Just Bought My First Boat - About to Give it to a Scrapyard

David W · Sep 24, 2024

What a shame.
When I had my Crown 34, the surveyor said there were blisters and then my insurance company said I had to get them fixed before they would insure it.
I wrote the insurance company a stern letter telling them there is zero evidence that blisters would ever cause a structural integrity problem that would result in an insurance claim. Told them that I would be happy to fix them if they could provide documented proof of unrepaired blisters causing an insurance claim.
Never heard from them and they insured the boat.

Re the costs you are quoting: someone is absolutely ripping you off.

dmax · Sep 24, 2024

Can you part it out yourself before giving it to the scrapyard? You should at least get some money for the lead keel. Deck hardware, mast, rudder, pedestal, cushions, engine, sails all have value. These should all be in decent shape on a $20,000 boat.

Richard19068 · Sep 24, 2024

Wow. What a tragic outcome. So frustrating. Assuming this is the boat in the attached listing at Westport Yacht Sales in Sidney the pictures make it look like a good boat. It's unbelievable that the people who brokered the deal provided such little help and guidance. It certainly looks like you have had the runaround.

I get that you may be "done" at this point but I would think that short of scrapping it you might be able to find somebody who would be willing to buy it from you at a firesale price. Hate to see it go to landfill and maybe you could recover some of your costs more easily than parting it out.

Good luck

30' Catalina - Thunderbird Marine

thunderbirdyachtsales.com

BigEasy · Sep 24, 2024

aftica_1 said:
I think its time for me to throw in the towel.
I bought the boat for $20,000, have spent nearly $10,000 trying to get this thing painted and with no help available I just can't continue. Its going to cost me another $10,000 to $15,000 to do it myself all costs factored in.

I think you are overwhelmed with people trying to take advantage of your situation. Move the boat (in present condition) to an affordable "do it yourself" boat yard in close proximity to your home. Grind out the large blisters with a Dremmel tool, wash out the blisters thoroughly with detergent & allow them to dry. Clean the blistered site with acetone and coat the depression with Interluxe 2000 epoxy. Fill the depression with 3M premium marine filler & fair a couple times. Rough sand (lightly) with 80 grit paper to enhance adhesion of the barrier coat. Wash the hull and barrier coat with three rolled coats of 2000 epoxy. Finally, roll on 2 coats of antifouling paint.

Materials Required:
3 gallons interluxe 2000 ~ $500
1-2 quarts filler ~ 200
2 gallons bottom paint ~ 400
rollers, brushes, acetone
sand paper, dust masks,
paint mask, tape, etc. ~ 400
----------
Materials Total $1500

So, If it takes 3 months for you to complete the job, you have a usable boat for approximately $5000 in repair costs. On future haulouts treat additional blisters on as needed basis in same manner. Based on your photos, it would be a travesty to scrap that boat. You might have to get your hands dirty; however, this job is not a highly technical job that requires high levels of skill. Hope it all works out well.

dLj · Sep 24, 2024

aftica_1 said:
That doesn't sound too bad, and if the boat was closer I wouldn't mind doing the work myself. Think this boat could make it to Vancouver with exposed fiberglass and an inexperienced pilot who has never sailed solo yet? (I've always been with family before I bought this boat. I was hoping to learn with them and official lessons, but if I'm crossing the Salish Sea I'd have to do it solo).

What condition is the engine in?

You do not have a problem for a trip like that just putting the boat in the water and sailing it over to where you need it to be, pull it out and then begin the process of repairing the blisters. Osmosis is a long term slow process.

dj

David W · Sep 24, 2024

aftica_1 said:
I called them again today and asked if they can just seal the blisters that are already open, ignore the rest (maybe throw some paint on it too) and they said it wasn't an issue with the timing or price, they just said they run a business and their reputation would be tarnished if they just did a repair like that. What does that even mean?

It means they are trying to bleed you for money. There is ZERO safety issue here. If you wanted the boat painted orange with blue polka dots, it's your boat, your money and they should do it. (sorry but some marine service people drive me insane, apologies to any professional marine service people here).
There are literally thousands of boats on the water with blisters, and I guarantee you that that yard has painted some of them. The barrel they have you over is that you can't get insurance and that means you can't put it back at Marina Park Marina because I expect they require insurance for all boats on their dock.
Is there no yard in Sidney that lets you paint yourself anymore?
An option if you can't get insurance is to lease a mooring ball in Tsehum harbour.
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Another option is to hire/find someone to help you get it back to Vancouver which I assume is where it eventually will be?

David W · Sep 24, 2024

aftica_1 said:
It did seem like a weird reason. They haven't been paid by me yet, they just said that if I soda blasted the hull for them (the hull was covered in years of bottom paint that was flaking off), painting it wouldn't be a problem unless something catastrophic was found on the hull - and I don't think blisters are catastrophic, yet that was enough to back out entirely after I had already blasted it for them.

Luckily I do have insurance, I've just been trying to keep it as it has a warranty that the insurance becomes void if all of the survey recommendations are not completed within 30 days (the bottom paint being one of the recommendations). The insurance also doesn't allow me to use mooring buoys oddly enough.

I do want to keep the boat at Marina Park Marina. My goal with the boat was to have a place to get away with the family and this marina is in a nice location. The wait for moorage in Vancouver is about 7-8 years as well (give or take a few years depending on the marina).

Are they requiring that the blisters be fixed and bottom painted or just that the bottom paint be done?
If it's the latter then surely there must be a yard that allows DIY bottom painting.

David W · Sep 24, 2024

I think this is a two weekend job at most.
I’d do the bare minimum to fill the blisters, @BigEasy had good advice. Seal it up, get paint on it and splash it. I would not go bananas trying to make it smooth like a baby's bottom.
I think the soda blasting was a good idea. Let's you start fresh with bottom paint of bare glass/gelcoat.

Richard19068 · Sep 24, 2024

aftica_1 said:
The insurance only requires the paint

The yard I am at does allow DIY bottom painting, I could do that over a weekend no problem, but I couldn't do that with the flaky old bottom paint (I showed up a few weekends ago with paint gear in hand, but on the way was told by multiple people to stop), hence why soda blasting seemed to make sense (especially if the boat yard's services seemed keen on the idea of painting if I blasted it for them).

However, now that I have to repair these blisters its going to take multiple weekends of trips over because there are many more steps involved now and I have to work during the week in Vancouver. It also looks like a lot of the initial steps are weather dependent.

I was really hoping to just have someone slap some paint on the bottom after I bought the boat, I really didn't think this would be as difficult as it turned out to be. I guess I'm learning the hard way.

So you soda blasted it and the yard does allow you to paint it yourself.
You are a busy guy. Do the blisters penetrate the hull or even come close? If not, how about forgetting the blisters, wipe down the hull, put on a couple of coats of barrier and a couple of coats of paint (you might be able to do this in one weekend), tell the insurance company it is painted, put it in the water and worry about it next summer. Or the summer after that. If the blisters get worse you are then no worse off than you are now and you will have had some fun on the boat.

Just my two cents. Not meant to confuse you any more than you may already be.

David W · Sep 24, 2024

@Richard19068 is spot on!

marcham · Sep 24, 2024

Take a week of vacation? It's already on the hard and dry, ready for blister repair and paint. No more than 4-5 days of work now that it's prepped (yes, there's drying time in there...). Start on Sunday and splash on Friday?

Kings Gambit · Sep 25, 2024

David W said:
It means they are trying to bleed you for money. There is ZERO safety issue here. If you wanted the boat painted orange with blue polka dots, it's your boat, your money and they should do it. (sorry but some marine service people drive me insane, apologies to any professional marine service people here).
There are literally thousands of boats on the water with blisters, and I guarantee you that that yard has painted some of them. The barrel they have you over is that you can't get insurance and that means you can't put it back at Marina Park Marina because I expect they require insurance for all boats on their dock.
Is there no yard in Sidney that lets you paint yourself anymore?
An option if you can't get insurance is to lease a mooring ball in Tsehum harbour.
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Another option is to hire/find someone to help you get it back to Vancouver which I assume is where it eventually will be?

I doubt the yard is trying to bleed you for money, as if its business model included mistreating its customers. Basically, yards are expensive places to have the boat. If you’re on the hard (not storage) and the yard is not working on your boat you usually get a day (i.e., lay day) charge every day, which is related to the length of the boat. If you wish to stop the lay day charge get the yard working on the bottom, etc. (If you are working on it, you might still get the charge.)

I sympathize with your plight. It’s tough to navigate in the world of maritime business when most of our early experience is with automobiles. People will advise you on matters on which they have no direct experience. The blind leading the blind, so to speak.

You cannot, IMO, find the best course without a reliable (thorough) assessment of what you are facing. Since mounting costs are an issue it might beyond reason to attempt to backtrack. Personally, I would have questioned the insurance company’s requirement to paint the bottom for a one-year policy. They are “mindlessly” following a surveyor’s report which is ultimately directed to you unless the insurer ordered the survey. The surveyor is telling YOU that you should paint the bottom, which means that the bottom needs to be painted. But, does that impact the seaworthiness of the vessel in the near term of a one-year policy? No. As we have said. I expect that if you questioned it some neophyte agent might tell you “well, that’s what the underwriters require.” But is it true? Do they absolutely?, or is that some CYA or ignorant statement of the ins broker or assistant?

The cheapest course of first action would have been to negotiate that point with your ins agent, etc. You might have gotten a statement from the surveyor that the condition of the bottom is presently not a matter of concern re: the vessel’s seaworthiness, or not a critical finding, etc., but RECOMMEND bottom treatment soon. I know this is not helpful now.

marcham · Sep 25, 2024

Good point. Usually, the insurance picks up on the mandatory / safety items from the survey and provides coverage subject to them being rectified in 30-90 days. If you only have 30 days, that can be extended. They don't care about the cosmetic items. That being said, we haven't seen the survey and don't know what condition the bottom was in.

The part I don't understand is the owner is not allowed to do their own work? I've never come across this, unless the person doing the work was not adhering to yard policies (dust, tarps, pollution, etc....).

I still vote for splash the boat and take it up on the hard in Vancouver closer to home.... (yard fees won't be cheap there either, but at least you can go home at night!).

David W · Sep 25, 2024

marcham said:
Good point. Usually, the insurance picks up on the mandatory / safety items from the survey and provides coverage subject to them being rectified in 30-90 days. If you only have 30 days, that can be extended. They don't care about the cosmetic items. That being said, we haven't seen the survey and don't know what condition the bottom was in.

The part I don't understand is the owner is not allowed to do their own work? I've never come across this, unless the person doing the work was not adhering to yard policies (dust, tarps, pollution, etc....).

I still vote for splash the boat and take it up on the hard in Vancouver closer to home.... (yard fees won't be cheap there either, but at least you can go home at night!).

In post #70 the OP clarified that they can do their own paint.

Kings Gambit · Sep 25, 2024

Discussion came across as an urgency to get the work done in 30 days for insurance. No insurance, no slip in a marina; i.e., no home for the boat at regular slip tenant rates while working out the details/planning for the bottom work if actually a “legitimate stipulation” for coverage. My point: paint possibly not a “legitimate stipulation” on industry standards for a policy; thus, no need for urgency, ergo more time to sort out recommendations/advise for work, no need to incur excessive costs in pursuit of quick action, etc. Forgive me if I have this wrong.

Ward H · Sep 25, 2024

I agree with Richard19068. Slap some paint on it and move it to where you plan to keep it. Enjoy the boat while you recover financially and mentally. When you're ready and have the time and money you can do a better job on the hull.

My marina also will not do a half **s job. Last season I was short on time and asked them to give the hull a quick wax. They said no. They either do the whole thing the right way or pass on the job. The same with bottom paint. They have a very good reputation and do not want to risk that by doing things half **s. They either do it the proper or don't do it.

BigEasy · Sep 25, 2024

Ward H said:
They have a very good reputation and do not want to risk that by doing things half **s. They either do it the proper or don't do it.

I can certainly appreciate that perspective. Doesn't necessarily mean that they are trying to rip you off.