Diesel Won't Start - Completely Frustrated.

[John Nantz]

The other thing to check is the pin connectors, especially the ones for the power wires.

The boat is in salt air so the pin connectors is a really good one to check.
(don't ask me why I think that)
Also, there is some good grease one can put on the connectors to help prevent oxidation. One type for when there is no chance of shorting nearby, and a different one for when there is a chance. Unfortunately, don't have the names at my fingertips. I *think* Oxguard(sp?) was one of those I've used (ye old memory isn't what it used to be), and don't remember the other one.
One really needs a volt-ohm meter to troubleshoot some of this stuff. Another person and some long leads are also helpful. Even a cheap Harbor Freight VOM would be better than nothing. Got one for free several years ago so just leave it on the boat; The Fluke I keep at home.

 

[dlochner]

The boat is in salt air so the pin connectors is a really good one to check.

The OP lives in Ohio. Don't think salt air is the issue.

 

[shemandr]

As a diagnostic step could you run a redundant wire from the ignition button to the starter solonoid? If it starts reliably then you've found the problem which is well known for Yanmar and other engines. I had the Yanmar harness problem and solved it using a relay. But before it was extremely intermitent. Sometimes the starter would work and other times it wouldn't. I even bought a new battery on a cruise. The battery wasn't the problem. The problem you describe are basically exactly what mine were.

 

[JoeWhite]

You would conduct your tests when it refuses to start.

 

[Red_Dog]

There are several things being thrown at me right now. Let me try to sort them all out and answer as best I can.

1 - The engine has started twice.
2 - The starter button was replaced last year. The keyed switch yesterday.
3 - If I had cut, and I've cut nothing, why has the engine the engine started twice?
4 - In a hopeful intent I have pushed the starter button in futility (definition of insanity). Pushing the starter does nothing. I have none of the noises that one would associate with a faulty regulator or solenoid, if this were a car.
5 - I have found a fuse holder in the wiring harness, but have not checked the fuse.
6 - Yes, I am saying key on, no idiot lights and no alarm horn.
7 - I don't know about a neutral cut off from the gear shift. I had all of that apart on a couple of occasions last year and found no wire, other than the wires to the compass.
8 - I have power to the DC circuits on both batteries, individually.

To sum, I have started the engine, but have not been able to repeatability and reliability start the engine. When I did start the engine the keyed switch, panel and starter behaved as normal.

That is why I'm at where I'm at.

I've called Great Lakes Diesel, left a message, have yet to hear back. Will try again in the morning. However, if someone knows of a reputable boat electrician in the Huron - Toledo area, please let me know.

 

[shemandr]

I guess it depends on whether it turns over but won't start or if the starter doesn't turn the motor over.

 

[Red_Dog]

As a diagnostic step could you run a redundant wire from the ignition button to the starter solonoid? If it starts reliably then you've found the problem which is well known for Yanmar and other engines. I had the Yanmar harness problem and solved it using a relay. But before it was extremely intermitent. Sometimes the starter would work and other times it wouldn't. I even bought a new battery on a cruise. The battery wasn't the problem. The problem you describe are basically exactly what mine were.

I would assume a redundant wire would be run from the keyed switch, not the starter button. The starter button is wired from the keyed switch. I would also assume the redundant wire would be run from the lug that's label 30 A back to the starter. Is this a correct interpretation of what you are suggesting?

 

[Alan Gomes]

That's a good one, could be that if he has an inline fuse.

Agreed. I wouldn't be looking at things like a defective starter when there is a systemic problem that is keeping power from getting to the entire panel.

 

[jon hansen]

all vessels and cars need a simple test light like this. they range from $2.00 to $22.00 . a few yards of wire will make it longer. start at the battery and follow the electricity through the system.

or you can upgrade yourself with one of these. following electricity is not hard. it's easy, it's sorta fun like a puzzle. it's part of running a tight ship. come on DOG, you can do it.
lake erie sailors are bad ass. we are can do people.
you da DOG

i don't sail without a test light in my tool box

 

[jviss]

Dog, based on the symptoms you describe, you are only intermittently getting power to the panel.

(Have you ever started this since you replaced the key switch?)

You just have to figure out how power is supposed to get to the panel, and examine the entire path. This can be done physically, i.e., visually, but should also be done electrically. If you don't have a test light or a meter, you're not going to get very far. Do you have either?

 

[John Nantz]

The OP lives in Ohio. Don't think salt air is the issue.

Oooops. sorry 'bout that. Must have been looking at a post further up.

Anyway, don't discount the bullet connectors! Salt air or not. POTENTIAL easy diagnostics. Take the connectors apart and put them together a few times and that MIGHT do the trick. There has to be lights and the horn at the switch panel, and if not, the wire harness is very suspect. The harness needs to run a MINIMUM AMOUNT OF CURRNET to light everything up and sound the horn so it is still possible to have SOME continuity (I.E., test out well) and not light up. Ditto corrosion on battery terminal.

 

[shemandr]

I would assume a redundant wire would be run from the keyed switch, not the starter button. The starter button is wired from the keyed switch. I would also assume the redundant wire would be run from the lug that's label 30 A back to the starter. Is this a correct interpretation of what you are suggesting?

It's been a while since I did this. I have a wiring diagram somewhere. I won't advise about where the wire should run. Just the methodology of diagnosis. You're basically jumping the harness wiring. And you don't need to get fancy about routing the wire. So it's quick and diagnostic.

 

[heritage]

My boat has an on engine fuse which if it becomes loose (has happened) or blows (never happened) cuts all power to the engine panel.

My 2gm20f also has a fuse in the wiring from starter to key switch panel. It is a standard agu glass fuse in a plastic case that snaps shut like a suitcase. The fuse is located near the starter in the wiring loom. It could be concealed inside a conduit. Check for corrosion or looseness in the fuse case.

 

[Red_Dog]

I do have a multi-meter. So far it hasn't told me much.

No, the engine has not started since replacing the keyed switch.

I have located the fuse. I don't remember now if I opened it. I'll check it tomorrow.

While I would like further suggestions, I'm not going to replay until I've been out to the boat (tomorrow) and gone through things that have been suggested.

 

[jon hansen]

when was the last time you cleaned the main ground on the engine? annually on the lakes is the norm.
on the lakes mine is in need every year.
the little wires are easy to trace for a broken one. if you have a key, they are always trouble. my boats have heavy duty starter buttons. no keys.
keys for security are a myth.
yeah , i'm blunt but all my boats are in killer shape.

 

[jon hansen]

lake erie sailors are the best. if you can sail lake erie you can sail any where in the world!

just saying

 

[victorhoisington]

Ok, I"m in the bad connection camp. Based upon your description and reading, if it was just the solenoid you would have had some lights prior to startup. My suggestion would be to not just check the connection but actually redo each connection. Start from the ground and work forward. unclamp/unbolt/undo each connection, clean it and reattach. Just checking that the connection is tight doesn't always work and you often can't see the corrosion.

Good luck - keep us posted on your results.

 

[chuckwayne]

No idiot lights? No power; you have probably cut a wire or have a short in the wiring harness from the engine to the control panel. This harness is routed through sharp fiberglass bends under the cockpit. In older boats with years of hull flexing this harness can get chaffed and cut through the insulation. The problem usually manifests itself with odd behavior of the buzzer and idiot lights but it also happen that it cuts through the positive power wire and everything goes dead. You may check for continuity on the harness wires to determine a fault but usually a visual inspection of the harness will reveal where the insulation may be cut. It will usually be found around a bend. The other thing to check is the pin connectors, especially the ones for the power wires. Now if you have idiot lights and intermittent starting the problem might be a drop of voltage in the old wiring. This can be usually solved by installing an auxiliary solenoid or parallel wiring from panel to solenoid. Some relocate the push button closer to the engine inside the cabin. No, Hunters are not bullet proof. The voltage drop is a common malady but usually does not affect the idiot lights. It is also usually intermittent and the engine will start in the 2nd,3rd,or 4th try. From what you explain my money would be on a cut wire in the harness.

IT's a catalina with a yanmar, not a Hunter;-)
Yanmar GM engines have an inline fuse holder buried in the engine harness,wrapped in tape - and then painted by Yanmar. It causes intermittent problems like you're seeing. dig it out, clean contacts, check/replace fuse and it might cure your issues.

 

[DayDreamer41]

Does your vessel have an automatic Sea-fire suppression system in the engine bay?

 

[reworb]

I would bet its your wiring harness. Its a common problem The following is from a post I made on another thread:

Sounds like the same problem I had with my 2GM20. The problem was/is the wiring harness, Yanmar cheaped out on the wires from the stater motor they were undersized and non tinned. I replaced the red and white wires (not sure if that's the correct colors for your's) with number 10 tinned wires from the starer motor to the button and key. Never had a problem since, starts first time every time. The non-tinned wires corrode over time and since they are small to begin with resistance builds up not delivering enough juice to the starter. I was told that the multiple attempts to start temporarily lowers the resistance from the heat or something. I read about installing a second relay but that seemed to add a layer of complication and no less work than simply running two new quality wires