Ideal trailerable sailboat - theoretical approach

[Jackdaw]

Gotcha!

Hull form has a lot to do with that. A Buddy had a Bayliner Buccaneer many years ago and it had zero initial stability, even with a swinging keel. The shape under water had to have been basically just a round barrel. I hated that boat...

Yep.... ;^) I had recently been looking at a design of a Vendee boat that has tanks above the waterline... they pump water into the tank on the high side. Transferred the image in my head to this conversation.... but of course that makes no sense in a water ballasted boat.. plus hard to do because the tanks are always gravity filled!

 

[Kermit]

Merry Christmas, y'all.

 

[Jackdaw]

Here's a video that re-caps the development of the Seascape 27, a Slovakian 27 foot trailer-able boat. It really brings out some the the points that have made in this thread.

1) A new boat HAS to be very well designed to get a prospective buyer to go new and not not used. Old thinking is punished here. Very typical of this line of thinking, an internal design team worked along side the naval architect to make sure the interior was as well sorted out as the performance. This is now thought of as best practice in the marine industry.

2) The design is state of the art: light, beamy well aft with dual rudders, mechanical lifting keel, and asym kites. Tons of room and storage inside. OB in a well or inboard electric or diesel.

3) The rig is fractional, powerful, but easy to control with a non-overlapping headsail and asym kites. Most of the time downwind the boat is 8-10 knots +. More when it pipes up.

Think like this, sweat the details, and get rewarded. Probable European Boat of the Year, and the entire 2013 production run is sold out.


http://youtu.be/2T1CtuhMaks

 

[philwsailz]

Here's a video that re-caps the development of the Seascape 27, a Slovakian 27 foot trailer-able boat. It really brings out some the the points that have made in this thread.

1) A new boat HAS to be very well designed to get a prospective buyer to go new and not not used. Old thinking is punished here. Very typical of this line of thinking, an internal design team worked along side the naval architect to make sure the interior was as well sorted out as the performance. This is not thought of as best practice in the marine industry.

2) The design is state of the art: light, beamy well aft with dual rudders, mechanical lifting keel, and asym kites. Tons of room and storage inside. OB in a well or inboard electric or diesel.

3) The rig is fractional, powerful, but easy to control with a non-overlapping headsail and asym kites. Most of the time downwind the boat is 8-10 knots +. More when it pipes up.
Think like this, sweat the details, and get rewarded. Probable European Boat of the Year, and the entire 2013 production run is sold out.


http://youtu.be/2T1CtuhMaks

The sailing segments point out that this is a FAST boat. How exciting that thing must be to drive!!!! My wife would hate it though... As she puts it, "Too Tippy....."

Thanks for sharing!

 

[Jackdaw]

The sailing segments point out that this is a FAST boat. How exciting that thing must be to drive!!!! My wife would hate it though... As she puts it, "Too Tippy....."

Thanks for sharing!

Here's the best part Phil... tell her its not tippy! With the deep draft and exactly 1/2 of its 2500lbs displacement in its keel. She's very stiff.

The information sheet is very interesting. They make quite a case.

http://www.biehlmarin.com/mediapool/3/35906/data/Seascape_27/2x-stage2_ver6.pdf

 

[philwsailz]

Here's the best part Phil... tell her its not tippy! With the deep draft and exactly 1/2 of its 2500lbs displacement in its keel. She's very stiff.

The information sheet is very interesting. They make quite a case.

http://www.biehlmarin.com/mediapool/3/35906/data/Seascape_27/2x-stage2_ver6.pdf

I'm still concerned how she will react to the C27. Hull form of the C27 is very much more barrel compared to the old C22. Granted I got a lot more weight in the keel, but a flatter aft-section would undoubtably be more comfortable under a breeze, if the rudder and all other appendages were adjusted accordingly...

 

[Jackdaw]

I'm still concerned how she will react to the C27. Hull form of the C27 is very much more barrel compared to the old C22. Granted I got a lot more weight in the keel, but a flatter aft-section would undoubtably be more comfortable under a breeze, if the rudder and all other appendages were adjusted accordingly...

I forget you bought yours and she when right into restoration! I think she'll be fine, its stiffer than the 22 for sure. With a jib the SA/D ratio is low 15:1. Good boats, there is a reason Catalina was able to make an amazing 6000 of them.

 

[caguy]

I'm still concerned how she will react to the C27. Hull form of the C27 is very much more barrel compared to the old C22. Granted I got a lot more weight in the keel, but a flatter aft-section would undoubtably be more comfortable under a breeze, if the rudder and all other appendages were adjusted accordingly...

I agree with Jackdaw, I went from the Mac 25 to the C27 and it is much more stable. I handles larger swells better and just feels more solid when heeled. On the Mac I was always concerned about broaching, with the Cat 27 I can bury the rail and not worry less about a broach, however I am still getting over the conditioning from the Mac25. I went through that when going from the Hobie 16 to the Mac.
The main reason in going up in size was to make the admiral feel safer.

 

[philwsailz]

I agree with Jackdaw, I went from the Mac 25 to the C27 and it is much more stable. I handles larger swells better and just feels more solid when heeled. On the Mac I was always concerned about broaching, with the Cat 27 I can bury the rail and not worry less about a broach, however I am still getting over the conditioning from the Mac25. I went through that when going from the Hobie 16 to the Mac.
The main reason in going up in size was to make the admiral feel safer.

I had a Venture 222 years ago. Mac 25 to Catalina 27??? Hell yeah that was a step up in terms of stability!!! Shoot, that Venture was a short-lived boat for me after I got the first C22. Even a C22 was a huge step in terms of hull form stability!!!

My wife has been with me once on a fixed keel C25 and was pretty happy now that I think about it. She also spent LOTS of time on a C22 that I often drove pretty aggressively. She sometimes need 24 oz. of "liquid courage" as we called it, but after "heeling" up for a while with a beverage or two she got comfy.

Here is the comfort I am looking for: I want to be able to stretch out with one hand on the tiller, cruising along sitting, (lounging) in the cozy V in the LOW side of the cockpit. With the C22 I always felt the need to have my mass to the high side.

Pray for rain. We need ten-billion gallons to fall from the sky into our lake. It probably is more like 20-billion since the ground will absorb a lot before runoff will stately filling the lake back up...

 

[Jackdaw]

Phil, I was googleing around last night looking at the water levels in your area. Sad! I have friends in Austin that share your plight.

But then I came across some bizarre practice called noodling. Watched some crazy youtube vids. Please tell me you don't fish like that! ;^)

 

[Indysailor]

Phil, I was googleing around last night looking at the water levels in your area. Sad! I have friends in Austin that share your plight.

But then I came across some bizarre practice called noodling. Watched some crazy youtube vids. Please tell me you don't fish like that! ;^)

I saw this film a few years ago. I watched in slack jawed stupification at this practice. It's only legal in four states.
http://www.snagfilms.com/films/title/okie_noodling

 

[philwsailz]

Phil, I was googleing around last night looking at the water levels in your area. Sad! I have friends in Austin that share your plight.

But then I came across some bizarre practice called noodling. Watched some crazy youtube vids. Please tell me you don't fish like that! ;^)

Only on third Thursdays... Sooooo kidding.....

I might be a little bit redneck, but nowhere near those guys. Still I have friends who do. When I see it in practice, I keep hearing banjos playing music from Deliverance.....

 

[DILLIGAS]

$55,000 a missing some important "options" but if you can afford $70+ it reads and sounds nice. Are there import taxes on top of the $55k. Obama may do another luxury tax with his lust for money from you rich sailors. ;-)

 

[leecarr]

Why not use flexible water bags for removable ballast? Much lighter to transport when empty than steel weight which is a constant. Fill at destination.

 

[Jackdaw]

Why not use flexible water bags for removable ballast? Much lighter to transport when empty than steel weight which is a constant. Fill at destination.

The big trick is to secure it. Although much lighter than lead for even cast iron, water is very heavy, and bags of water in particular are hard to secure. In a big heel? In a knock-down? You do see flexible water bladders used in boats, but they are rarely bigger than 20 gallons, and even then they are fastened down industrially.

 

[leecarr]

The big trick is to secure it. Although much lighter than lead for even cast iron, water is very heavy, and bags of water in particular are hard to secure. In a big heel? In a knock-down? You do see flexible water bladders used in boats, but they are rarely bigger than 20 gallons, and even then they are fastened down industrially.

Someone had suggested to carry extra ballast weight to be installed after launch, my thought was to not carry lead to and from just fill bags once there. I suppose they could be strapped down and they would find the lowest spots.
I have a 35 gal. fuel bag in my water ballast tank, I fill and drain as I always did. I now don't have the weight of fuel above the waterline. That's a whole other person or 2. I am seriously thinking of installing a fresh water ballast plus system.

 

[webcomarine]

check out Seaward 26

 

[Jackdaw]

Someone had suggested to carry extra ballast weight to be installed after launch, my thought was to not carry lead to and from just fill bags once there. I suppose they could be strapped down and they would find the lowest spots.
I have a 35 gal. fuel bag in my water ballast tank, I fill and drain as I always did. I now don't have the weight of fuel above the waterline. That's a whole other person or 2. I am seriously thinking of installing a fresh water ballast plus system.

As long as you have no leaks, the gas tank in the ballast tank is clever.

As for the removable ballast, I'm assuming you are very sensitive to tow and launch weight. What ever you do, strap it down very well. Remember that you are right, it would find the lowest spots, but those spots can change rapidly!

 

[bigpapaporsche]

I love my Hunter 33, The boat builders at Marlow-Hunter, formerly known as Hunter Marine, may have been too successful, if that’s possible, with their prodigious production run of more than 600 Hunter 33s.

I'll add my two cents. IMHO, the Dana 24 is the one for me, as soon as we win the lottery! Its not cheap but you can really grow into this boat, including blue water. Standing headroom, great styling, inboard diesel, marine head, teak trim etc. The only item missing, that I would want, is a Wheel Helm. We have a Seaward 23 now, that has many of the features that Dana 24 has.

 

[davisr]

If you're interested in a trailerable cruiser, check out the Ericson 25. See especially the four-part article, "Why I Bought the Ericson 25," which addresses a variety of trailerable boats in the 23-27 foot range. www.ericson25.com