New Old Macgregor Venture 21 (1974) Owner with questions

[VenturED]

My composite glass, steel and lead V21 (1974) keel has holes that are different dimensions from the leading edge as shown in the attached sketch (please share your sketch!). The pivot hole is centered 1 3/4 inches from the edge and the lock hole is 1 1/2 inches. Measuring from the corner at the top of the leading edge ony keel, the lock bolt is centered down 1 3/4" and the pivot bolt is centered down 14". If my math is good, that is 12 1/4" between the holes.

Be forewarned, I took these measurements from the removed keel and used numbers that 'looked good'. I hope the trunk holes are within that tolerence level!

I, too, would love to see a MacGregor sanctioned or "official" diagram. BWY in Seattle tried to send me such a drawing, but it was not attached and I have not heard back after I shared that info...

I hope this is of some assistance.

 

[EV21]

Thanks for that number John. Hole spacing on my cast iron keel is about 9.25". Have an idea of how to get a more trustable measurement. Will see if it will work.

 

[EV21]

Also, Ed, Thanks for sharing your sketch. Will try to finish mapping mine and post a sketch for you to compare. I will say my keel is quite a bit different than yours -- simpler, I'd say. Your sketch looks like you have a curve on the trailing edge that seems to sweep up away from the straight leading edge. Mine's leading and trailing edges are basically parallel. I'll see if I can find a photo to add here.
I am happy to share that I have a measurement I believe in for the pivot-lock bolt spacing. I'll share how I got it in case somebody else might find the trick useful.
I took two blocks of PVC 1.5" x 1.5" by 3" and drilled one through with a 3/8", the other with a 5/8" hole. Attached a "bridge link, also a piece of PVC, 3/4" x 1-1/2" x 11", with some PVC cement, to the 3/8" drilled block and positioned the assembly up into the keel trunk and slipped the 3/8"(locking) bolt through the trunk capture the block-bridge assembly. Then I similarly captured the 5/8" bored block with the pivot bolt. Finally I swung the bridge-link to meet the pivot-bolt block and used PVC cement to weld the bridge link to the pivot-bolt block. After the weld solidified I was able to easily slip the pivot and lock bolts out and harvest the PVC assembly from which I can get the hole-spacing measurement to transfer back to the keel to use to establish the position of the bushing. Now the plan is to ream the current, sloppy pivot hole round and oversize and then install a bushing into the opening. I just added a photo of my keel - notice the notch on the right of the picture that's the fwd/upr part.

 

[JohnCTV21]

That's what my keel looks like

 

[EV21]

Hi John and thanks for following along. Have a question you might be a good one to ask. Any chance you might have/know of, any good photos that could show me the setup for the main sheet system for a V21? I've seen some diagrams but not sure they are specifically for a V21. I'm still a ways from trying to rig but trying to look ahead, especially if I need to pick up any parts. Thanks

 

[JohnCTV21]

Let me see what I can come up with, she is packed up for winter

 

[VenturED]

EV21,

Nice technique for getting the measurement. I first read it quickly and thought you used PVC pipe, but now see it was blocks. Where do you find PVC in blocks?

Will you use that template on the keel or on the trunk? I've thought having bushings added to the trunk's pivot bolt hole, or some form of U-shaped metal bracket adhered around the base of the trunk in the cabin, would lend some stability to the keel and then a mating one in the keel would provide a strong connection.

If you are applying the template to the keel, how will you know the holes will be located in the correct spots? That part seems to be another challenge, unless you are certain about one hole's position and know the angle to the second. Maybe "close" would work in keels, as in horseshoes?!

Facing similar challenges with my keel and trunk, I look forward to updates along the way!

Happy holidays! Ed

 

[EV21]

John -- Thanks, no rush, just thinking ahead.

Ed -- PVC blocks were cut from scraps of 3/4 x 1-1/2" vinyl wood trim I had from some around the house projects.
Plan is to use it to find the correct centering of the pivot hole of the keel as really don't want to mess with the holes in the keel trunk. The keel-trunk pivot bolt holes are in surprisingly good shape and I'm treating them as sacred. The lock-down hole in the keel is also in good shape so I'm treating it as a reference since it's the keel pivot bolt hole that's buggered. Actually spent some time this afternoon test fitting my vinyl gadget against the keel holes and feel pretty good about my gadget's ability to correctly locate pivot bolt hole center. Attached some pix to give some idea of where I am. Now the question I'm pondering (and open to ideas for) is how best to attach a bushing into an overbored pivot bolt hole. I'm thinking along the lines of something like epoxy or J-B weld. Thoughts? Basically most of what I read suggests welding on cast iron is at best a fairly exotic process even difficult for the pros well beyond my skill set. Hope all had a nice Thanksgiving.

 

[VenturED]

EV21,

That looks like a good process. For sure, if the trunk holes are in good shape, then there is no reason to mess with them. My trunk lock bolt hole shows some wear, so I may need to epoxy that and redrill...which could be a tricky process! I'd likely locate the center as measured from the repaired (someday...) keel and compare that to locating lines for the apparent hole center drawn on the trunk; at least that is how I picture it from my couch!

I wonder if the rubber gaskets and big washers, properly tighted down, spread some of the load to the trunk surrounding the pivot hole... That seems it could help minimize wear on that hole.

My composite keel had a brass tube embedded in the pivot hole. There was a layer of filler material surrounding it, which I suspect was polyester resin with micro beads or something similar (or epoxy from a previous repair). Since the hole in the steel bar is much larger (and rusted even larger), I wonder how the manufacturing was done; a) tube placed, held with a jig and then filled around it when the rest of the keel was poured, or b) drilled, inserted and then bonded in the precise location. There seems to be nobody from the company readily available who can describe the construction process from back in the 70's. :-( I read somewhere that the outer shell was made in halves and then filled, with the bar inserted. The lead bulb could have been cast and attached later, followed by fairing and final mat & cloth glassing of the entire keel. Its a mystery...and I haven't tried removing the lead bulb for further clues.

I was reminded of the brief overview in the Mainsheet section of the attached rather-generic Owners' Manual that says (but doesn't show):

"Mainsheet:
Attach the double block to the boom end tang with the small shackle. Run the
mainsheet through the swivel cam cleat block, through the forward pulley in the
double block on the boom, through the pulley on the starboard rail, back through
the aft pulley on the boom, and tie the end to the deck eye just aft of the swivel
cam cleat."

Does your V21 have the same hardware for the boom end and cowlings?

Cheers! VenturEd

 

[EV21]

Ed, Thanks! That description seems to fit the hardware on my boat. Amazing what is in the manual! I actually have read through it but at the time guess I was more skimming than reading carefully. Definitely will go back through it again, and again ... Thanks again! Going over to the boat in a few to eat some more sanding/stripping dust.

 

[JohnCTV21]

That is how my main sheet is run, if you want pictures I can get you some.
I just finished getting the battery out and on the maintainer season officially over.