Seacock Quality... Replace?—Currently on the hard.
- Thread starter testingthewaters91
- Start date
I just don’t want the OP to think that the yard did it, so it must be OK.True, I'll give you that!
And the yard should be ashamed if they did those repairs.
The whole situation sounds tough….get the boat out of there….but check those thru hulls as soon as the the boat is wet to make sure that they are not leaking….they don’t look at all seaworthy to me.
Greg
Richard, thanks so much for reading the thread so carefully. You’ve really followed the journey, and you’re absolutely right — this is an interim step before getting the boat to a DIY yard. The logistics of moving the boat there have been a bit tricky, but I’m working on it and hopefully I’ll get over there this week.
I’m honestly having a blast learning about all the different metals, seacocks, how flanges bolt in, and how fiberglass hulls provide the strength behind it all. These are details most of the local boatyard folks around me have never learned, and when I asked at another yard, they basically told me it’s “totally unnecessary.” They’re old salts, and that’s fine, but they’re not quite up to code, and I’ve decided I’m going to do it myself, properly, with the right tools.
Right now, at least I’ve replaced the old brass valves with decent seacocks on the old through-hulls — enough that I can float safely. The brass valves that were there before were awful. I’ll attach some photos so you can see what I was floating on. One was seized open, and the other had a pitted brass ball — pretty scary stuff.
And for the record, I have installed one proper clamp on the new under-the-waterline hose connected to a through-hull that still has no seacock. I’m not overly stressed about it, since it’s a good hose and clamp, and the real weak point is the old through-hull itself, which I can’t replace until I haul out. No sense losing sleep over something I can’t address until I’m in the yard.
One of the other posters doesn’t seem to grasp the scope of this entire thread, but he’s welcome to go back and read it from the start if he wants the full picture.
I’m fully aware that the yard’s previous work is subpar and will be redone by me and my friends. That’s just the journey of owning a boat, I’m realizing — so much existing maintenance out there is substandard, not to code, wrong metals, wrong wire gauge, improper bonding, or no bonding at all. That’s just not how I operate.
Thanks again for your kindness and support. I’m definitely moving toward a good solution. It’ll take some time, as all good things do, but once I get all the proper seacocks in place, it’ll be a huge weight off my shoulders.
Meanwhile, I am still dealing with some water ingress underway when running the Yanmar 2GM20F, which I’m chasing down in my other thread. Overall, though, things are improving — and honestly, I’m loving every minute of it, even though my anxiety spikes on a regular basis.
Thanks, everyone, for following along.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 23,127
Was definitely past time to replace those fittings! That situation was a catastrophe waiting to happen. In reading all 125 posts, it may be apparent that there are a few types of acceptable thru hull assemblies:
1. Bronze seacock & thru hull fitting, thru bolted to hull or not.
2. Groco bronze adaptor & thru hull fitting that is thru bolted to hull or not.
Permits use of bronze ball valve to adaptor with like threads
3. Marelon (type of plastic) seacock that is not subject to galvanic or stray
Current corrosion.
4. Bronze ball valve threaded onto thru hull fitting.
You will find that various posters advocate use of one type of assembly over another. After obtaining advice from boat owner forums , boatyards, and doing your own research you have to formulate your own idea of what is best for you & your boat. If you’re going to sail across oceans, proper seacocks are the best, but most expensive application. If you’re a lake sailor or coastal cruiser, perhaps a less costly alternative (think ball valve) is sufficient. After all, most production boat builders install ball valve assemblies to cut costs Without catastrophic failures. Your ball valve assemblies have lasted almost 45 years! Regardless, all of them need to be replaced at some point in time. On the two production boats that I have owned over the past 30 years, they were equipped with ball valve assemblies & have served me well. I replaced them at approximately 15 years because the boats were marina based & you never know the extent of corrosion that has occurred. I don’t plan on crossing oceans, so ball valves are “good enough“ for me. For me to install seacocks on my present boat, I would have to cut thru hull liners perform lots of glass work; I am not going to deal with the hassle & expense for a boat that is primarily used for lake sailing & occasional coastal work. I use an engineer’s methodology of “value analysis“ on my projects, use the method that accomplishes your objective within the most reasonable cost. So, take this info as well as other’s advice & decide what’s best for you; unfortunately, diverse opinions can be confusing!
Finally, when I purchased my first boat, many years ago, my surveyor realized that I didn’t know much about cruising sailboats; he recommended Nigel Calder’s “Boaters Mechanical & Electrical Handbook.” It is my “go to” source for reliable & accurate information about boat systems. Calder is highly respected in the boater’s world & you won’t find a better boat publication.
Good luck with your thru hull project & many more to come!
1. Bronze seacock & thru hull fitting, thru bolted to hull or not.
2. Groco bronze adaptor & thru hull fitting that is thru bolted to hull or not.
Permits use of bronze ball valve to adaptor with like threads
3. Marelon (type of plastic) seacock that is not subject to galvanic or stray
Current corrosion.
4. Bronze ball valve threaded onto thru hull fitting.
You will find that various posters advocate use of one type of assembly over another. After obtaining advice from boat owner forums , boatyards, and doing your own research you have to formulate your own idea of what is best for you & your boat. If you’re going to sail across oceans, proper seacocks are the best, but most expensive application. If you’re a lake sailor or coastal cruiser, perhaps a less costly alternative (think ball valve) is sufficient. After all, most production boat builders install ball valve assemblies to cut costs Without catastrophic failures. Your ball valve assemblies have lasted almost 45 years! Regardless, all of them need to be replaced at some point in time. On the two production boats that I have owned over the past 30 years, they were equipped with ball valve assemblies & have served me well. I replaced them at approximately 15 years because the boats were marina based & you never know the extent of corrosion that has occurred. I don’t plan on crossing oceans, so ball valves are “good enough“ for me. For me to install seacocks on my present boat, I would have to cut thru hull liners perform lots of glass work; I am not going to deal with the hassle & expense for a boat that is primarily used for lake sailing & occasional coastal work. I use an engineer’s methodology of “value analysis“ on my projects, use the method that accomplishes your objective within the most reasonable cost. So, take this info as well as other’s advice & decide what’s best for you; unfortunately, diverse opinions can be confusing!
Finally, when I purchased my first boat, many years ago, my surveyor realized that I didn’t know much about cruising sailboats; he recommended Nigel Calder’s “Boaters Mechanical & Electrical Handbook.” It is my “go to” source for reliable & accurate information about boat systems. Calder is highly respected in the boater’s world & you won’t find a better boat publication.
Good luck with your thru hull project & many more to come!
. Calder’s book is absolutely worth the read and keeping a copy on hand.Thanks for the thoughtful response — I completely agree with a lot of what you’re saying.Was definitely past time to replace those fittings! That situation was a catastrophe waiting to happen. In reading all 125 posts, it may be apparent that there are a few types of acceptable thru hull assemblies:
1. Bronze seacock & thru hull fitting, thru bolted to hull or not.
2. Groco bronze adaptor & thru hull fitting that is thru bolted to hull or not.
Permits use of bronze ball valve to adaptor with like threads
3. Marelon (type of plastic) seacock that is not subject to galvanic or stray
Current corrosion.
4. Bronze ball valve threaded onto thru hull fitting.
You will find that various posters advocate use of one type of assembly over another. After obtaining advice from boat owner forums , boatyards, and doing your own research you have to formulate your own idea of what is best for you & your boat. If you’re going to sail across oceans, proper seacocks are the best, but most expensive application. If you’re a lake sailor or coastal cruiser, perhaps a less costly alternative (think ball valve) is sufficient. After all, most production boat builders install ball valve assemblies to cut costs Without catastrophic failures. Your ball valve assemblies have lasted almost 45 years! Regardless, all of them need to be replaced at some point in time. On the two production boats that I have owned over the past 30 years, they were equipped with ball valve assemblies & have served me well. I replaced them at approximately 15 years because the boats were marina based & you never know the extent of corrosion that has occurred. I don’t plan on crossing oceans, so ball valves are “good enough“ for me. For me to install seacocks on my present boat, I would have to cut thru hull liners perform lots of glass work; I am not going to deal with the hassle & expense for a boat that is primarily used for lake sailing & occasional coastal work. I use an engineer’s methodology of “value analysis“ on my projects, use the method that accomplishes your objective within the most reasonable cost. So, take this info as well as other’s advice & decide what’s best for you; unfortunately, diverse opinions can be confusing!
Finally, when I purchased my first boat, many years ago, my surveyor realized that I didn’t know much about cruising sailboats; he recommended Nigel Calder’s “Boaters Mechanical & Electrical Handbook.” It is my “go to” source for reliable & accurate information about boat systems. Calder is highly respected in the boater’s world & you won’t find a better boat publication.
Good luck with your thru hull project & many more to come!
I’ve realized many folks assume I don’t plan to go blue water or live aboard, but actually, both are true. I want to take this boat offshore, and I plan to live on it full-time. I know that means a lot of projects, but people have circumnavigated in Cherubini Hunters before. These hulls are solidly built, and I believe they’re up for the job.
There’s no reason to keep weak brass ball valves or old seacocks when I’ve already purchased new through-hulls and seacocks to replace them all. With the right tools, that’s a weekend job, and then I’ll have a solid hull and solid fittings. After that, my main focus will be figuring out why my engine compartment keeps flooding — possibly something with the engine, the propeller, or the dripless shaft seal.
I’m the type of person who initially hoped to rely on others for this work, but I’ve come to realize the standards I have for safety and upgrades are pretty high — because I’m planning to live aboard, keep valuables on the boat, and bring family along. Many people might be fine sailing on weekends with older fittings, but for me, the peace of mind is worth the investment. A few thousand dollars is a small price for safety and confidence in the boat.
So even though some boatyards suggest leaving things as-is, I’d rather make the upgrades. I don’t see any reason to skimp when it comes to safety.
Thanks again for all the support and good conversations here — it really helps keep me moving forward.
Don't misunderstand me; I have said from the beginning that you need to replace ALL thru hull fittings, backing plates valves, tailpieces, & hoses with quality bronze fittings & hoses. You don't know how long they have been in place & don't know their conditions. The valves that you did replace were way past the point of needing replacement. My question is, if you are only coastal cruising, you don't really need to incur the expense & time to install true seacocks. On the other hand if you're sailing to Bermuda or the Carribean, by all means install the seacocks. When I do replace mine, I replace all the components at the same time, so I have a basis for future maintenance. I certainly didn't mean to imply that you should only replace the valves. Personally, I don't consider installing new thru hull fittings, backing plates, ball valves, etc as skimping if the boat is used for it's designed / intended purpose.
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Another thing to consider. All of the warnings about strength are mostly important if something can fall against the seacock. Even relatively light objects can break or just open a handle. Hoses can chafe. It's best if lockers with seacocks or unshielded electrical gear are kept empty. Alternatively, a strong guard can help. But falling and shifting objects are a risk.
And watch for kinked hoses, single clamps, oversized clamps (common--they don't clamp well), and clamps on the edge of a barb (can cut the hose -- they should be at least 1/4-inch in from the end), and hose/spud mismatches.
So much for the new boater to learn.
----
ABYC H-33, TABLE I - HOSE CLAMP WIDTHS
Outside Hose Diameter (inches) Clamp width (inches)
Less than 7/16" 1/4”
7/16" thru 13/16" 5/16”
13/16" through 1.25” 3/8”
Over 1.5” 1/2”
----
ABYC, H-33, Table IV - MATING OF HOSE WITH SPUDS
IF MINOR OD (inches) MAXIMUM DIFFERENCE IN DIA (inches)
Less than 3/8” 0.020”
3/8 thru 1 0.035”
Greater than 1 0.065”
And watch for kinked hoses, single clamps, oversized clamps (common--they don't clamp well), and clamps on the edge of a barb (can cut the hose -- they should be at least 1/4-inch in from the end), and hose/spud mismatches.
So much for the new boater to learn.
----
ABYC H-33, TABLE I - HOSE CLAMP WIDTHS
Outside Hose Diameter (inches) Clamp width (inches)
Less than 7/16" 1/4”
7/16" thru 13/16" 5/16”
13/16" through 1.25” 3/8”
Over 1.5” 1/2”
----
ABYC, H-33, Table IV - MATING OF HOSE WITH SPUDS
IF MINOR OD (inches) MAXIMUM DIFFERENCE IN DIA (inches)
Less than 3/8” 0.020”
3/8 thru 1 0.035”
Greater than 1 0.065”
The seacocks on my boat are original at 30 years old and work fine. I never considered replacing them because of age but I guess you could. I certainly would attend to any old transducers as they can give way over time & flood your boat (i.e. Lady K in the Bahamas). That’s a nightmare.
I guess part of my confusion is that OP states he wants to move to a DIY yard…so that tells me he is NOT in a DIY yard and paid the yard to replace those bastardized fittings. Apparently I read too much into that sentence and the OP did the work himself.
While those Groco thru hulls are top notch, the application is not. And the hose clamped on to a skin fitting is not.
Are these repairs better than the old valves….probably, but I have no idea how those thru hulls are screwed on to the old skin fittings and whether or not they will leak. And if that hose that is clamped to a skin fitting comes off, the OP will have no way to shop water from flooding in (maybe he has a wood plug at the ready…).
Hopefully the trips to the new marina isn’t very far and the haulout will be Set up and waiting for him when he gets there….
So, God Speed and good luck.
Greg
While those Groco thru hulls are top notch, the application is not. And the hose clamped on to a skin fitting is not.
Are these repairs better than the old valves….probably, but I have no idea how those thru hulls are screwed on to the old skin fittings and whether or not they will leak. And if that hose that is clamped to a skin fitting comes off, the OP will have no way to shop water from flooding in (maybe he has a wood plug at the ready…).
Hopefully the trips to the new marina isn’t very far and the haulout will be Set up and waiting for him when he gets there….
So, God Speed and good luck.
Greg
Just to clarify: the so-called ‘repairs’ were courtesy of the boatyard, not me. I’d have done it myself, but they turned down my DIY request — a detail I’ve mentioned more times than the repairs were actually attempted.
Ok…so we are back to the yard doing a horrible job….what I said originally. I get lost in the…
”Right now, at least I’ve replaced the old brass valves with decent seacocks on the old through-hulls — enough that I can float safely. The brass valves that were there before were awful. I’ll attach some photos so you can see what I was floating on. One was seized open, and the other had a pitted brass ball — pretty scary stuff.
And for the record, I have installed one proper clamp on the new under-the-waterline hose connected to a through-hull that still has no seacock. I’m not overly stressed about it, since it’s a good hose and clamp, and the real weak point is the old through-hull itself, which I can’t replace until I haul out. No sense losing sleep over something I can’t address until I’m in the yard.”.
As long as you understand that the valves are not installed correctly and have a plan to get the boat moved and then hauled out, you should be Ok.
I just find it hard to believe a competent yard would think that they installed those thru hulls correctly.
Any way, God speed, and good luck. Check for leaks as soon as you put the boat in the water (before leaving the slings)…
Greg