I am in deep trouble! Mayday!

[Stu Jackson]

Based on this quote from page 2, it appears to me that many of you may have some serious reading comprehension issues. Same thing for mentioning a trailer, which he says he doesn't have. C'mon.

Cut jd some slack, will ya, please. He's been very honest about the issue, many of us have given him specific pointers about the work involved.

His boat, his choice.

I have no intention of attempting this myself, I have already made enough mistakes here and need to feel confident that it is safe and repaired properly. Just really trying to get insight and information. I thought someone else on here may have dealt with something similar and could share their experience.

 

[rbringle]

The accident is unfortunate. However, the OP decided not to insure the boat's value, but only sought liability coverage. Thus, he decided before he put the boat in the water and used it that we would incur costs on minor repairs and incur a total loss from a catastrophic accident, which I think he had (but we have very limited information on that). He decided that his investment was not so great that it warranted full coverage. A gamble indeed, but one he specifically made. Repairs by the yard are most likely too expensive to justify them. Unless he can identify some sailors with extensive experience and maybe a helping hand and some time to assist him, these repairs most likely exceed his experience and competency. But, his call.

 

[Gunni]

OK, everyone down to the boat for some sailing!, time to get the stink blown off yas!

 

[Flying-J]

I am not sure if anyone mentioned this but there is a cost of not doing anything also. If it costs more to repair the keel than the boat is worth, you probably won't be able to give the boat away unless it is to someone with the know-how to repair the keel for less than the yard wants to do the work. If you want to bail out and start over there is a cost of disposing of the boat which might be significant. You need to factor that into the equation.

You are probably better off getting bids and options from other boat yards and just pay to have it fixed and then get some lessons and full coverage insurance.

 

[jimmcgee]

Damn guys !

JD, take a deep breath. I've run aground in a narrow channel. It's easy to do in a cross wind. You get distracted for a minute, forget to look back over your shoulder at the buoy you already passed and you're blown out of the channel that quick. It happens to everyone, you were just unlucky. Another important thing that may have gotten lost in the clutter is details like an underwater hazard may not be visible on your electronic charts unless you are zoomed in.

Now folks online can't see the damage and they don't know your skills. So keep that in mind.

Now are there a lot of other sailors in your marina?

If so there are usually one or two guys that people go to for advice; the guys that can fix anything (not necessarily the saltiest sailors). Find out who they are and introduce yourself by showing up with beer. They'll generally give you a read on both how serious it is (they can look at it) and on who the good and honest yards are in your area. Remember not every yard is good and not every yard is honest. And repairs should be in line with sailing a 30+ year old boat on a river.

Here's another question to ask the yard. Is the temporary repair OK for knocking around for the summer? If so could they do the job a little cheaper if you can leave the boat with them for the winter so they can do it as fill in work when they're slow?

You don't have to be a shipwright to own a boat. Being able to do your own small repairs helps, but knowing when to bring in the pros is being smart.

Best of luck with her,
Jim

 

[Kings Gambit]

And repairs should be in line with sailing a 30+ year old boat on a river.

What is that supposed to mean? How would the yard people know where the boat might be sailed over the life of the repair? Either it's fixed correctly or it isn't. If the latter, then it's potentially a danger to any owner now or in the future.

 

[ddrewry]

The pictures just don't look that bad. I have seen boats with much worse apparent damage that had no structural issues at all. The poster that said pictures of the inside keel bolts was right on and that would be helpful but as you have pointed out you likely don't have the experience or interest to make the call your self. The very best thing for you to do is to start getting quotes form other people. Your current yard may be the cheapest but they may also be overcomplicating the task greatly. You will find prices vary significantly for the exact same job and I suspect you will also get significantly different quotes on the required work. Personally I doubt this is a big deal, most likely tighten the bolts and reseal the keel from the outside. If there was really significant structural damage the yard should have never put the boat back in the water. More significantly they should have NEVER told you it was ok to even putt around in it. Get some quotes and compare.

 

[ddrewry]

In response to some of the inputs: you will also find there are probably fifty ways to do the repair "right" - and yes I am an engineer. Again, get quotes and talk to people around you, show them your pictures and go from there, you don't have to pull the boat each time. In fact the outside work is simple, an inspection of the interior will tell a repair person all they need to know to give you a quote when combined with your pictures. Pick someone you feel confident in from talking to them. The bottom line is this is a very simple boat, I doubt many repair people would have to call in other expert opinions ...

 

[rgranger]

JD4 (the O.P.) stopped responding on p.2 of this 4-page rant....

If running aground didn't discourage him from sailing again... we might have just pushed that button for him with our rants....

 

[Alan Gomes]

What you might consider doing is this: Rather than taking it to another yard for another quote, you might want to hire your own competent marine surveyor for a couple of hundred (?) who can look at the damage, specify exactly what exact repair it would need to be done correctly, and give you an estimate of what he thinks would be the going costs for such a repair. A less than reputable boat yard may inflate the costs and also cut corners on the repair, leaving you with a repair that is both overpriced and inadequate. By hiring your own surveyor you have no conflict of interests. Plus, if you do decide to have it repaired, you can make sure that whoever does the repair will do it correctly and not slap Bondo in there (!) and call it good!

If you do go this route, ask around for some recommendations for good marine surveyors in your area. Don't go with someone the yard provides, as again there may be a conflict of interest. The surveyor works for you and for your best interests, not theirs.

That said, I'm in no way advocating that you necessarily proceed with a repair. It may be that totaling the boat is the best course so as not to throw good money after bad. But again, it might be worth a couple hundred to pay a surveyor to help you make that judgment.

 

[dc78212]

I never suggested that he quit sailing... I'm just pointing out how much money do you put into a 32 year old Catalina 25?

And let's put the repair into perspective; lots of work? Yes. Do it yourself? Yes... well not by yourself.

Nothing "technical " about the work. Rebuilding an engine is technical. Fiberglass work just takes practice. Painting once done... just work.

Not trying to over simplify the job, but I really don't get the impression that the OP is a do-it-yourselfer.

So we are back to; how much money do you put into a 32 year old Catalina 25? And the OP hasn't spoke up and said if he is really interested in trying himself to fix it... with or without help.

I'm trying to stay away from the "fix it and get back on the water" crowd and trying to give realistic replies about if he should pay to have it fixed or not.

BTW - he stated he was working on his 3rd quote when this happened. Although I don't know for sure, I suspect he went out without insurance at all...

 

[jd4cm0601]

Well, thanks for that.

 

[jd4cm0601]

Update... the boat has been in the water several days after the initial patch. I picked it up today, hardly any water. Tried the jib first, then full sail for a bit after, and motor at full speed. No problems and no water thus far. Took pics of all 5 keel boats. They are not rusted, bent, or damaged. No apparent cracks in the glass around them, or large holes, and threads look ok. The ones in the rear and center seem to be the same height. The one in front seems to be countersunk a little burying about half of the nut. Not sure if that was existing or new, but it will need fixed. Getting additional quotes and some expert advice as possible. I appreciate most people's advice and efforts here. I will pick through what is most helpful and move forward. Thank you.

 

[sandpiper10471]

Not that hard to fix, even for a novice. However, it will take a lot of research/learning time with the boat out of the water before touching a grinder. Go to a fiberglass dealer and talk to them about products and techniques. Buy a couple of books on repair. Remember the young college kid at West Marine is in the job of selling and likely won't have had his hands dirty. I have seen too many poorly done repairs because "the guy at the store said that is what I should use". Pick the brains of a few glass workers hanging around the boatyard. Go to many sources and then analyze and compile. I have seen and worked on worse. It is indeed quite doable if willing to research, learn and scratch and itch. Buy good tools, especially respirators.

 

[sandpiper10471]

Optical illusion? My previous post was written before I saw the most recent pics. It would appear that someone has poured resin into the sump and buried the bolts - or is that standing water? The top surface should be white gelcoat, not a clear coat. If resin has been poured in, that would indicate that someone previously had a water intrusion problem and fixed it most inappropriately. All that resin, if that is what it is, should be chipped out.

 

[kerryedwards]

I too was trying to figure out if that was resin or water. I finally concluded water. However there does not appear to be damage to the area around the top of the keel boats. If that is resin, it's not reinforced so if there was damage there, I'd expect to see cracks in that resin.

 

[raybobsky]

The fact that you are on the water and enjoying your boat proves you are smart enough. Also smarter than the credit card captains out there.

My marina put it very simply, you can take the nuts right off the keel bolts and if the 5200 was bedded correctly it will last forever.

That being said I would not hesitate in doing the repair if you are on a set of stands it is an easy fix. Block the keel, remove the nuts, jack the boat up enoug to get a gap without complete removal, clean, rebed well with 5200, lower boat, reinstall and torque bolts, put in water, to satisfy credit card captains get insurance, have fun.

Fair winds
Ray

 

[JVB]

Would like to see high resolution pictures after the area is thoroughly cleaned and dried.

 

[talbotb]

I think the most important thing was said on the first page. If you like the boat and plan to sail it, do whatever is necessary to keep it sailing. I'm a dinghy sailor, so my expectations of cost are in the thousands, not tens of thousands. But I have certainly purchased my current boat (1973 O'Day 17, acquired for $900) many times over. The boat gets better each year. I had zero mechanical skills when I started, but I'm now comfortable fixing a wide range of issues. I was helped by the active O'Day user forums, and--according to Sailboatdata.com--you own the most popular 25' cruiser ever built in the US. So you have at least as much free assistance at your disposal as I do. We have been looking at larger boats, and a nephew who has owned a number of yachts told me that a Catalina 25 he once owned was the best of the lot. Not the biggest or fastest, but the best all around package. He actually regretted some of his upgrades. I vote for keeping it and becoming an expert in Catalina hull repairs. A year or two from now, people will be begging you for advice.

 

[croatan fan]

JD4, sorry for your unfortunate experience. I hope this will not be an end to your move into larger craft from the dingy classes.
Believe us when we say that you are not the first or only one to have had a bad day on the water that costs money and yard time.

The best advise you have received here is to seek out other Cat 25 owners, they will be the very best resource you can find.

My recommendation to you is to find a experienced mentor, who will help guide you where your experiences on the water guarantee you gain a good skill set.
If you can find a crew situation with a good captain this sailing season I'd recommend you do that.

Best Wishes,
Tim AKA Croatan Fan, S/V Croatan