Thanks, Luke. I guess that makes sense. I'll definitely buy another gallon. That'll at least get me through sealing the cast iron, and I can consider options (and ask more questions) after that.
Restoration of 1981 C-22 swing keel #10580
- Thread starter CloudDiver
- Start date
@AaronD , continuing;
- Stingy and I both used West System Epoxy for the majority of the work. Stingy did use another fiber reinforced filler but I believe it was vinyl-ester, not polyester. I couldn't find specifics on the company webpage but it does claim to be 100% waterproof. From the mixing process of the hardener I can tell it is not epoxy. Anyway, I only used WEST epoxy and the various fillers, but I know @StingySailor is very meticulous about product selection.
- Sand Blasting is the way to go for sure. Just be set up to (have a hoist of some kind) to pick it up, put in truck, hang for epoxy/painting etc. Be ready to work fast and get the first sealer coats on as soon as it is blasted. Use acetone or denatured alcohol to rinse it down, there will be lots of dust and the solvents will displace any surface moisture.
- I used three types of fillers... High density micro fibers, Colloidal Silica, and Low Density Fairing filler. In the order listed they are difficult, medium, and easy to sand. I only used the high density micro fibers where serious chunks were missing (around the keel pin) backed up with fiberglass. The colloidal silica I used to fill the majority of small pockets, divots, and pinholes that raw epoxy would not fill. the low density fairing filler (red) I only used for final fairing, it is the weakest of the fillers and you don't want it going on too thick.
- I didn't use the same fairing process to restore the NACA profile that Stingy and a few others did. I long boarded the keel according to 'what was there' and got pretty fair results without tons of filler. I just don't think that there will be considerable performance gains in a boat that tops out at 7 knots downwind surfing a wave.
- Stingy and I both used West System Epoxy for the majority of the work. Stingy did use another fiber reinforced filler but I believe it was vinyl-ester, not polyester. I couldn't find specifics on the company webpage but it does claim to be 100% waterproof. From the mixing process of the hardener I can tell it is not epoxy. Anyway, I only used WEST epoxy and the various fillers, but I know @StingySailor is very meticulous about product selection.
- Stingy and I both used West System Epoxy for the majority of the work. Stingy did use another fiber reinforced filler but I believe it was vinyl-ester, not polyester. I couldn't find specifics on the company webpage but it does claim to be 100% waterproof. From the mixing process of the hardener I can tell it is not epoxy. Anyway, I only used WEST epoxy and the various fillers, but I know @StingySailor is very meticulous about product selection.
- Sand Blasting is the way to go for sure. Just be set up to (have a hoist of some kind) to pick it up, put in truck, hang for epoxy/painting etc. Be ready to work fast and get the first sealer coats on as soon as it is blasted. Use acetone or denatured alcohol to rinse it down, there will be lots of dust and the solvents will displace any surface moisture.
- I used three types of fillers... High density micro fibers, Colloidal Silica, and Low Density Fairing filler. In the order listed they are difficult, medium, and easy to sand. I only used the high density micro fibers where serious chunks were missing (around the keel pin) backed up with fiberglass. The colloidal silica I used to fill the majority of small pockets, divots, and pinholes that raw epoxy would not fill. the low density fairing filler (red) I only used for final fairing, it is the weakest of the fillers and you don't want it going on too thick.
- I didn't use the same fairing process to restore the NACA profile that Stingy and a few others did. I long boarded the keel according to 'what was there' and got pretty fair results without tons of filler. I just don't think that there will be considerable performance gains in a boat that tops out at 7 knots downwind surfing a wave.
One other thing I will throw in.... The first two coats of epoxy after sand blasting are critical to seal the keel, but I believe the third coat is most important of all. All of these coats need to be 'hot coated', right after one coats kicks off and gets tacky the next coat goes on to get a chemical bond and before any amine blush forms. After the second coat of plain resin your third coat should be thickened with colloidal silica to peanut butter. This coat is applied with a plastic putty knife and only used to fill major defects, divots, and holes. Only mix up a small batch to do this, you don't have to knife the whole surface.
Hot coating these first three steps is important because you basically cannot sand in between any of these coats until the holes are filled. Once you do these three coats you have sealed the keel fully and bought yourself some breathing room. You can let the keel hang and cure and go back to it later. After you recover from that first flurry of hot coats you and wipe down the amine blush (alcohol on a rag works best for me) and sand with 80 grit on an orbital. From there you can plan your remaining filling/fairing/sealing strategy and take things slowly, one step at a time.
Hot coating these first three steps is important because you basically cannot sand in between any of these coats until the holes are filled. Once you do these three coats you have sealed the keel fully and bought yourself some breathing room. You can let the keel hang and cure and go back to it later. After you recover from that first flurry of hot coats you and wipe down the amine blush (alcohol on a rag works best for me) and sand with 80 grit on an orbital. From there you can plan your remaining filling/fairing/sealing strategy and take things slowly, one step at a time.
As always, great information - thanks for all the details. I knew about the importance of hot coating ASAP after sandblasting (and I'm working on a hoist system). But I hadn't thought about the importance of the 3rd coat with filler - that you can't sand within a hole, so you have to get the pits and holes filled while you can still get a chemical bond. No wonder everyone says the first day of this process is a painfully long one!
Wow what a great thread, I found it and just finished it. This is a labor of love for sure. I was wondering was the paint rolled on? The finish in pictures looks very glossy, my old O'Day is in pretty good shape I'd love to do the exterior paint next winter or even the topside while in the water during a hot / dry summer stretch in Alabama.
Interlux Brightsides. Roll with a fine foam roller and tip with a high quality badger hair brush. The brush costs about $20 but if you keep it clean it can be used over and over.
Also use the Brightsides primer called Pre-Kote. You can't see it in my pics, but I didn't sand quite enough and there are some brush strokes that came through from the primer layer. Hand sanding with 220 does the job very well. Overall I'm happy with the way it looks from 6 feet away but up close you can see some brush strokes. If I could do it again I would do 3 coats of primer back to back, rolling and tipping. The foam roller puts on a very fine layer and it dries enough to overcoat pretty quick in fair weather (15 to 30 min). Only sand with 220 after letting the three coats cure overnight. Looking down the hull by eye you can see shadows if there are any brush strokes, water helps in sighting as well.
Hey CloudDiver... I was directed to your forum thread by another helpful user. Many thanks the detailed and inspirational thread that you have taken the effort to produce so that the likes of me can read and learn.
I do have one question though... or two!
Did you remove the gelcoat from inside the keelbox... and if yes =How?
I did see your post on sanding off the bottom paint inside the keel box but could not see anything on gelcoat removal.
Rgrds, Greg
I do have one question though... or two!
Did you remove the gelcoat from inside the keelbox... and if yes =How?
I did see your post on sanding off the bottom paint inside the keel box but could not see anything on gelcoat removal.
Rgrds, Greg
Greg, thanks. I'm glad my thread was able to help you. No, I didn't sand off the gelcoat from inside the keel box. Like you said, I did get off all the old bottom pain and even that was a nightmare. You have to have a thin forearm to reach in there and its mostly a by hand sanding job. There are some creative tools that you can make from scrap wood or other left over material that will help with this mechanical process, be creative.
There really is no need to fully remove the gelcoat, as long as you get a good sanding with 80 grit to get it clean and prepped. There is no need to remove the gelcoat from the majority of the bottom like I did, I was dealing with blisters and wanted to epoxy the bottom (but that is a different topic).
In general, sand the inside of keel box as best you can to slightly above the waterline. There is no need to the very to portion where it curves, no one can really reach that far anyway. Just get all the old paint off and wipe down with acetone or denature alcohol as much as possible. You can get the barrier coat on with a small foam roller, same with the bottom paint. With a foam roller on an 18 inch handle I was able to roll the paint all the way up the flat sides practically to the top which is well above the water line.
Thanks the reply.
The PO sent the boat to an auto paint repair shop and all they did was spray a thick layer of polyester based high build filler/primer over the original issue to the point where as I sanded it off I could still see the years of dirt under it!
The paint was cracking and showing bubbling... thats why I started with the idea of - oh just a quick sand down, primer and paint - job done over a couple of weekends. Oh boy, that was now nearly a year ago. Once exposed I saw I do have serious bubble issues in the below water line gel coat to the point where you can knock off the bubbles with a scraper. That just removes the top crusty part but does not take away the underlying rotten mess in the hole left behind
I have already done what you did, built a roll over frame, rolled the hull upside down, go right back to bare fibreglass but I removed the waterline boot stripe gel coat as well because the bubbles were about halfway up the water line boot stripe. The original builder gel coated the boot stripe into the mould and then gelcoated over the line so in that area there was actually two layers of gel coat. I have also covered the complete hul with glass fabric and epoxy. I still have to fair the valleys of the water line!
Kinda wish now I had not ignored the keel box when I first started.
The PO sent the boat to an auto paint repair shop and all they did was spray a thick layer of polyester based high build filler/primer over the original issue to the point where as I sanded it off I could still see the years of dirt under it!
The paint was cracking and showing bubbling... thats why I started with the idea of - oh just a quick sand down, primer and paint - job done over a couple of weekends
. Oh boy, that was now nearly a year ago. Once exposed I saw I do have serious bubble issues in the below water line gel coat to the point where you can knock off the bubbles with a scraper. That just removes the top crusty part but does not take away the underlying rotten mess in the hole left behind I have already done what you did, built a roll over frame, rolled the hull upside down, go right back to bare fibreglass but I removed the waterline boot stripe gel coat as well because the bubbles were about halfway up the water line boot stripe. The original builder gel coated the boot stripe into the mould and then gelcoated over the line so in that area there was actually two layers of gel coat. I have also covered the complete hul with glass fabric and epoxy. I still have to fair the valleys of the water line!
Kinda wish now I had not ignored the keel box when I first started.
Happy Memorial Day weekend everyone. I hope many of you are out sailing or other wising enjoying some leisure. My weekend is dedicate to writing my final term papers for graduate school, the good news being that this is it... these are my last assignments for my last two classes and I will be graduating on June 17. So finally my spare time will no longer be dominated by looming dark cloud of homework. After this weekend I can finally dedicate the time to getting the final projects done to get this C22 in the water. Work has slowed to crawl since my trip to South Africa last November, but here are some small bits of things I have accomplished in that time. See next posts for pics...
This a Hypalon Achilles inflatable I picked up that came with a Suzuki DF6 standard shaft. The motor was in great condition and I paid less for both than I would have for just the 6hp motor new. The big thing was that the Achilles is an air floor, my other Zodiac is a plywood floor. The Achilles needed some cleaning up and to small pinhole patches. The transom wasn't horrible but there were too many holes not properly bedded so I removed all the hardware and sanded down. Filled all holes with epoxy and re-drilled, epoxy sealed, sanded again, then barrier coat with Interlux Interprotect 2000 (doing my kick-up rudder at the same time to use up a 1 quart kit). I painted the transom and the detachable seat with the leftover grey bright sides. Now I just have to re-install the transom hardware with 3M 4000 caulk for bedding of the hardware. She'll be seaworthy soon.
This is from several weeks ago, but I finally got the bow pulpit bedded and bolted back down. I have since trimmed off the oozing butyl tape after I let it squeeze out over several days.
I have decided that I will most likely re-install my life-line stanchions and make synthetic lifelines. I was going to leave them off for a less cluttered appearance, but in retrospect I need them for routing the fuller line... plus, why forego safety for looking pretty? So I dug up the old, worn out, rusty life lines and cut off the pelican hooks. I had to soak them in PB Blaster so the rust in the stud threads would let go without damaging the pelican hook threads. When using synthetic lifelines you don't really need pelican hooks but I think they might come in handy for the convenience of opening the line at port and starboard cock-pit entry. I can rig the lines to use them or to just use lashings. Either way, I wanted to clean up the pelican hooks to use them or sell them. I soaked them in my magic phosphoric acid solution to get rid of rust and oxidation.
This is the before pic, LOL... I guess I didn't snap an 'after' shot but thats an easy fix.
This is the before pic, LOL... I guess I didn't snap an 'after' shot but thats an easy fix.
I'll be interested to see how you rig those lifelines. I was planning to use synthetics on the Albin Vega.
Gene, I found a few sources to buy Dyneema at much cheaper prices per foot than most online chandleries. I will share those sources when I get around to buying the roughly 50 feet I'll need for the two sides. I plan on using NE Ropes WR2 which is a 12 strand core inside a Dyneema chafe sleeve. Not sure about the pelican hooks yet, they can be set up with some simple stainless thimbles and lashing for tension.
BTW, I have to make a trip to the second hand yacht supply store up in Orange County. One of my aft stanchions sits at an outboard angle of say 3 to 5 degrees, the other is vertical. The outward lean makes more walk through room, and if they don't match my OCD will never let me forget it.
BTW, I have to make a trip to the second hand yacht supply store up in Orange County. One of my aft stanchions sits at an outboard angle of say 3 to 5 degrees, the other is vertical. The outward lean makes more walk through room, and if they don't match my OCD will never let me forget it.
Hi CloudDiver
Could you perhaps post the dimensions of your mast support post that you fabricated out of stainless steel tube?
I'm specifically looking for the overall length of the completed post.
I'm planning the same idea using aluminium though but my boats original mast support post got "lost".
Rgrds
Could you perhaps post the dimensions of your mast support post that you fabricated out of stainless steel tube?
I'm specifically looking for the overall length of the completed post.
I'm planning the same idea using aluminium though but my boats original mast support post got "lost".
Rgrds
I have a bunch of update photos to post, but something is going on with PhotoBucket. I cannot log in from my iPhone where I first download my pics from the phone to my account, then post here. As soon as I get it sorted out I'll start posting again... bummer.