sailboat chain plate repair" you will most likely get some google/YouTube hits giving you a lot of visuals to help you determine the extent of damage and how to maker repairs.

Your bulk head appears to have water damage and it was repaired with the 1x4 shim on the other side. It butts up against the deck stringer.... It actually looks like it will hold... but the optimal solution is to replace the entire bulkhead to spread the load. There are videos on how to do that. You'll find out that removing the old bulkhead intact so you can use it to pattern the new one is the key to making it relatively easy. On deck, it looks like a previous owner painted right over the chain plate cover.. you should be able to lift it up to inject a flexible sealant... 4200 would work. Those deck cracks are a result of the chain plates flexing, I've seen worse though, Anyway, it's important that you be able to check the caulking easily in the future so don't paint over it..

If you have water damage to the DECK along with the bulkhead... you may have a more serious repair.... you can still do it your self, though. So... now that you know the terminology it will be easier to find articles and videos that will address your concern.... I think that's your safest path.

Oh, btw... if you sail your boat flatter... say less than 15 deg... it will go faster and handle better. Just sayin' a broach will not only stress the rig.... it will stress out your guests.
 
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Nov 6, 2006
9,884
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
I think Joe is right on here.. Looks to me that the bulkhead itself, which is supposed to be the load bearing part, has been water damaged so that the shim is now taking the load and bearing on the under deck cross beam which has broken as a result of it not being designed to be a load bearing piece. the area can be temporarily reinforced with a much bigger shim to spread the load, and/ or another shim on the chainplate side of the bulkhead to better spread the load. The shrouds will have to be disconnected and the chainplate removed to properly do that repair. The rig will have to be loosened a bit to do that and a halyard will have to be used temporarily to hold the mast up while the work is done.. Again, as Joe says, if you search on this site for chainplate repair, you will find some helpful info.
 
Jun 8, 2004
10,024
-na -NA Anywhere USA
Dutchman stated in the beginning, "So I spent the other day at a steady 30-45 degree angle with a big 155 and full main spread. Very fun and lost rudder effectiveness on a few occasions but this was the unwelcome result."
As a former sailor who did race various boats and as a dealer very much involved with smaller boats to include the 25.5, sailing with a full 155% genoa and full main heeling way over will cause undo stresses on any boat over time. It sounds like this occurred in high wind sailing at an maintained excessive heeling. I have seen and repaired such damage in the past as a dealer. I have always maintained with less heel between 12-14 degrees and control of sails to include reefing in high winds, you will sail faster and safer. What I picked up on to further believe this is the loss of rudder control as stated on occasion.
Ok, some are going to jump on me for these comments but there is a question of safety not so much for the boat but for the crew and skipper.

Having been caught in high winds, the first thing I would have done is to head up into the winds, reduce sail accordingly and then sail again with much less heel thus enjoy a comfortable sail knowing we would be safe. I have sailed Lanier in high winds as well starting back in the early 80's.
 
Sep 10, 2016
16
Hunter 25.5 Lanier GA
Thanks for the input everyone. First off let me set your minds at ease and say it was only myself and my adventurous buddy in the boat. I would never have been working the boat that hard with the wife and kids on board.
Yes, we did it primarily for fun but I also wanted to test her limits and get comfortable with the feel in heavy winds as it's a new boat for me. Also the boat only came with the 155 and I've been on the lookout for anow affordable smaller jib. Call it a rookie mistake (as I have not been on a sailboat in 10 plus years).
As for the chain plates, there does look to be water damage on the forward bulkhead but it looks to be old and like I said, probably poorly addressed by the PO.
I'll have to check on the Web for videos assessing bulkhead removal but from the sounds of it, a professional will probably have to be contacted.
Does anyone have a diagram to how the bulkhead and plates are assembled? Finding info on this model is a difficult task as all there seems to be is basic information.
 
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Jun 8, 2004
10,024
-na -NA Anywhere USA
Dutchman;
Why don't you add roller furling suggesting CDI. You would have the perfect sail but would need to be sent off to a sail loft for a #6 luff tape and sunbrella cover. Thank you posting but admittably I have gone past the limit with a new boat to see what it would do and asked many a dumb questions over the years as if I was a customer. I have always felt speaking of layman's terms vs. being mr know it all which many over the years appreciate. One other suggestion, never let a guest try to push you to the limit. In an accident, the one who is skippering the boat at the time of the accident will be the one who is responsible.

Leaks caused at the chain plate. If you will look under all that silicon and hopefully not added gel coat are four screws generally Phillips head. Take the screws off, lift up as far as you can that plate, remove all caulk and reseal with new caulk allowing it to ooze out. Wipe off access and let dry. This will be a maintenance item from time to time. Can you take a better photo of the underside of the deck where the chain plate is? I am trying to determine if that crack on top in the gel is only in the gel coat. Better yet, determine with something very thin how thick that crack is and if not far, then gel coat only. The structural item is the bulkhead and advise if it is soft and or wet around the interior chain plate. Also post another photo of the other side of the bulk head showing the nuts with close shot of the left side as I am thinking I saw something there. Not those nuts the squirrel is putting away for winter. Ha Ha had to throw that in.
 
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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
What?!? You saying hunters can't take a 45 degree heel? Hmmm, You better call and inform the coat guard and have the brand banned from the seas. However, i think your wrong and we should NEVER insult someone's boat on this forum. That's just being a jerk. Although I would never sustain a 45 degree heal because I and most importantly my "significant other" in my life don't like it. But that's just us. (I love her and want to make her as comfortable as I can.)

Saying a hunter can't sail in blue water is like saying volkswagons can't get on the freeway because they are not made by Porsche. Bigger heavier boats are more comfortable in blue water, but due to canteliever forces are more prone to break ups in blue water storms than their shorter lighter weight little buddies. Short sailboats have less comfort for humans in rough seas but more strength because the arm is shorter. Less leverage for the high winds to damage.

The damage, looking at the photos, looks old to me and sailing just made the repair job show its weakness. One wonders if the original damage was caused by over torquing the standing rigging or some sort of unrelated accidental damage years ago. From the photo it is not clear to me if it's actually pulling out, or is the crack just affecting weather sealing? Probably need to see it in person to properly evaluate the damage and figure out the original cause. But I have seen people over tighten rigging on a hot day. One guy told me he was working to change the sail shape and had the mast bent considerably. I don't know about the wisdom of that but that's another discussion. In that case it put too much strain on the fiberglass rear deck and caused leaks as the back stay chain plates pulled the deck way up.

But that's another story. Just saying it is not clear to me from the photos what caused the damage initially and I think understanding that is important. But while I have not spent time sailing at 45 degrees, it seems unlikely this alone would cause damage like this if it was solid to begin with.

It would be probably be wise, since it is affecting your mast, to consult and pay a local experienced professional like a marine engineer with sailing experience for their opinion. If you pay them for advice they may be willing to advise you on how you can repair this yourself. Then pay them again to inspect your repair and then you may have to redo it or be good to go.
Dude. Chill.
 
Sep 10, 2016
16
Hunter 25.5 Lanier GA
Here's a few more pics of the damage. There is no other visible damage other than those pics. The chain plate is facing forward of the bulkhead while the wooden part (it's the same setup on the starboard side) is aft of bulkhead and has lifted into the fiberglass ceiling causing the cracked fiberglass. Outside it appears to be no more than a gel coat cracking. And yes, the PO has done a poor job sealing and painting over stuff I would not have done.
20161001_084925.jpg
20161001_084900.jpg
20161001_085038.jpg
20161001_084947.jpg
20161001_084925.jpg
 
Sep 10, 2016
16
Hunter 25.5 Lanier GA
Dutchman;
Why don't you add roller furling suggesting CDI. You would have the perfect sail but would need to be sent off to a sail loft for a #6 luff tape and sunbrella cover. Thank you posting but admittably I have gone past the limit with a new boat to see what it would do and asked many a dumb questions over the years as if I was a customer. I have always felt speaking of layman's terms vs. being mr know it all which many over the years appreciate. One other suggestion, never let a guest try to push you to the limit. In an accident, the one who is skippering the boat at the time of the accident will be the one who is responsible.

Leaks caused at the chain plate. If you will look under all that silicon and hopefully not added gel coat are four screws generally Phillips head. Take the screws off, lift up as far as you can that plate, remove all caulk and reseal with new caulk allowing it to ooze out. Wipe off access and let dry. This will be a maintenance item from time to time. Can you take a better photo of the underside of the deck where the chain plate is? I am trying to determine if that crack on top in the gel is only in the gel coat. Better yet, determine with something very thin how thick that crack is and if not far, then gel coat only. The structural item is the bulkhead and advise if it is soft and or wet around the interior chain plate. Also post another photo of the other side of the bulk head showing the nuts with close shot of the left side as I am thinking I saw something there. Not those nuts the squirrel is putting away for winter. Ha Ha had to throw that in.
All seem solid around the chain plate - no soft spots. I paid special attention to this when looking at the situation which is why I thought the issue was superficial.
 
Sep 10, 2016
16
Hunter 25.5 Lanier GA
As a side question. Anyone here on Lanier GA? Can you recommend a good repair guy to fix this self-inflicted wound lol.
 
Jun 8, 2004
10,024
-na -NA Anywhere USA
Look at the chain plate on the side showing the nuts at the bottom of that plate. Am I seeing correctly that the plate or ss backing plate moved as I see gel coat fragments on top of the nut with possible movement as I see discoloration on the bottom and to the left as if that plate moved? There is a Hunter or former Hunter dealer still in the area who would know what to do. First, lets get a little more information.
One of the chain plate is a solid piece going up to the tangs that is bolted on the other side with a backing plate only without protruding outside. If your mast is up, you could take your jib and main halyards securing them to the side affected in order to remove those to see what is going on. If you want to talk with me, then send a private email with your name and phone advisising Lanier and shroud chain plate issue which then I know what it is about. Your information is very private.

dave condon
 
Jul 29, 2004
406
Hunter 340 Lake Lanier, GA
As a side question. Anyone here on Lanier GA? Can you recommend a good repair guy to fix this self-inflicted wound lol.
Dutchman
I'm at Aqualand on L. Lanier. There is a self service yard here and lots of guys who work different trades. They have a bulletin board at the office shack with business cards of people who work in the area. You might start with Wes Compton at 6789366819. I've used him for rigging and bottom jobs.
 
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Jun 8, 2004
10,024
-na -NA Anywhere USA
The sailboat company I was trying to remember is owned by Ann at Snug Harbor. Good folks to work with.

John, good call on that chain plate. I wondered about that but going back and rethinking, now that chain plate needs to come off. I suspect serious damage may be hidden. What I am not sure if the bulkhead where glassed to the hull is firm and holding. It may appear that the chain plate has also shifted sideways as well. If I remember correctly and I may be wrong, that marine ply fits up into ceiling line pan flange for it. Could be wrong but suggest stop sailing until that is looked at. Dutchman, have that checked out before you go back sailing. ;I do not feel good about that. Please understand that I err on the side of safety and you cannot replace yourself sir.
Ed was gracious to make some suggestions of others for you. Take a photo of where the bulkhead flange would be tied into the hull for us.
 
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Sep 10, 2016
16
Hunter 25.5 Lanier GA
Dutchman
I'm at Aqualand on L. Lanier. There is a self service yard here and lots of guys who work different trades. They have a bulletin board at the office shack with business cards of people who work in the area. You might start with Wes Compton at 6789366819. I've used him for rigging and bottom jobs.
Ed
Thanks for the info. My boat is also at Aqualand. I'll be giving Wes a call.
 
Sep 10, 2016
16
Hunter 25.5 Lanier GA
The sailboat company I was trying to remember is owned by Ann at Snug Harbor. Good folks to work with.

John, good call on that chain plate. I wondered about that but going back and rethinking, now that chain plate needs to come off. I suspect serious damage may be hidden. What I am not sure if the bulkhead where glassed to the hull is firm and holding. It may appear that the chain plate has also shifted sideways as well. If I remember correctly and I may be wrong, that marine ply fits up into ceiling line pan flange for it. Could be wrong but suggest stop sailing until that is looked at. Dutchman, have that checked out before you go back sailing. ;I do not feel good about that. Please understand that I err on the side of safety and you cannot replace yourself sir.
Ed was gracious to make some suggestions of others for you. Take a photo of where the bulkhead flange would be tied into the hull for us.
Dave
Many thanks for the great advice and suggestions. As soon as I get back to the boat I'll try and get better photos of the plate and any other places that look sketch around the area. I'll be sending you a pm soon. Thanks again
Joel
 
Sep 10, 2016
16
Hunter 25.5 Lanier GA
Just because sailing pictures are better than repair pictures I thought I'd share some from the day that caused these problems.
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