I am in deep trouble! Mayday!

mz4wheeler · May 15, 2016

capta said:
This guy has already stated that he doesn't know much about boats pretty emphatically, don't you think? Do you really think that this would be the proper repair for him to begin his education in boat repair with?

Everyone has in their own mind their limitations of what is possible. This (of course) can change with education of the subject. By making the above statement, you are unwittingly attempting to limit their abilities, possibly based on your own. So, yes, it IS possible for ANYONE to repair the keel IF you have the determination and will. The UMA video clearly demonstrates what is possible, and neatly outlines the steps (education). Would I do it? Only if I had to.... [grin]

rgranger · May 15, 2016

It is probably not as bad as you think... yes a lot of work to fix but fiberglass is easy to work with once you get the hang of it. What you need is a way to put your boat up on stands or in a sling for a bit and take the keel down. I've done it on four different boats and there are a lot of people on this site who can walk you through the process. Then repair the keel bolt hole and replace the keel bolt.

You will be fine... and you will learn a lot about your boat... and you will have a lot more confidence going forward.

Bill Roosa · May 15, 2016

capta said:
This guy has already stated that he doesn't know much about boats pretty emphatically, don't you think? Do you really think that this would be the proper repair for him to begin his education in boat repair with?

I would tend to agree that this is a big first project. However, what does not kill us makes us stronger and this would be a prefect opportunity to demonstrate (at least to himself) that he has the right stuff. Sailing is not for everybody and there is no shame in recognizing your limitations. I'm not convinced he has found the limit though. He did get the boat and his crew back safely so he is 100% there, he did buy a sound boat that can take this kind of abuse and keep going so he probably has "the sailor" in him (I'll bet latent at this point in his life).
I would seriously consider un-friending on Facebook the guy that recommended liability only insurance though.

rgranger · May 15, 2016

Bill Roosa said:
I would seriously consider un-friending on Facebook the guy that recommended liability only insurance though.

I can agree with most of what you said ... I guess it depends on how old and how nice the boat is. If the boat is a serious commitment to the family's overall financial footing, then yes.... get comprehensive insurance. If the boat is rather old-ish and in the disposable income range.... then I think liability is the way to go.

I consider boats toys and won't buy one that is outside of that consideration.... so I get liability. But if you live on your boat or it is a bigger part of your financial life then it makes sense to get the full blow insurance. I don't think there is a "one-size-fits-all" answer to the question of how much insurance you should hold. For me, I hold liability because it is a moral imperative... beyond that, if I lose my boat... I'll have to wait a few years before I can afford to buy a new one. Besides I enjoy working on my boats so I don't really want someone else doing the repair.

Bill Roosa · May 15, 2016

me thinks rgranger needs a bigger boat. At some point in your life your boat becomes a toy (his definition) at which time you need to get a bigger one.
Back to the OP's situation, I'd recommend he look at the "poly stops you dead in the water" thread. Pretty sure that the members could come up with quite the thread of "situations that I overcame/survived"

Bill Roosa · May 15, 2016

jd4cm0601. as I said before, you probably have the sailor in you. Started off small (toy boat) so the inevitable boo boos would be survivable financially. Smart!
A word of caution about electronic maps however. These things are notorious for not making you aware of hazards to navigation. A paper ocean chart will still have isolated danger areas that an electronic chart would have to be zoomed (and probably change to a completely different electronic chart) in on that area before they start to show up. My advice to you would be keep at it and use paper charts and pilotage instead of all the gadgets. I would note that ocean racers take upwards of 6 GPS units because they need that many to finish a race.

rgranger · May 15, 2016

Bill Roosa said:
me thinks rgranger needs a bigger boat. "

Oh God no! I just moved up to a 26' from a 22' two seasons ago and I'm already wondering if I made a mistake. And that was after coming down from a 25'... So you see, I'm waffling a bit... But I'm a ghunkholler not a serious cruiser so I know what kind of sailor I am.
whatever floats your boat....

Maybe some day I'll have enough time to spend more than a week at a time on my boat.... but for now, the boat is still a toy.

r

rgranger · May 15, 2016

jd4 needs a new handle.... your full username is too hard to type... anyway.. .if you want help fixing your hull... snap some pics of the damage and post. People here have done a lot of boat work and myself.... I've restored 7 old sailboats.. some from a wreaked hull. So we can walk you through it if you want.

You mentioned the cost of the repair... if you really don't want to do the work yourself (or lack the place to do it) you might find it cheaper to sell or part out your boat and buy another one than to have the old one fixed.... there are sooooo many decent boats from the 1970's and 1980's on the market that repairing a boat is often not the $mart move.

mz4wheeler · May 15, 2016

jd4cm0601 said:
I have no intention of attempting this myself, I have already made enough mistakes ...

Boat owners do most of the work themselves, otherwise we wouldn't be able to afford this hobby. One things for sure, don't go into a hole (owe more than it's worth)... Solution, fix it yourself. Haven't done your own fiberglass work? Learn. Look, a keel is just 6 or so bolts.... That's it!! That assumes that you actually NEED to drop it (you may not). Get other opinions, not from the boat yard, but other DIY guys. Change your mind set.

Benny17441 · May 15, 2016

Before you go any further, do you have insurance? If you do, contact the company, report the accident and establish a claim. They will send an adjuster that should determine the fix and cover much of the costs. Ok the fact that the keel moved some might be of concern. For peace of mind I would get an independent opinion. I mean keel bolts can be tightened with the boat in the water but any structural repairs are best done on the hard. At this point I would follow Stu Jackson's recommendation and ask the C-25 community this same questions. They will know the boat and have probably dealt with these issues.

Scotty C-M · May 15, 2016

For another quote go to a different yard. They can talk with you. The thing is that Catalinas use a "grid system" as the structural member that the keel is attached to. If this grid is compromised it really needs to be fixed. If you don't, the keel can literally fall off! Don't mean to be an alarmist, but you do have to prevent worst case scenarios. That's why at this point you need to talk to a couple of different professionals. It seems that one has told you it needs serious repair. OK, that sucks, but what can you do? Get another opinion, and if they both say that you need to do this repair, eithor do it, or sell it (with full disclosure). Yes, you're going to be spending/losing some money, but that's just the way it is. HOWEVER, regardless of what others may say, you just had some (pretty) bad luck. It could happen to anyone. Get some sailing instruction, get out on the water and have a great time. I've f***** up a few times, and at 67 years old I'm still sailing, and loving it. Hope you can say the same someday.

Joe · May 16, 2016

That "Sailing Uma" couple are very, very ambitious. At least with their desire to refit a boat for world cruising. They have architecture and engineering degrees... they are young and flexible... she is an unbelievably appealing person. He is a brilliant over achiever. They are the kind of people that look at an incident like yours and immediately start figuring out how to solve the problem. That mindset is what cruising sailors almost all have in common.
Before you sign a contract... have another expert look at it.. and do as much research on your own to know exactly what the problem is, and the best way to fix it.... whether you hire someone or DIY.

alexco38 · May 16, 2016

Find a place that you can learn how to fix it. Takes time but not rocket science. Lots of materials around. Get some books and develop an interest how to fix boats. There is nothing to loose as you can't sell the boat anyway.

jibes138 · May 16, 2016

You can get one in pretty good condition for less than $4900.00 based on this listing right here in the classifieds http://oday.sailboatowners.com/classified2/adsmanager.php?task=showad&adid=15949
Probably not worth the cost of the repair. I had a Catalina 25 and the keel was cast iron, you can probably get a few bucks for the keel as scrap metal maybe 10 cents a pound or so. Keep all the other gear as spare parts and chop up the hull.

Crazy Dave Condon · May 16, 2016

As a former sailboat dealer, let me chime here. First how much did you pay for the boat? Secondly, how much is the estimate? Third, need photos of the keel bolt head shown in bilge to determine if pulled, other estimates

Many of us even in the marine industry have made mistakes too but you learn. Suggest on a lesson or two paticurlary in swift currents. Not sure about Savannah but Charleston, they are swift.

The leading edge of the keel took a hard lick. The seal appears to be broken. Keel bolts are generally embedded into the keel and in this case you have a cast iron keel. It will have to be dropped and that sir is no fun and takes time. The 5200 has to be removed and resealed. A lot is going to depend on the keel bolts. If it is only that the seal has been broken, I would tend to question a 35 hour repair. I use to be a Catalina and Hunter dealer but sold other lines in the past

dlochner · May 16, 2016

Crazy Dave Condon said:
As a former sailboat dealer, let me chime here. First how much did you pay for the boat? Secondly, how much is the estimate? Third, need photos of the keel bolt head shown in bilge to determine if pulled, other estimates

Many of us even in the marine industry have made mistakes too but you learn. Suggest on a lesson or two paticurlary in swift currents. Not sure about Savannah but Charleston, they are swift.

The leading edge of the keel took a hard lick. The seal appears to be broken. Keel bolts are generally embedded into the keel and in this case you have a cast iron keel. It will have to be dropped and that sir is no fun and takes time. The 5200 has to be removed and resealed. A lot is going to depend on the keel bolts. If it is only that the seal has been broken, I would tend to question a 35 hour repair. I use to be a Catalina and Hunter dealer but sold other lines in the past

Crazy Dave is pretty much on target. To his post I would add concerns about the hull lamination behind the keel. The keel acts as a big lever driving the back edge of the keel up into the hull causing the glass to delaminate and/or cracking the grid structure or floor timbers. Also check all of the bulkhead tabbing and interior structures for cracks and separations.

The holes in the fiberglass encapsulating the keel are the least of your worries. Those are a relatively easy repair.

The least expensive option may be parting out the boat and finding a new one.

As for insurance, if you don't mind writing off the cost of the boat liability alone is OK. If you had some kind of hull insurance, you would have a check in hand and be looking for a new boat.

Remember that wisdom comes from experience and experience comes from screwing up. We've all been there and done that at some point.

OS2Dude · May 16, 2016

You could also get a second opinion on required repairs and costs. Some things may need to be done NOW, some may be able to be done a little later. A real bummer for sure, but don't let the experience steer you away from sailing if you enjoy it. See if there is a sailing club near you that has folks that can take you out as crew and teach you the area and some basic skills.

Let us know how it turns out.