Help!! Did I make a huge mistake?

CloudDiver · Jul 29, 2016

SFS said:
I am no epoxy expert (about to undertake my FIRST epoxy project) but I paid a little more for the WEST #207 Special Clear Hardener. It does not develop the amine blush, thereby saving me the sanding steps that I would have had in order to remove that blush with the other hardeners. According to the folks at WEST, it also can be "hot coated" after a fairly substantial delay, which was important to me, but may not matter in your case.

I think in the humid environment of FL, the special clear is a good choice, but its REALLY expensive. Any epoxy/hardener combo can be hot coated. My test is that epoxy is dry to the touch but still 'soft' enough to press my fingernail in and make a slight depression. It takes an over-night cure for any epoxy to form the amine blush on the surface, but I would advise you that ANY epoxy/hardener combo that is allowed to cure overnight should be sanded for a good mechanical bond before coating again.
Special clear WEST hardener is popular with wood boat owners who coat their exterior hardwoods (brightwork) with epoxy prior to using UV protectant Varnishes. This fully seals the wood for 100% watertight seal and creates a faster build up to create that 'liquid glass' effect that would normally take about 20 coats of varnish to accomplish. As a comparison, if you were to use the 205 Fast hardener the epoxy will cure with a slightly orange tint. I actually prefer this on exterior teak, but some yacht snobs might loose their minds (although I'm 100% no one would ever notice, it takes a very thick application to build up that orange hue).
I just don't use the Special Clear because the benefit does not justify the extra cost. Generally speaking I use the FAST hardener on 90% of jobs, even in the dry heat of San Diego. If I were doing an extensive repair over a larger area or working in direct sunlight because it was impossible to avoid, I'd use SLOW hardener... also slow on multiple lay-ups of fiberglass cloth but I don't build many new boats, LOL. The only time I'd use Special Clear is if someone insisted on perfection for exterior brightwork of a classic yacht, and of course THEY are paying for it! BTW, I like Aero Marine epoxy for that job anyway and also for multiple laminate lay-ups.... because its HALF the price of WEST epoxy and made locally here in San Diego!

SFS · Jul 29, 2016

clouddiver, thanks for that very helpful info. My project is indeed interior wood. The WEST folks told me to use your thumbnail test as well. I will investigate Aero Marine if I lose my access to my discount at WM. Does Aero Marine also have pumps to make mixing ratios easy?

pclarksurf · Jul 29, 2016

CloudDiver said:
I
Special clear WEST hardener is popular with wood boat owners ... As a comparison, if you were to use the 205 Fast hardener the epoxy will cure with a slightly orange tint. /QUOTE]

Roger that-- the benefit to clear is really the lack of that orange tint. No issue whatsoever in my opinion over brightwork, but if you were glassing up a surfboard for example, the coloration would be worth paying extra for. Fast or Slow hardener should accommodate quite nicely.

CloudDiver · Jul 29, 2016

SFS said:
clouddiver, thanks for that very helpful info. My project is indeed interior wood. The WEST folks told me to use your thumbnail test as well. I will investigate Aero Marine if I lose my access to my discount at WM. Does Aero Marine also have pumps to make mixing ratios easy?

Yes, they sell mini-pumps with their gallon kits. They have quart kits but I'm not sure that the small kit comes with mini pumps. The 300/21 epoxy kit is what you would want, and a quart kit might be plenty to do the job. Even if it is interior woodwork, you still want to sand they epoxy and apply a UV varnish like Epiphanes. Epoxy will yellow, even indoors, it just takes longer.

CloudDiver · Aug 3, 2016

On the second pic, yes, that is a very minor case of osmotic blisters. They are very small because the water molecules are only trapped in between the gelcoat layer and on top of the fiberglass so they make those tiny bumps. Kind of like a rash or little pimples. If the water molecules were trapped deeper in the fiberglass itself the bumps would be bigger, anywhere from the size of a dime to a nickel. The bad ones (if there were any) would have a nasty sticky goo in them that would have a chemical smell if you popped them and drained them with a knife.
So what you have is very minor and really just an eye-sore. The fix isn't very hard and the job could wait until the winter or another spring. All you would have to do is lightly sand off the tops of the bumps so they all look like the ones that show blue where the outer gelcoat popped off. Clean with acetone and the use a putty knife to apply some gelcoat paste (from Spectrum Color website, $25 for 2oz jar color matched white for Catalina). You'd sand the cured gelcoat smooth (gently) with 120, then 220, then 320 wet, 400 wet, 600 wet. Then polish with rubbing compound. It will look brand new. If you have a DA sander you could do the entire hull with the 400 and 600 grit wet and buff the whole thing... Seriously, the boat will look brand new.
Like I said, that project can wait... some people wouldn't bother with it at all.

CloudDiver · Aug 3, 2016

For the parts, everything is good except you do not need the keel zinc kit... waste of money. Also like you said, you don't really need the centering/spacer kit. You can make your own spacers if you have some spare fiberglass cloth scraps and some epoxy. Do get all the other parts. The bolts you need are 5/16" x 1.25 inch and lock washers.

CloudDiver · Aug 3, 2016

Because your boat's old home port was Hampton, VA I am assuming (pretty easy) it was already in salt water. I am pretty certain just looking at the color and condition of the paint that is on the boat it already has anti-foul bottom paint. It would be helpful to know what brand and type of antifoul paint was used before. If you have any contact with the previous owner I would email them and ask if they know.
You do not need to sand all of the paint off down to the gelcoat. That would only be necessary if you cannot be sure what kind of paint is on there now and you really want to use an Epoxy Barrier Coat (this is a paint, not straight epoxy resin). If you wanted to do a fresh barrier coat (which is a good idea) you would have to sand all the old paint off, apply the new barrier coat and then new antifoul paint would go over it. Otherwise, you really could just sand what is on there as smooth as possible with 80 grit but you do not have to take it all off, just even it out and prep for new paint. Many anti-foul paints can be painted over the top of old coatings, but be careful, some don't work well when doing that. The major brands of anti-foul paints will have charts that tell you what types of anti-foul can be painted over the tops of others, that's why it is helpful to know what is on there now.
If you are in Toronto I am assuming you will be sailing in fresh water, Lake Ontario. This will effect what type of paint you choose. Also, will you launch from the trailer every time or keep it in a slip at a marina? If you are trailer launching your boat for every sail (called dry sailing) you don't need anti-foul paint at all.

CloudDiver · Aug 4, 2016

People think a Zinc will protect the cast-iron keel. The only thing it really does it make a hole in the cast iron that will eventually allow water inside and cause rust. The best way to protect a keel is to properly seal it in epoxy. If you keep the water off of it (epoxy is actually fully waterproof where polyester resin is not), then gala corrosion cannot occur. There have been many discussions throw back and forth about this topic, but I will leave it at this; just about every member here who has done a full epoxy keel restoration has opted not to drill a hole into the keel they just sealed with epoxy. Also, there is a type of zinc you can buy that has a long wire attached to it with a gator clamp. You can clamp it to the keel winch cable on the inside and throw the zinc over the side... this is about the cheapest option you can can go with that 'might' protect the exposed metals.

CloudDiver · Aug 4, 2016

For the paint... If you are 100% sure that blue stuff is not anti-foul paint, you don't really need to sand it all off. Yes, 50 grit on a DA will take it off, but if really isn't antifoul bottom paint, just use 80 grit to remove any loose stuff, smooth it out real nice, and clean/scuff it... no need to take it off completely. Then you can roll on your barrier coat over it. FYI, it takes a full two gallons of Interlux Interprotect 2000 epoxy barrier coat to fully apply two coats to the hull bottom, keel, and rudder below the water line. Don't cheap out. Also, wait until the keel is done and ready for paint before you start; the epoxy barrier coat is a two part system (you mix the catalyst with the base), and you only have 5 hours to use it all up. You have to be ready.

CloudDiver · Aug 4, 2016

Yes... You could rent sand blasting gear, but that along with buying the blast media will end up costing you more than just having a yard do it. Most of us have paid and average of $120 US to have it professionally done. If anyone tries to charge you more than that, go somewhere else. You don't need to go to a 'Marine' yard... there are plenty of industrial services that do sandblasting. My local yard is actually a Powder Coater, they do top notch work at a fair price.

CloudDiver · Aug 4, 2016

I would worry more about the boat and less about the trailer. Replacing the bunks with pressure treated is not expensive, an easy job, and a good idea. The shims that may have been there would only be needed to add height where necessary to get the proper curve to follow the hull shape. Not a hard thing to figure out if need to do that. As far as refinishing the trailer, especially paying some one else to do it... Unless the rust is so bad the trailer is ready to crack its not your biggest concern. The amount of money you spend on it... might as well just buy a used trailer in better shape, a galvanized one. Worst case, it will probably be cheaper and way less of a headache to just have it sandblasted and sprayed with an epoxy primer. My yard would probably charge around $600 to do that. Keep in mind, if you are going to keep your boat on a mooring all season (which is a great idea to avoid rigging every trip out), then you only have to launch and recover a couple times a year.

CloudDiver · Aug 6, 2016

reefsider said:
According to the Interlux interprotect 2000 product data sheet the way to know how much paint you will need to cover the wetted area of the boat is to use this formula:

LOA x Beam x .85 = the wet part of the boat

Now divide by 60 if using a brush or roller to get the number of gallons.

21.5 x 7.667 x .85 = 140.114 / 60 = 2.335 gallons.

CloudDiver was right in the money.

It says that should be done over 4-5 coats though.

I used a fine foam roller at first... this resulted in 4 coats just on the first gallon, very THIN coats. After that I used a 1/4" nap roller on the second gallon and it went down in two coats. 1/4" nap is the way to go, 3/8" nap would be too rough (orange peel). Also, the epoxy paint makes the fine foam rollers begin to fall apart.

CloudDiver · Aug 7, 2016

For measuring the paint (the 2 part Interlux barrier coat)... you don't have to. The gallon can is 3/4 full and the catalyst comes in a separate pint can, you just pour the whole thing in and stir the gallon. You have 5 hours to work with it. On a warm day you can put on a coat and in only one hour apply another coat, this is called "hot coating". Because it is an epoxy based paint each coat will chemically bond to the last coat, as long as you don't wait overnight between coats.
When you take the boat off of the trailer and put it on stands the rear stands should be placed at the strongest part of the stern which is right next to the transom. the forward stands will be far enough forward that you will be able to paint the entire middle section of the boat where it normally sits on the trailer bunks. Paint the area you have access to with the first gallon, this should be about 2/3 of the entire bottom. With a 1/4" nap roller you should get at least 3 coats, but you might get 4, waiting just one hour or so between coats. Let that cure overnight or a couple days is even better. When that is done you can place the boat back on the trailer. For the second gallon, have your keel and rudder ready to paint also. The area on the stern and near the bow will be a smaller area so you won't need the whole gallon, so for each coat as paint the rudder and keel. You maybe only need two coats on the rudder, just make sure you get the full three or four coats on the keel and the rest of the hull the same as you did with the first gallon.
The bottom paint (anti-foul paint) is not a 2 part paint. Repeat the above process but you don't have to worry about mixing paint and using it in a certain amount of time. You can also use a 1/4" nap roller and you should get a minimum of two coats on the hull, keel, and rudder. Depending on the type of anti-foul paint you choose you will probably only need one gallon. I used Interlux CF (copper free) and it was much thinner than the barrier coat and goes much further. In general, follow the application instructions because there are many different formulas of anti-foul paint.