1984 Refurbishing Project

Scott T-Bird · Feb 1, 2017

Correct, not everything has to come from WM. Shop at the SBO store first. For instance, this Selden telescoping spinnaker pole will serve you well. I bought mine from this store for less than $500. It is an excellent product. Sorry, I don't have a picture of it deployed, but here it is in my stanchion mounted chocks. If you have a ring or a track on your mast you are half-way there. ($4,000 is ridiculous). Although, while your mast is down, you may want to plan and install the exits and sheave for spinnaker halyard and topping lift to be run inside the mast.
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/prod.php?6756/Telescopic+Spinnaker+Pole
http://www.seldenmast.com/files/1388402617/excerpts/595-808-E-142-142.pdf
This product is designed to be a spinnaker pole at the Design Length and it has 2 whisker pole settings. Read the info on it. I bought the one that is shortest for my boat so the spinnaker setting is just under the J dimension. I also did this for less weight. There are 4 positions: stowaway, spinnaker, whisker 1, whisker 2. I think the 14.7' length is adequate for wing on wing even with my larger genoa. On your boat, I suspect the model that starts at 9.8' length and ends at 17.2' length will work best. I almost did that myself because the spinnaker setting would be just slightly longer than J and if I really wanted to be race legal, you can use the stowage length (the shortest setting). Some folks don't like the push button settings because it can be dangerous to the finger tips. But OTOH, you shouldn't be adjusting the whisker pole under load anyway. Personally, I think this product is designed very well, it is plenty sturdy (if not a bit heavy), and I think that 2 whisker pole settings is all that is necessary. I don't like the twist lock features on other adjustable whisker poles and unlimited setting adjustments isn't necessary.
Don't worry about the "out of stock" notation. They will probably have this for you in less than a week.

Scott T-Bird · Feb 1, 2017

Randall Schmidt said:
I do not know the type of Spinnaker- it is in the bag. How can I tell? Does one not require a pole?

A symmetrical spinnaker is a waste of time without a pole. If you decide you want a pole, I highly recommend that you use a track for adjustable height settings. It's not likely that the tack of your spinnaker, and the clews of various other headsails you may have now or in the future will have the same height . I put a 6' track on my mast ... a very easy DIY project. My track is from Schaefer. Attached is a partial picture.

dlochner · Feb 1, 2017

The $4K price tag probably included having the rigger do all the work and materials at full retail price. Careful shopping and learning the annual sales that most large marine stores have will save a bundle in the long run. For example, Annapolis Performance Sailing has an annual rigging sale in January with all line deeply discounted. This is the time to buy spin sheets and halyards. Defender has frequent sales, but the 2 biggest are the spring sale in late March and the Boat Show sale in October. Other places, like SBO try to have reasonable prices all year round and SBO deserves support for all the support they provide sailors.

The spin poles at SBO are probably dropped shipped from the manufacturer. Stocking them would tie up too much capital for a low demand item.

On a nice dry day pull the spinnaker out of the bag and stretch it out on the lawn. If you have a large indoor space that will work too. The luff of the spinnaker will have a red binding on one side and a green binding on the other. The binding of the foot of the sail will have some other color, maybe blue or white. It will immediately become apparent if you have a symmetrical or asymmetrical spinnaker.

Scott T-Bird · Feb 1, 2017

When you pull the sail out of the bag, there may be something that tells you if it is sym or asym. A 'symmetrical' has the same length for the leach and the luff, which are interchangeable. On one edge, there should be a green tape running the length and the other edge should have a red tape. The sail has 2 tacks instead of a separate tack and clew (because they are interchangeable) The foot should be obvious.
For an "Asymmetrical" you will have a definite luff and a definite leach, which will be significantly longer than the luff. All you have to do is measure with a tape to discover the approximate dimensions. Your head, tack (at the end of the luff) and clew (at the end of the leach) should also be marked.

Davidasailor26 · Feb 1, 2017

Like the others have said, to check what type of spinnaker it is just compare the long edges. If they don't match it's asymmetrical. No need for any pole if that's what it is. The pic below is what our 28 looked like with its
asym.

When looking for poles, if you do have a symmetrical spinnaker, be careful to get a true spinnaker pole, or one that is listed for either purpose. A pure whisker pole may be built lighter and may not be built to handle the compressive load of a spinnaker guy, especially on a reach.

Ron20324 · Feb 1, 2017

Randall Schmidt said:
Nice. Thanks

If you just want to get your feet wet, I have a twist-lock 6.5 to 11.5. Latches both ends. 1 7/8 tube. Buy me the blue plate special and a couple beers in Annapolis, and it's yours.

dlochner · Feb 3, 2017

Randall Schmidt said:
Back to hole prep... for my toe rails and eyebrows... the screws are not deep into the fiberglass. Do I just epoxy them over to do I need to pot them first?

It is not necessary to pot them first. However, if you want to ensure that no water enters through those screw holes and gets into the wood core, potting first is necessary. It is not necessary to pot hole that are in solid fiberglass. The holes were the deck and hull are joined are probably solid, the holes for the handrails are probably in cored fiberglass.

dlochner · Feb 4, 2017

Randall Schmidt said:
See the photos please. the toe rail holes show me some sort of flexible material residue around the inside of the hole where the removed screws came from. I might be able to dig this stuff out with a very narrow blade knife but it would difficult especially given the large number of holes to treat. U hate to make these holes bigger but maybe that is necessary. Do I countersink the top layer to remove the old flexible material? Also, i see some cracks in the fiberglass under the toe rail and some spots missing gelcoat. these areas will be sealed with caulk (or some sort) and a toe rail so how important is it that I regel coat them? do I need to do something to prevent a crack from running?

It is a little difficult to tell from your photos, however, it appears that the teak is screwed into a raised fiberglass toe rail like the one in this image. ‎imt.boatwizard.com/images/1/65/32/4496532_20131025123324821_1_XLARGE.jpg

If that is the case the question is what is under the fiberglass? If it solid glass, then clean out the old caulk and put it all back together. If it is a piece of wood, then it would be best to drill out the old holes, fill with epoxy and then drill appropriate sized holes. Drill out 1 hole to see what comes out. If it is wood cored you'll get sawdust. You will also know if the the core is wet. The sawdust should be dry and a light brown or tan. If it is wet or black, the wood needs to be dried out and sealed tightly.

Try using a utility razor knife to dig out the old sealant on the rail. The original holes were countersunk to form a better seal.

The standard method to fill the over drilled holes is to use thickened epoxy and a syringe to inject the epoxy in the hole. This is messy and tedious! I've been using West System SixTen epoxy. It comes in tube that fits into a caulking gun. It is a bit more expensive, but much faster and neater. Jamestown Distributors has similar product in their house brand for a few dollars less.

dlochner · Feb 4, 2017

Randall Schmidt said:
also on the mid-ships stanchion, the inside nuts are covered by a nice looking piece of wood. I unscrewed the screws holding it up and yet the piece is still lodging in place apparently by 2 vertical pieces of wood that must have installed after the wood that covers the stanchion nuts. I see wood plugs nicely finishing that vertical wood. Hate to remove them but I guess I'm stuck doing that. Any tips on how to cleanly remove them w/o damaging the look?

Use an oscillating tool with a saw blade and very carefully trim the end of the horizontal piece even with the vertical piece. When it goes back together fill the small crack with some brown caulk or just live with the 1/16" crack that will be there, only you will notice it. Those pieces are not structural, they just hide rough edges.

All boat designers and builders should be forced to work on the boats they designed. As you are learning, production boats are built together quickly and inexpensively which means they can be a PITA to work on later.

dlochner · Feb 4, 2017

Randall Schmidt said:
Yes it is a slightly raised fiberglass ridge that the toe rail screws into. How do you recommend I clean out the old caulk from inside the holes? it is too small a hole to fit a knife in. I'll try drill one hole to see as you suggest to see if I get sawdust. assuming I do not how do i clean out the stuff?

If that rail is solid fiberglass don't worry about the whats left in the hole. Clean the top of the rail and the countersunk area.

justsomeguy · Feb 4, 2017

Randall Schmidt said:
Hate to remove them but I guess I'm stuck doing that. Any tips on how to cleanly remove them w/o damaging the look?

Drill a small hole down to the original fastener, then drive a coarse-threaded screw through the bung. Should lift out the bung.

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