HI EV: As VWJON and JUSTSOMEGUY said, probably don't need a handle and you may have a hard time finding one unless someone on the site is parting out. If you are using a big genoa you might need handle. Would suggest investing in some pairs of good sailing gloves. Will save hands later. Bow pulpit, check with Blue Water Yachts in Seattle. They know a lot about Venture/Mac stuff. Also do some fishing on ebay. Fair Winds and Full Sails...Old Salt.
Thanks All, Encouragement appreciated. Lots to learn, but the n that's what I was looking for.
Another question: (Well, maybe 2) Seem to recall mention of some sort of "stop" -- maybe in the keel trunk to apparently align/catch/cushion the keel as it nests into its down/locked position. Can anybody elaborate on if/what that might be?
still haven't dropped my keel yet so what's up above the iron in the trunk is still a mystery. Getting ready to set up a hom ebrew lift to get her off the trailer for keel drop. Still probably a few days off.
Q#2: Understand about reasoning behind brake winch (definitely not what's installed now) and thankfully the DLB800 by Dutton-Lainson looks readily available and even very reasonable. I'm wondering, however if anybody's tried a worm-drive winch? I know they're slower than snot but my figuring is that worst case we're talking about cranking in/out less than 8' of cable. ???
Another question: (Well, maybe 2) Seem to recall mention of some sort of "stop" -- maybe in the keel trunk to apparently align/catch/cushion the keel as it nests into its down/locked position. Can anybody elaborate on if/what that might be?
still haven't dropped my keel yet so what's up above the iron in the trunk is still a mystery. Getting ready to set up a hom ebrew lift to get her off the trailer for keel drop. Still probably a few days off.
Q#2: Understand about reasoning behind brake winch (definitely not what's installed now) and thankfully the DLB800 by Dutton-Lainson looks readily available and even very reasonable. I'm wondering, however if anybody's tried a worm-drive winch? I know they're slower than snot but my figuring is that worst case we're talking about cranking in/out less than 8' of cable. ???
There are instances when the time to crank up 8 feet of cable and 600 lbs can seem very very long...
Down in its locked position, it's lined up with the lock bolt holes, and not necessarily at full rest. You'll quickly become familiar with your boat.
Trust me.
Some new questions: (Pics attached)
#1 -- What is the device mounted on the foredeck just aft of the cleat? (About 3" tall, 1" diameter)
#2 -- In the picture of the cabin interior, Looks like the wood "counter top" that has a small, sink installed may have been an owner mod. Can anybody confirm/deny? Did these (1974 V21) boats come with sinks from the factory?
#3 -- On the port side, looks like some "hacking" of the fiberglass liner has been done, but can't figure out for what reason. Anybody able to post a picture of what the original fiberglass liner would have looked like? In the "hacked" area, the cut out fiberglass was then patched with a piece of 1/2" plywood attached with some 2-1/2" drywall screws. Thought at first maybe this may have been done to improve keel pivot, lock-down bolt access but with plywood installed, (It was a bear to get those rusted drywall screws out.) access was actually worse.
#4 -- On the trailer supplied, which I think is original, looks like someone added aftermarket brackets to elevate bunk boards about 2" both fore and aft -- to the extent that bunk boards are bowed so much that mid section of bunks was not in contact with hull at all and fwd end of bunks was pinching the hull and deforming it visibly. Additionally, appears that two keel rollers are missing and a fixed keel bunk was affixed as a substitute. The "aftermarket" keel bunk is mounted hard to the trailer cross member under aft keel area but it is also resting hard on the trailer axle such that any vertical motion of the axle is transmitted directly to approximately the middle portion of the keel. I'm thinking I'd like to restore the bunk / roller configuration to what I think was probably original. by removing the aftermarket elevating brackets and installing rollers under the swing keel and the crossmember that runs under and about 10" fwd of the keel trunk. Anybody see any potential for problems from "reoriginalizing" my trailer?
Thanks
#1 -- What is the device mounted on the foredeck just aft of the cleat? (About 3" tall, 1" diameter)
#2 -- In the picture of the cabin interior, Looks like the wood "counter top" that has a small, sink installed may have been an owner mod. Can anybody confirm/deny? Did these (1974 V21) boats come with sinks from the factory?
#3 -- On the port side, looks like some "hacking" of the fiberglass liner has been done, but can't figure out for what reason. Anybody able to post a picture of what the original fiberglass liner would have looked like? In the "hacked" area, the cut out fiberglass was then patched with a piece of 1/2" plywood attached with some 2-1/2" drywall screws. Thought at first maybe this may have been done to improve keel pivot, lock-down bolt access but with plywood installed, (It was a bear to get those rusted drywall screws out.) access was actually worse.
#4 -- On the trailer supplied, which I think is original, looks like someone added aftermarket brackets to elevate bunk boards about 2" both fore and aft -- to the extent that bunk boards are bowed so much that mid section of bunks was not in contact with hull at all and fwd end of bunks was pinching the hull and deforming it visibly. Additionally, appears that two keel rollers are missing and a fixed keel bunk was affixed as a substitute. The "aftermarket" keel bunk is mounted hard to the trailer cross member under aft keel area but it is also resting hard on the trailer axle such that any vertical motion of the axle is transmitted directly to approximately the middle portion of the keel. I'm thinking I'd like to restore the bunk / roller configuration to what I think was probably original. by removing the aftermarket elevating brackets and installing rollers under the swing keel and the crossmember that runs under and about 10" fwd of the keel trunk. Anybody see any potential for problems from "reoriginalizing" my trailer?
Thanks
Attachments
1: That is the base for the mast travel support.
I'll post a picture, I have the original parts on my boat.
2: Yes, the port side of the liner is hacked, I'll get you a picture of mine. I believe there was a sink option. I have seen pictures of one installed. I do not have one or a through hull fitting.
3: My trailer is original, I will get pictures
I'll post a picture, I have the original parts on my boat.
2: Yes, the port side of the liner is hacked, I'll get you a picture of mine. I believe there was a sink option. I have seen pictures of one installed. I do not have one or a through hull fitting.
3: My trailer is original, I will get pictures
Thanks, John I'd be curious as to your thoughts as to whether having a sink is worth keeping? Might be handy but I don't plan to be making meals. Most I can imagine might be a little camp stove to heat some morning coffee/tea at anchor or a beach picnic.
For me she is a day sailor, if on the rare occasion I stay over on board, I'll use paper plates or wash when I get home.
No sink also means no drain, no faucet, less hassle.
No sink also means no drain, no faucet, less hassle.
I'm leaning the same way. Now what to do with a perfectly good thru hull? What might I want to discreetly discharge overboard?
Sink: always a handy catch all for small items and tools
Some Ventures especially the bigger ones came with a galley.
Thru hull: We removed ours and glassed over the hole.
Our sink drains into a 3 gallon jug and catches dish and handwashing water only.
One less hole in the hull worry.
Trailer: We have an original 1973 factory trailer. It has no rollers, bunk boards with one support fore and aft, and a crappy layout for the winch and tongue jack. The keel bunk is hard welded to the trailer frame and has a cushion in it identical to the one on the front of the trailer catching the bow. I have no idea why you would want to restore your trailer to original. After 5 years of using it I have plans to do the exact opposite in many respects.
Some Ventures especially the bigger ones came with a galley.
Thru hull: We removed ours and glassed over the hole.
Our sink drains into a 3 gallon jug and catches dish and handwashing water only.
One less hole in the hull worry.
Trailer: We have an original 1973 factory trailer. It has no rollers, bunk boards with one support fore and aft, and a crappy layout for the winch and tongue jack. The keel bunk is hard welded to the trailer frame and has a cushion in it identical to the one on the front of the trailer catching the bow. I have no idea why you would want to restore your trailer to original. After 5 years of using it I have plans to do the exact opposite in many respects.
I put my battery up next to the keel trunk, so no room for a sink or drain in that location any longer.
Thanks folks, I think the hull bunks were originally mounted to the welded supports that now have the add-on brackets. Two of the cross members have holes that look like they once had something like a roller--maybe just a board under the keel. In any event, at this point, only keel area support is the one hard board that's also transmitting axle motion to the keel with no discernible cushioning and a V-support near the bow winch. Another piece of this for me is that I've seen (on a MacGregor video) that, approximately, for every inch a boat sits higher on the trailer, you need to back up to a foot further down the launch ramp to get her to float off. Last weekend when I had some help, when we put my boat in a local lake for a leak/float/sink check, with my car in the water up to the rear doors, one of my helpers had to get wet to wrestle her away from the trailer on a line. I'm hoping lowering her on the trailer will help with that. Also hoping that adding some additional keel support will relieve some of the "pinching" of the fwd hull by the fwd edge of the hull bunks. Whatever I try, my plan to keep it reversible.
Couple more questions:
1. Was noticing the plates that guide the bow, port and starboard chain plates look like they need a re seal and thought about drilling out the pop-rivets that hold them and replacing the rivets with SS screws, washers and nuts. (never been a fan of pop-rivets). Would appreciate thoughts re whether that might create any issues a newbie might not see coming. Similarly, considering replacing as many pop-rivets as able with threaded hardware. Good Idea? I'd like to make anything I do repairable/replaceable with the simplest tools I can to keep my toolkit aboard efficient.
2. Also noted almost all hardware that has a screwdiver-type head uses common slotted screws vs. Phillips or other head types. Is this more a matter of the vintage of the craft ('74) or is there a good reason that slotted screws should be used? I do like the way non-slotted heads capture drivers better and think it might be one less opportunity for a slipping blade to gash me or my boat. Wisdom solicited.
3. In the tooling-maintenance vein, Besides the obvious (duct tape, zip ties, first aid ...) any suggestions as to stuff to carry aboard that might not occur to a new sailor?
1. Was noticing the plates that guide the bow, port and starboard chain plates look like they need a re seal and thought about drilling out the pop-rivets that hold them and replacing the rivets with SS screws, washers and nuts. (never been a fan of pop-rivets). Would appreciate thoughts re whether that might create any issues a newbie might not see coming. Similarly, considering replacing as many pop-rivets as able with threaded hardware. Good Idea? I'd like to make anything I do repairable/replaceable with the simplest tools I can to keep my toolkit aboard efficient.
2. Also noted almost all hardware that has a screwdiver-type head uses common slotted screws vs. Phillips or other head types. Is this more a matter of the vintage of the craft ('74) or is there a good reason that slotted screws should be used? I do like the way non-slotted heads capture drivers better and think it might be one less opportunity for a slipping blade to gash me or my boat. Wisdom solicited.
3. In the tooling-maintenance vein, Besides the obvious (duct tape, zip ties, first aid ...) any suggestions as to stuff to carry aboard that might not occur to a new sailor?
Couple more questions:
1. Was noticing the plates that guide the bow, port and starboard chain plates look like they need a re seal and thought about drilling out the pop-rivets that hold them and replacing the rivets with SS screws, washers and nuts. (never been a fan of pop-rivets). Would appreciate thoughts re whether that might create any issues a newbie might not see coming. Similarly, considering replacing as many pop-rivets as able with threaded hardware. Good Idea? I'd like to make anything I do repairable/replaceable with the simplest tools I can to keep my toolkit aboard efficient.
***Drilling out the rivets and using nuts and bolts is fine - that is we did. The small slotted plates are just trim covers. They will help hold in whatever sealant you might choose to use to keep water out (good luck with that). We are currently using butyl but I'm going to try 4200 next. Nothing stopping you from using nuts and bolts in place of rivets on your boat, just make sure they are stainless.***
2. Also noted almost all hardware that has a screwdiver-type head uses common slotted screws vs. Phillips or other head types. Is this more a matter of the vintage of the craft ('74) or is there a good reason that slotted screws should be used? I do like the way non-slotted heads capture drivers better and think it might be one less opportunity for a slipping blade to gash me or my boat. Wisdom solicited.
***I have replace almost all of the original fasteners on our boat and all of it is X-tip in place of the old slotted heads.***
3. In the tooling-maintenance vein, Besides the obvious (duct tape, zip ties, first aid ...) any suggestions as to stuff to carry aboard that might not occur to a new sailor?
***We carry tools to turn and/or adjust any fastener that is on our boat and engine. I carry a lot of tools I guess as well as materials such as bits of plywood and 2x4s and such. Since we always anchor out for lengthy periods and never stay at a dock. Being prepared has saved our bacon a few times - such as when our rudder headstock broke on a really gnarly sailing day. Or the time our main sail ripped from luff to leech, among others. The boyscout motto "be prepared" lives in our boat. ****
Some of these things you will have to discover for yourself since every ones use and abilities differ.
1. Was noticing the plates that guide the bow, port and starboard chain plates look like they need a re seal and thought about drilling out the pop-rivets that hold them and replacing the rivets with SS screws, washers and nuts. (never been a fan of pop-rivets). Would appreciate thoughts re whether that might create any issues a newbie might not see coming. Similarly, considering replacing as many pop-rivets as able with threaded hardware. Good Idea? I'd like to make anything I do repairable/replaceable with the simplest tools I can to keep my toolkit aboard efficient.
***Drilling out the rivets and using nuts and bolts is fine - that is we did. The small slotted plates are just trim covers. They will help hold in whatever sealant you might choose to use to keep water out (good luck with that). We are currently using butyl but I'm going to try 4200 next. Nothing stopping you from using nuts and bolts in place of rivets on your boat, just make sure they are stainless.***
2. Also noted almost all hardware that has a screwdiver-type head uses common slotted screws vs. Phillips or other head types. Is this more a matter of the vintage of the craft ('74) or is there a good reason that slotted screws should be used? I do like the way non-slotted heads capture drivers better and think it might be one less opportunity for a slipping blade to gash me or my boat. Wisdom solicited.
***I have replace almost all of the original fasteners on our boat and all of it is X-tip in place of the old slotted heads.***
3. In the tooling-maintenance vein, Besides the obvious (duct tape, zip ties, first aid ...) any suggestions as to stuff to carry aboard that might not occur to a new sailor?
***We carry tools to turn and/or adjust any fastener that is on our boat and engine. I carry a lot of tools I guess as well as materials such as bits of plywood and 2x4s and such. Since we always anchor out for lengthy periods and never stay at a dock. Being prepared has saved our bacon a few times - such as when our rudder headstock broke on a really gnarly sailing day. Or the time our main sail ripped from luff to leech, among others. The boyscout motto "be prepared" lives in our boat. ****
Some of these things you will have to discover for yourself since every ones use and abilities differ.
John, Thanks for the photo. Now I'm curious how your mast is supported at the other end. My boat came with a home made trestle lashed to two cleats near the stern with the fwd end tied to a fender the size of a prize winning watermelon. Not too pretty but got down the road.
Topcat, thanks for the tips. Wouldn't have thought of stuff like some wood pieces. Where do you keep your lumber? Do you carry spare sails or did you repair the main that ripped? Your mention of a broken rudder is the second instance of somebody telling me about rudder issues. Are rudder problems frequent?
Topcat, thanks for the tips. Wouldn't have thought of stuff like some wood pieces. Where do you keep your lumber? Do you carry spare sails or did you repair the main that ripped? Your mention of a broken rudder is the second instance of somebody telling me about rudder issues. Are rudder problems frequent?
At the stern is post thing that uses the rudder brackets, I place a spacer under the mast on the cabin top for transport to take most of the load off the transom.
I haven't had rudder issues, but I also installed bronze bushings at all the pivot points.
I haven't had rudder issues, but I also installed bronze bushings at all the pivot points.
Lumber is in Lazerett or under cockpit. We don't have spare sails and the sails we do have aren't even fit to be spare sails and they haven't been since we started sailing. But they are all we have and we've been using the snot out of them anyway but we don't leave home without sail repair tape and needle and thread and we have used them on the water many times! We finally have ordered a new sail suite.
We sail pretty hard and gunk hole often and our old rudder is THE most often repaired item on our boat. There are all kinds of potential mishaps with it. The thing can even hurt YOU (going in reverse with it kicked up but not out of the water and tiller not secured - you can be suddenly pinned against the pushpit with great force). Beware letting your outboard prop be intimate with your rudder blade.
Carry fasteners, wood screws, machine screw self tappers, various nuts and bolts, bits of stiff steel strapping, things like that. Not a lot of it - just something to go to when a problem needs solving or the admiral suddenly wants to hang a picture at 20 degrees heel.
Heres a story: We were stuck on a lee shore for 2 days by high winds. Finally decided HAD to get windward. The headstock split from top to bottom while exiting a very narrow rocky harbor entrance at full engine power into 6+ foot chop in 20 mph of headwind. The rudder stock split top to bottom, the lower gudgeon let go and the entire rudder slammed over allowing the lower blade to jam into the engine prop, while bending the top gudgeon hard over. The tiller pinned me by the neck to the combing with meaning. The Admiral was at the mast preparing to hoist the main but she abandoned that when see saw my toungue sticking out and my face turning blue. There was no stopping or we'd be on the rocks in minutes. Exceptional determination was required to keep the waves head on and the Admiral was looking a little miffed as the prop continued to eat the rudder. I managed to gain a few yards on the waves cut the engine and let the boat broach for a spell. It took both the admiral and I putting our backs against the tiller and our legs against the combing and doing our best really have to poop faces to get the rudder to agree to slam over to the opposite side of the boat from the engine. It looked really cool sticking out flat side forward half in the water out the starboard side. The engine was kind enough to have not stalled but did not want to steer easy because a tiller outboard is awkward on these boats and the pivot bolt was set pretty tight, compounded by the fact that the throttle on the tiller likes to head to minimum rpm setting anytime one happens to move the tiller handle. Helpful. But we were in luck! As the rocks were looming and the waves oncoming I managed to get her head up and were finally roaring to windward at the grand speed of 1 mph. I was thinking about getting a sail up and the admiral was thinking about getting the camera but we both nixed those ideas in short order. Gaining sea room was quite interesting since the stuck out rudder was forcing the boat up but I desired to quarter the waves and the engine tiller throttle wanted to keep going to minimum since I had to yank the tiller around all the time due to the tight engine pivot. The throttle required a constant kung foo grip. I am typing this now with fingers locked still in spider leg formation. So it went for 7 miles to the windward shore where we found calm waters. Threw out the anchor and cooked up some brats.
This repair got us through the 2nd week of the cruise,