Ideal trailerable sailboat - theoretical approach

[Bosman]

Hi all,

Let's face it. Currently there are not really that many choices when it comes to NEW trailerable sailboats on the market in North America. It is a specific niche, we have a lot of boats which are ageing and loosing their appeal and looks as boat styling and design is changing. I would like to talk about trailerable boat(s) that we would like to see. How long? How wide? How much? What weight? What comfort features would we like to see in out "ideal" boat? Do post your ideas and thoughts, comments and suggestions. Let the imagination kick in

I shall break the ice and start. Here is what I would like to have in my "ideal" boat.

Price (ready to sail, with motor, trailer etc, "turn key package") : below $55000
Length: 24-26ft (hull length, LOA can be longer)
Beam: Maximum legal is 8'6" (no permit) in US and Canada.
Type: Centreboard/light swing keel
Draft: min 1ft, max (keel down) say around 6ft
Self righting
Standing height: min 5'8
Outboard in a well with possibility to lift it up out of the water stream
Maximum waterline length (so nearly vertical bow)
Maximum beam carried aft
Hard chimes for larger internal volume
No balsa sandwich
Enclosed head
Plenty of wood inside
Well equipped galley
Standard roller
Standard lazy jack w/integrated sail cover
Swim platform
Integrated mast lowering system to go under bridges etc on the fly
Kick up rudder
Ballast: balance of solid ballast in the hull and water ballast for towing with larger SUV

So these would be my requirements. Yes, I know the boat would have a higher freeboard, but as a boat I would use extensively on weekends or longer, I do want more comfort than comfortable sitting height.

 

[finding41]

Here is one that looks nice. I'm not sure if it has standing head room but it looks like it has most everything else. (I know it's a Chinese copy of some other boat I'm just not sure what one...) Looks fast.
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/241782529/7_7m_Luxurious_Coastal_Sailboat_yacht.html

Edit: This is the boat I would love to have a trailer able version of. http://www.aurayatcilik.com/aura-27.html

 

[Sail123]

No such sailboat exists to my knowledge.

If you raise your price points to 130,000 to 200,000 dollars, there are choices.

The extensive wood below is one area where you are going to have to raise your budget.

In your budget, look at MacGregor and Hunter. I believe Hunter dropped the water ballast. Macs only come in power boat versions now, that do double duty. Sail one minute, pull a skier the next minute. Also cuts down on time dead heading to a remote location to sail with friends.

The Mac is pretty spartan with a plastic look. It does have an enclosed head and pretty average head room, if you are an average 11 year old, you can stand up in the cabin. Lol

 

[Relentless]

Doesn't have everything you want,but it's close
http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=133409

 

[CaptDon01]

How about the Catalina-250 water ballast? I'm not a fan of water ballasted boats, but I couldn't believe the stability of these after sailing with a friend. Enclosed head, tiller or wheel, stern pulpit with seats, walk thru transom. Very roomy interior, and easily trailed and set-up with the factory mast raising system. Been in production since 1995, so the design has been well tested.

Don

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

I use to be a small boat trailerable sailboat dealer and was often asked that question.

First, I would tell my customers to ask themselves what they want to do with the boat. One question, how often will the boat be trailed. Second question, how much room and finally asthetics was an important issue as welll. On asthetics, if you like the style, you are more apt to keep the boat much longer. Also get the biggest so you will not think of upgrading in the next five years.Then you can start looking.

If trailering alot, then considerations should be:
1. Wieght to tow which is a consideration of tow vehicle
2. Width which you have alread pointed out
3. Mast raising gear if you cannot raise the mast by yourself
4. Water ballst/swing keel vs fixed keel for ease of launching.retrieving
5. Cost

Although none of my customers ever got wide load permits as the sillouwhette of the boat from the back end did not look overwidth but at 8"6", the widest part of the Hunter 26 and 260 is 8" 11 1/4". I am not sure about going into Canada but I have had a few go in without issue as long as you said 8' 6" but that decision rests with the owner. If trailering into Mexico, do not cross over unless you have Mexican insurance on both the tow vehicle and boat/trailer because you will be in trouble if involved in an accident no matter whether or not you are liable.

Obviously, cost is really not an issue for you but it is for many. If buying used and you are not that good or too far away on inspections of used boats, then I suggest a surveryor. If buying new, I would encourage you to try and deal with the closest dealer just for warranty issues. I h

Good luck with your search

carazy dave condon

 

[shemandr]

Doesn't have everything you want,but it's close
http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=133409

Looks like a really fun boat Wonder if there are any of the 17's in the US

 

[Bosman]

Thanks for all the replies. Perhaps I did not made myself clear enough. I already have a boat which I absolutely love and I am not looking for another yacht. What I am trying to do is just simply some brainstorming in creating my ideal trailerable, not necessarily a design that has been actually made and also finding in the process what kind of a boat would other members of this forum want.

finding41: Aura 27, for starters, has a bulb keel. Out of question for trailerable. Also, heeling characteristics of such boat would be rather poor - it would heel on its side aft and bow would dive in.

Glory Daze: Nice boat, interesting design and it should be very fast when reaching. I don't like the way it heels and it is more of a racing boat than a fast cruiser.

Sail123: MacGregor and Hunter are out of question. Period. These are old and dated designs. At least for me

Crazy Dave Condon:
1. Wieght to tow which is a consideration of tow vehicle
- This is why I believe having hybrid with fixed-ballast/water ballast might be a solution to bring the trailerable weight down. Or, how about removable ballast?? Maybe steel bricks that are about 80lbs each and can be removed for towing?
3. Mast raising gear if you cannot raise the mast by yourself
Already on the list:
Integrated mast lowering system to go under bridges etc on the fly

These are good points, never the less. Keep your thoughts coming!

 

[Stan Breaux]

I vote for the Seaward 26rk. The sewards are beautiful and seem very seaworthy.
I used to sail a Mac 26S. Nice starter boat. Easy to trailer. Low cost to own. not super comfortable, but could sleep my family of 5.

 

[caguy]

I'd take a serious look at the Hunter 260. Great looking boat with lots of nice features.

 

[Benny17441]

There is no ideal boat to fit everybody. It just depends on the intended use for the vessel. Trailering distances and type of waters to be sailed may dictate the desirable design characteristics. There is usually a juggle between size, weight, type of ballast to provide different degrees of comfort, stability and ease of setup and trailering to accomodate most sailors. Some designs do a very good in some areas and other designs perform well in others but basically all are based on compromise. For me the best characteristic of a trailerable boat is that it can allow me to enjoy a couple of 10-15 day trips a year to distant sailing venues. We have done the Long Island Sound, the Chesapeake Bay, the Outer Banks, Great Lakes and others. Our trailerable is a 1985 Starwind 223 with a short fixed keel centerboard combo. Sleeps 4, has a single burner stove and a porta potty. It can take some brisk coastal weather and is fairly fast.

 

[dlandersson]

I'm six feet and I stand in the cabin with no trouble.

No such sailboat exists to my knowledge.

If you raise your price points to 130,000 to 200,000 dollars, there are choices.

The extensive wood below is one area where you are going to have to raise your budget.

In your budget, look at MacGregor and Hunter. I believe Hunter dropped the water ballast. Macs only come in power boat versions now, that do double duty. Sail one minute, pull a skier the next minute. Also cuts down on time dead heading to a remote location to sail with friends.

The Mac is pretty spartan with a plastic look. It does have an enclosed head and pretty average head room, if you are an average 11 year old, you can stand up in the cabin. Lol

 

[centerline]

Thanks for all the replies. Perhaps I did not made myself clear enough.

- This is why I believe having hybrid with fixed-ballast/water ballast might be a solution to bring the trailerable weight down. Or, how about removable ballast?? Maybe steel bricks that are about 80lbs each and can be removed for towing?

water ballasted boats are common and the ballast is removable, but what would be the point of having removable "brick" ballast?... .
where would you carry it? in the tow vehicle or stowed on the trailer? maybe in a second vehicle?
it ultimately NEEDS to be in the boat so why not leave it there to begin with?
I could see if it was a heavy displacement vessel that was being moved by trailer, but when we talk about trailerable boats, we are generally referring to boats that lend themselves to being daysailed from a trailer fairly easy.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Bosman;

the advice on bricks is not being recommended on small boats for removal prior to traveling is well advised. First, taking the bricks out is a hassel not to mention if you drop one in the boat/ damage. Secondly, you want those brick permanently secured so they will not shift while sailing. Finally, you could injur your back. Nix on that idea.

/water ballast/swing keel/ shoal keel is what to llook at for an ideal boat which is why Hunter listened to me when I showed them drawings what eventually became the Hunter 23.5

If your plan is to go under bridges, low briding for example a clearance of 15 feet, there is more to it than say a 25 clearance for example the railroad bridge over Aquia Creek in Virginia. You have to think about removing the boom altogether under real low bridges. You may want to stay away from areas with low briding as they are not conducive to sailing which is why you pre plan your trips.

crazy dave

 

[Bosman]

Water ballast has its biggest weakness in the fact it does not work until it is above to waterline, thus making the boat very tender untill higher heel degree is achieved. While this can be counteracted partially by hull lines, solid ballast will work right from the start making the boat stiffer.
Removable solid ballast would have following advantages (I am assuming design would incorporate means of attaching the steel/lead bricks securely in the vessel):
- less towing weight allowing use of SUV/Van as opposed larger vehicle
- lower trailer cost
- ability to fine balance the boat in the water

Disadvantages:
- I agree with Crazy dave in terms of injury, but sailing itself is dangerous in the first place. There is no idiot-proof design, masts do fall down, heads do get smacked by booms etc. If, for me, having a removable ballast and being able to tow/launch my boat with SUV vs buying full-size truck I go with removable ballast. Let me emphisize this is my opinion only.

Because such systems are rarely seen in North America, it does not mean they do not exist.
Low bridges:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlaqi_IIZf8

You can see on 0:36 how easily mast comes down with proper lowering system.

Another good video (little long but worth watching) shot onboard TES 32 Dreamer. One can see how many times a spar needs to be lowered in some areas.
2:26 Floating fish and chips kiosk - awesome idea!!!
2:39 beaching the boat for the night
4:06 Going through a water lock
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxlhBq1D25Q

Couple of boats I have found on this side of the pond that almost perfectly fit my criteria in terms of features, styling and weight.

TES 720 BT
http://www.tes-yacht.ca/678Desc.html
Price: CAD $46000 = approx US $45910 with trailer/outboard
Headroom 5'9"
Min draft: 12"
Weight: from 3300 lbs

Benneatu First 25S

http://www.beneteau.com/Sailing-Yachts/First/First-25-S
Price: € 41,300 = approx US $52500 boat only
Headroom: 5'10"
Min draft: 2'9"
Weight 4739 lbs

Another couple of boats that I found, regretfully private importation would be required.

Phobos 25

Price: US $48253, don't know if its for a boat only or a package
Headroom: 5'10"
Min draft: 13.5"
Weight: 4620 lbs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ-_nge5-lA&feature=relmfu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6A2Vv9qtJ0&feature=related

Janmor 25 (my personal fauvorite out of four)
Price: US $29230, no trailer or outboard motor
Headroom: 5'7"
Min draft: 12"
Weight: from 3630 lbs

 

[Bosman]

Here is a website from Italy, they have a nice selections of smaller boats from 21ft +
http://www.northeaster.it/index.php/vela

 

[Bosman]

If your plan is to go under bridges, low briding for example a clearance of 15 feet, there is more to it than say a 25 clearance for example the railroad bridge over Aquia Creek in Virginia. You have to think about removing the boom altogether under real low bridges. You may want to stay away from areas with low briding as they are not conducive to sailing which is why you pre plan your trips.

Where I sail, I have no choice. I do have a train bridge on the way to the nicer part of the lake. Not only is it low, it is also narrow. The biggest danger, however, are the speedboats, which sometimes go through at speeds approaching Mach1. Unfortunately, there is no cure for stupidity of some people. Majority of boat owners go through the narrows at slow pace, thankfully.

 

[Fly_H23]

My perfect boat is along the lines of the Nimble Kodiak by Ted Brewer.

I'd want a shallower draft for skinny water and trailering maybe a crank up/down keel like the Mega 30 had. Here is a decent look. Used ones seem scarcely available for $15-35k

http://www.nimbleboat.net/boats.asp

 

[philwsailz]

Water ballast has its biggest weakness in the fact it does not work until it is above to waterline, thus making the boat very tender untill higher heel degree is achieved.

?????

I would argue this. but I won't. BEAUTIFUL boats by the way that you bring up as examples!!!!!! Love the Phobos and the Janmor!!!!

Thanks for sharing!

 

[sesmith]

I vote for the Seaward 26rk. The sewards are beautiful and seem very seaworthy.
I used to sail a Mac 26S. Nice starter boat. Easy to trailer. Low cost to own. not super comfortable, but could sleep my family of 5.

Ditto on the seaward. I like its more classic lines than some of the other boats pictured above.

Exterior pics:

http://www.seawardyachts.com/26rkextpics.html

Interior pics:

http://www.seawardyachts.com/26rk-interior.html