Was I lucky or what? Forestay failure!

Jan 11, 2014
14,128
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Actually installing the new rigging is a DIY job. Box up the old rigging send it out and have it duplicated. The only issue may be the forestay, because the current forestay is integrated with the fuller. In that case your suggestion of ordering it long and using a Sta-lock would work.

I've used Rigging Only several times to replace rigging. They do good work at a fair price with a pretty quick turn around time.

 
Jan 1, 2006
8,072
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
I put the new stem piece in today and it seems to fit perfectly. ...
Good on your fabricated. Out of curiosity did they bend the SS stock? Is there a concern about work hardening? When installing I have some question about torquing the strap down if it's not a passive fit?
 
Jan 7, 2011
5,989
Oday 322 East Chicago, IN
Murphy's Law corollary is that while up the mast a dropped wench will break the Binnacle Compass before falling overboard. At least you were spared that. But you were flirting with the esteemed Murphy.
When I was putting the new chain plate on today, which required the removal of 6 bolts in the anchor roller, I opened a big golf umbrella, turned it upside down and tied it below the anchor roller! Hoped it would catch whatever I dropped !

Greg
 
Jan 7, 2011
5,989
Oday 322 East Chicago, IN
Actually installing the new rigging is a DIY job. Box up the old rigging send it out and have it duplicated. The only issue may be the forestay, because the current forestay is integrated with the fuller. In that case your suggestion of ordering it long and using a Sta-lock would work.

I've used Rigging Only several times to replace rigging. They do good work at a fair price with a pretty quick turn around time.

Good to hear a positive comment about Rigging Only…they see,m to have the best price on a Profurl unit.

thanks,

Greg
 
Sep 24, 2018
4,652
Catalina 30 MKIII Chicago
D&R was more reasonable than local riggers for my O'Day as they build in quantity. Chicago Marine rigging met me halfway. Don's customer service is top notch

If memory serves me correctly, @Maine Sail has an article or two on terminating VHF connectors. I ended up doing mine with a butane soldering iron as it was the only thing I could get on short notice before launch
 
Jan 7, 2011
5,989
Oday 322 East Chicago, IN
Good on your fabricated. Out of curiosity did they bend the SS stock? Is there a concern about work hardening? When installing I have some question about torquing the strap down if it's not a passive fit?
They did bend it. I don’t know about work hardening, but there some tool marks at the bends. The old one looked very similar (same tool marks).

I am going to try to send the old parts to @dLj for analysis. Not sure how helpful it will be, but work getting a close up of the break.

But the old one lasted 38 years. I will be dead before it fails the next time ( well, I won’t be sailing anyway).

And now that I know this could be a weak point in the rigging, it will get inspected regularly.

Greg
 

dLj

.
Mar 23, 2017
5,158
Belliure 41 Back in the Chesapeake
They did bend it. I don’t know about work hardening, but there some tool marks at the bends. The old one looked very similar (same tool marks).

I am going to try to send the old parts to @dLj for analysis. Not sure how helpful it will be, but work getting a close up of the break.

But the old one lasted 38 years. I will be dead before it fails the next time ( well, I won’t be sailing anyway).

And now that I know this could be a weak point in the rigging, it will get inspected regularly.

Greg
I look forward to getting the parts. I'll give a report back once I get them and see what the best way to manage this design moving forward may be.

The bending of the new part caused a crease along the tension side of the part - Greg sent me pictures. That bend should have been done using a radius mandrel. Apparently the old part has this same crease from original manufacture. Looks like it's the likely cause but I'll know more once I take a look at the actual part that broke.

dj
 

dLj

.
Mar 23, 2017
5,158
Belliure 41 Back in the Chesapeake
Hope you (or someone) did a mirror polish on the new SS part.
Not at this point but Greg could still get it polished if he wants to. When I get the old parts I'll look to see what kind of finish the original had - that potentially could be another aspect of the breakage.

dj
 
Jun 25, 2004
620
Hunter 306 Pasadena MD
I'm a bit late to the commenting party here, but as many have said: good job dealing with the emergency, Greg! I also appreciate it when people risk drawing negative comments by posting about a problem, for the benefit of helping out their fellow sailors.

You may recall that I had my standing rigging and all electrical wiring/fixtures replaced this spring by a professional rigger in Annapolis. I chose not to attempt it myself mainly because my mast has never been down before (22 years), our yard crew (while great guys) don't seem competent to do this, and I've never seen it done in person so I wouldn't know how to direct them. In the mid-Atlantic where I am, few people drop the mast and almost no one does it every winter, unlike in some yards up North.

I liked the riggers I used, but I have to admit that I didn't explicitly ask them to check the stem fitting or chainplates. Maybe they did and maybe they didn't. I'll have a close look at the stem fitting, but I'm going to guess that it might be hard to see a fine crack in the SS when hunched over the bow: a 43 year-old engineering degree hardly makes me an expert in metallurgy. (On the other hand, I've probably bent hundreds of metal things back and forth until they broke, so maybe I _am_ an expert! At breaking things...) My chainplates are 90% external, so that's a good thing.

A comment on the VHF cable soldering: I had my cable and antenna replaced by the riggers, and this was the only thing about the re-rig that didn't go smoothly. When they were done re-stepping the mast and tuning the rig, and were packing up, it occurred to me to test the VHF radio. No signal whatsoever. I told them about it, and the lead guy was a little grumpy about it at first. But I told him it had worked perfectly last fall before unstepping the mast, so it needed to work now. They said they'd check that there was continuity between the cable end fitting at the base of the mast, and the antenna at the top, but the parts inside the boat were up to me. No complaints after that, but it took them like an extra hour and a half to figure out the problem. It really gave them fits. The owner of the rigging company ended up calling an electrician friend for advice. They sent a guy up the mast, and he sat up there for more than an hour as they did test after test, and re-soldered the connections. Finally, it tested good and the radio worked perfectly. I believe the problem was the solder joint up at the masthead, so my take on this is that these guys do this all the time, and it seems like it's not necessarily all that easy. I'm good at soldering circuit boards (built a Heathkit TV, oscilloscope, and multimeter back in the 70's), but I've never done coax, so I have no insight into how it's done and what can go wrong. The riggers used a butane torch up on the mast to do it.
 
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Jan 7, 2011
5,989
Oday 322 East Chicago, IN
Hey Jay,

thanks for the comments. My marina doesn’t normally pull mast either, but in talking to them, their forklift is plenty tall to pull the mast with the boat in the water. I have never done it either, but my spar is fairly short so I decided to give it a try. I had a few guys out to help me on the boat and the marina guy operated the big forklift (that they use to move in and out of the dry stack building).

This will a good chance to learn a lot about my rig, where things wear and how to inspect them…and hopefully I won’t have to drop the mast again as long as I own the boat. So while it is down, I will fix or replace as many things as I can.

Cheers,

Greg
 
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Jun 25, 2004
620
Hunter 306 Pasadena MD
Hey Jay,

thanks for the comments. My marina doesn’t normally pull mast either, but in talking to them, their forklift is plenty tall to pull the mast with the boat in the water. I have never done it either, but my spar is fairly short so I decided to give it a try. I had a few guys out to help me on the boat and the marina guy operated the big forklift (that they use to move in and out of the dry stack building).

This will a good chance to learn a lot about my rig, where things wear and how to inspect them…and hopefully I won’t have to drop the mast again as long as I own the boat. So while it is down, I will fix or replace as many things as I can.

Cheers,

Greg
I wouldn't say it's dangerous to do the rigging yourself: I just wasn't up to it. If I were doing it, I might try to test the wiring (VHF, lights, wind transducer) before stepping the mast. Maybe if you can lay the base of the mast next to the mast step and hook things up as a test, it would save you a trip up the mast. Good luck with it!

Regarding how many boats still have the original rigging, I'd guess it's more than 95% of all 20+ year-old boats. This is based on reading boat listings on yachtworld. Many boat listings don't mention anything, but when they do have a nice, careful list of recently replaced equipment with dates, it almost never includes the standing rigging. The listing for the 25 year old Catalina 380 I went to look at in VA last weekend didn't say anything about the rig (which was fine: I assumed it was original), but the broker told me the forestay had been replaced. This was an owner who apparently had the yard do things whenever they recommended something, and one year they had recommended the forestay. No idea if a professional rigger had ever looked the rig over. If I do buy a new (probably 20 year old) boat, I'll probably have the rig replaced in the first year.
 
Apr 8, 2010
2,247
Ericson Yachts Olson 34 28400 Portland OR
One bit of info about standing rigs -- there are industry standards, depending on venue and latitude for every sailing area. You can ask any professional rigger. For amateurs like me, about 20 years in a fresh water environment is a good max. I last had our standing rig replaced in 2021, and that was the third new rig on our '88 boat.
The comment about "listings" is spot on, and the other even more expensive "elephant in the room" is the required re-bedding of all deck fittings at the 25-to-30-year point. Key word is "all". I know of several boats in our YC that have done this besides us. It's the major reason that older sailboats depreciate to zero or negative numbers, and is totally preventable.
Of course having a mast go OB can be quite traumatic as well! I was crew on another boat where this happened at sea, and the memory is strongly imprinted! :)
 
Jan 7, 2011
5,989
Oday 322 East Chicago, IN
As an update, after getting some comments about the finish on my new bow chainplate, I took it back off the boat this morning to try and polish it up some. I have not found a local company that does polishing, and I have a very limited time to get the thing put back together...

So, in my basement workshop, I did the best I could with it... I will say that it is much easier on the hands, you cannot "feel" the mill finish, and the edges are less sharp than they were. It is certainly not a mirror finish, but I hope it is better than the original "mill finish" that it had when I picked it up. It makes me feel better knowing it is smoother, even if not polished to a mirror finish. If I can find someone to polish it in the next week, I will try to get it done... otherwise, this is as good as it gets.

IMG_6897.JPG IMG_6899.JPG IMG_6900.JPG

Hauling Tally Ho out on Wednesday now, and should get the mast stored beside the boat on some saw horses. Still haven't gotten an estimate from the rigger, but started making a list of all turn buckles, toggles and other fittings that will get replaced. I need to get the mast top off to see how the 2 shrouds attach INSIDE of the mast.

Greg