1984 Refurbishing Project

[dlochner]

From your photos, it appears that the holes were counter sunk, there appears to be a beveled hole that is holding the sealant. If the rail is solid fiberglass, you can use the old holes. If the rail has a wood core, then the proper way to install the teak trim is to drill oversized holes, fill with thickened epoxy, and drill new holes in the epoxy. A third option is to clean the rails and fill the holes with gelcoat and be done with finishing teak.

BTW, if you haven't done so already, cover the holes with some blue painters tape or UV resistant duct tape to keep water out of the holes.

 

[Randall Schmidt]

The photos are deceiving. The holes are not beveled. The boat is inside a shop so is not exposed to water. I'm still thinking the old caulk needs to come out somehow and I was hoping not to have to drill bigger holes to plug up just to remove that residue. thanks for your continued advice

 

[Chris Patterson]

Glue your carpet back on with Scotch 77. It comes in a spray can. Very sticky stuff..

 

[isaksp00]

If you need to inject thickened epoxy into holes, I found that a cheap cake decorating tool (from say Walmart or even dollar stores) works - the thing that has a bag and tips that squeeze the icing onto a cake. I thickened it to maybe a bit less viscous than peanut butter, and was able to inject into the hole where my bow eye penetrates the hull, so should work to pot enlarged screw holes. You'd only need it if they are too deep to spread the epoxy in with a putty knife.

 

[Randall Schmidt]

I'm thinking I'll use the old holes for the toe rail and eye brows with polysulfide.

For the hand rails I'll pot out and epoxy. I just tried to practice my hand at the potting prep technique. Using a 2 x 4, I drilled a small hole the size of the exit hole from the boat. I then counter-synched the top with a 3/8 countersynch not pushed in all the way. I was approximating the 5/16 countersynch web sites have suggested. (I could not find a 5/16 countersynch online or at multiple hardware stores). Then I tried the 115 dremel bit and 6/64 dremel router bit (took turns with different practice holes). This is tricky because the dremel wants to walk across the wood if I approach the hole with it running. If I put it in the hole just barely, then start the dremel it works better but is tricky. I angled the bit and worked my way around the hole. What I find is that I am able to widen the top half of the hole but not under the top surface as I was hoping and trying to do. The holes gets a little wider at the surface as well as below the surface. Perhaps below the surface it is wider than the surface but that is hard to prove. Am I doing this right? Do I have the wrong expectations? Any tips appreciated.

 

[Ron20324]

Not sure of your application, but bending a paper clip 90 degrees or using an Allan wrench, you can get into and under the decking. Works great on foam, but wood????

 

[Randall Schmidt]

Two more challenges seeking input to address...
1. the bow pulpit has a wire running thru it to get to the navigation lights. when I epoxy the hole and drill it out I guess I'll have to cut the wire then after drilling a hole. feed the wire back in along side the mounting screw or in its own hole I guess and heat shrink reconnect it. have connector be inside the boat, sound right?
2. I'm replacing the traveler. the old one had no sealant under it or around the holes. When I withdrew (hammered out) the old 8+" long skinny mounting bolts I noticed they were dripping wet. The traveler mounts over the cabin top on a couple of raised fiberglass blocks - probably having core inside them. I guess I need to pot out much of the hole - at least the top area and fill with epoxy. Keeping these 6 screws in position with the same angle will a challenge given how thick the fiberglass block is. I ordered a drill alignment tool and will try that. A challenge I'll have is that I am working on many holes with varying angles all of which I'll need to retain for re-use once I epoxy the holes. If I start widening the holes (potting) will I lose the anlge I need to capture?

 

[dlochner]

Two more challenges seeking input to address...
1. the bow pulpit has a wire running thru it to get to the navigation lights. when I epoxy the hole and drill it out I guess I'll have to cut the wire then after drilling a hole. feed the wire back in along side the mounting screw or in its own hole I guess and heat shrink reconnect it. have connector be inside the boat, sound right?

Yes.

2. I'm replacing the traveler. the old one had no sealant under it or around the holes. When I withdrew (hammered out) the old 8+" long skinny mounting bolts I noticed they were dripping wet. The traveler mounts over the cabin top on a couple of raised fiberglass blocks - probably having core inside them. I guess I need to pot out much of the hole - at least the top area and fill with epoxy. Keeping these 6 screws in position with the same angle will a challenge given how thick the fiberglass block is. I ordered a drill alignment tool and will try that. A challenge I'll have is that I am working on many holes with varying angles all of which I'll need to retain for re-use once I epoxy the holes. If I start widening the holes (potting) will I lose the anlge I need to capture?

If the oversize drill is large enough the angle will not need to be that precise. Use the stanchion base, traveller, etc as a guide to get the angles and spacing correct.

 

[Randall Schmidt]

thanks
when filling a fairly large area (traveler block that is maybe 4 inches long and widened out for potting) do I need to (a) layer the epoxy and let each layer set or (b) just inject it and wait for it to dry , or (c) include some fibers or aggregate to help fill the space? Maybe this space is not all that big after all ... probably option a

 

[dlochner]

thanks
when filling a fairly large area (traveler block that is maybe 4 inches long and widened out for potting) do I need to (a) layer the epoxy and let each layer set or (b) just inject it and wait for it to dry , or (c) include some fibers or aggregate to help fill the space? Maybe this space is not all that big after all ... probably option a

Quick answer, always use thickened epoxy, not straight epoxy. Epoxy by itself has very little strength it needs something, fiberglass or some filler to make it strong. Just like concrete, it needs stuff in it.

A fine single malt is used neat, not so epoxy (or any resin).

Check the West System website for more info.

 

[isaksp00]

How deep is that traveler area you have to fill? Since epoxy does not "dry" by evaporation, it hardens by a chemical reaction that produces heat, I don't think you'd have to layer it, unless it is so thick that the heat produced would be too much to dissipate. I would think that thickened epoxy (using say one of the fillers West sells, or similar) could easily go to 1/2 inch or more depth in one application.

 

[jibes138]

Caution mixing large batches of epoxy. I have seen it get so hot it will burn you and instantly flash cure in the mixing container making it worthless. Slow cure hardener might prevent this, not sure. If mixing a large batch use a large container so it is a shallow depth over a large area to keep the heat down. I have also been successful freezing excess mixed epoxy in an old freezer and it still works fine once it warms up. The freezing slows down or stops the reaction. I didn't use that freezer for food however, a cooler kept with fresh ice might work? Epoxy is very expensive so saving excess is worth doing.

 

[Randall Schmidt]

I did get filler from Jamestown to use so will try that. The traveler area is probably 4 inches or so in height and maybe an inch of widening of the drilled holes. the hand rails go on the cabin top. I'm, thinking the thickness there is maybe 1.5 or 2 inches and the holes after potting are maybe an inch to 1.5 inches wide. How long do I need to wait for the stuff to cure before I drill into it? I know it depends on hardener used and temperature. I'll have 60 degree weather Saturday and Sunday and Plasteak suggest I install their rails in 60- 70 degree weather since they shrink and expand in temperature changes. If I widen the holes Saturday then epoxy I'm thinking Sunday is too soon to drill into the epoxy.

 

[isaksp00]

If you mix it properly (it isn't super sensitive to ratio, but be as careful as possible) it should harden in a few hours at 60 degrees - certainly overnight ought to be fine. You will have some left over in your mixing container (well, probably); seeing how that is should tell you. The hardener type determines speed - the label ought to tell you something about cure time.

 

[Randall Schmidt]

Ok, a new headache for your advice... My boat is considered by several so-called experts to have excessive paint on the bottom and it is flaking off while on the hard. It was freshly ablative painted by the prior owner late April last year. There are no blisters and no excessive moisture reading. Options are: (a) ignore till next year; (b) remove the old paint and redo with Petit then paint; (c) light sand and add another layer of paint buying me more time to deal with it later.

My marina will not permit me to soda blast it - it has to be done by an approved EPA friendly on-site shop. They estimate $1400 to do that then they suggest covering with Petit protect - a polyester coating entailing resin and hardener. They say go for 2 coats then apply 2 coats of ablative bottom paint. Another shop says they have a peeler but they are a day's sail away and would involve another haul-out and splash fee. Could I try a heat gun and scrapper?

Someone told me that the boat sitting on the hard may have made the current bottom paint worse chemical-wise and more liable to have excess algae and barnacles making option (a) potentially painful. I think I can live with some drag for a year and do the deed next year if I have to. I just want to end the $$ bleeding this year.

 

[dlochner]

Leave it for next year. Sometime next August go for a swim with a brush and scrub the bottom. Or hire a diver to do the deed. The more the ablative paint ablates, the less there will be to remove next year.

 

[Davidasailor26]

The course of action will depend on how many coats are built up and what your tolerance is for drag from a rough bottom. Since the last coat was ablative leaving it on the hard should not be an issue. Hard paints generally lose their antifouling properties when stored out of the water, but ablatives usually don't.

If the flaking isn't beyond your tolerance for drag, then I'd say just scrape / sand the worst sections, overcoat with ablative as needed, and re-evaluate next year.

Another option you can consider is a DIY chemical stripper like Peel Away. It's not an especially fast process but it will take most of the layers of paint off.

 

[Randall Schmidt]

Realign the shaft in or out of water? My 1984 Oday 28 has a Westerbeke/Universal 2 cylinder 10 HP diesel inboard. The tranny is out at the shop. The boat is on the hard. Last June while on the hard I had a shop install a new cutlass bearing, and stuffing box and shaft and align the shaft. Now that the tranny is out, I understand the shaft will need to be realigned once more. The shop had me hesitate the splash the boat until the tranny is repaired and reinstalled. They say shaft alignment is best done out of the water. Another mechanic offering to help me says it is fine to align the shaft while the boat is in the water. It already cost me $200 to put the boat on blocks and I'm paying for dry and wet storage until she is back in the water. Am I smartest however to keep her on the hard until the shaft is aligned while the tranny is reinstalled?

 

[shemandr]

Caution mixing large batches of epoxy. I have seen it get so hot it will burn you and instantly flash cure in the mixing container making it worthless...

I once mixed a batch of Interlux 2000 at home, thinking the pot time would be the drive to the boat (About five minutes.) The stuff started to kick on the way and by the time I got to the boat the mixing cup had melted through and there was 2000 all over the leather seat of my Explorer. I thought it made the car look yachty like deck shoes with sealant on them. The wife saw it differently...

 

[dlochner]

Realign the shaft in or out of water? My 1984 Oday 28 has a Westerbeke/Universal 2 cylinder 10 HP diesel inboard. The tranny is out at the shop. The boat is on the hard. Last June while on the hard I had a shop install a new cutlass bearing, and stuffing box and shaft and align the shaft. Now that the tranny is out, I understand the shaft will need to be realigned once more. The shop had me hesitate the splash the boat until the tranny is repaired and reinstalled. They say shaft alignment is best done out of the water. Another mechanic offering to help me says it is fine to align the shaft while the boat is in the water. It already cost me $200 to put the boat on blocks and I'm paying for dry and wet storage until she is back in the water. Am I smartest however to keep her on the hard until the shaft is aligned while the tranny is reinstalled?

The shaft must be aligned once the boat is in the water for a few days. A rough alignment can be done on the hard, however final alignment can only be done afloat.

Why you ask? The answer is that while in a cradle or on jack stands the hull becomes slightly deformed, perhaps only a few fractions of an inch, but that slight deformation is critical with shaft alignment.