Handling Issues while docking

[Ward H]

Yesterday was another great day of sailing marred by a very sloppy docking maneuver and dock bump. I thought I would have had this down pat by now after 30 or so docking maneuvers but I don't.
I decided to show you my slip layout and see what suggestions you may have.

We moved into our current slip last summer when we still owned our O'day 25. I have always set up a bridal system to assist in keeping the boat centered when dropping or picking up dock lines. A spring line from the aft starboard piling to the starboard winch would keep the boat nestled to the starboard dock and off of my port side neighbor.

Here's a diagram of my slip and how I have my lines.


What worked with the O'day is not working with the C30.

First the bridal setup:
When docking I too often over run it or it stretches too much to keep the bow off the dock. If I come in too slow or stop too soon the wind pushes the bow to port and the line stretches enough to allow the boat to settle against my port side neighbor.
I'm thinking maybe the bridal cannot contain the weight of the C30 without the line stretching too much to be of use. It is 1/2" 3 strand nylon.
I have some 1/2" double braid polyester I was thinking about using on the port long line and short starboard line of the bridal. It has a lot less stretch and may contain the boat better?

Spring line or equivelant:
For the most part I'm single handing so I need a docking procedure I can manage. On the O'day the winch was close enough to the helm I could easily pick the spring line off the piling and drop it on the winch.
On the C30 the cleat is track mounted on the forward end of the genoa track, about as far forward as I can manage and still quickly get back to the helm. This line keeps the bow off the dock but the stern will swing to port allowing the mid section to contact the boat to port. Luckily we are rub rail to rub rail but I still don't like it.
My next thought is to move the track cleat to the jib track and further forward. I'd put a spring line on it with a large loop on the other end and "lasso" the piling as I came in.
The first problem I see is the jib sheet will most likely tangle on the cleat.
I tried the docking line procedure shown in the video that @jssailem posted a couple of months ago. Didn't work in my situation.

Here's a diagram showing the slip, other boats and how I depart and enter the slip.


Here's a photo of Sun Dog in the slip on the 4th of July. My slip neighbor was out sailing. As you can see we have a great view. Those boats on the water are gathering to watch the fireworks.


And to close out the post, here's Monday's post sail photo. We all retired from the same company on June 1st. Linda last June, myself the year before and Paul 4 years ago. Paul used to sail Hobie Cats and has been on Moon Shadow several times. This was Linda's first time on a sailboat. We had a great time and we're planning another trip in September.

 

[Ron20324]

First mistake is if you are likely to hit your neighbor, put out fenders. Most slips in my marina have piling-to-piling lines between slips. In addition, if you can't use shorter lines, get shorter or non-stretch lines. You know the hazards are there, like the boat that got run over, so something HAS to change in the name of decent seamanship.

 

[Brian D]

I was wondering if the bridle is not high enough for the different shaped bow. Can you raise the bridle a little so that maybe the bow sprint/anchor roller catches? Don't know what to say about the spring line other than I am sure you will find the correct solution. You know the invention, mother, necessity thing?

 

[Sailor Sue]

First thing I would do is run a low stretch line between the two docks from the outboard dock post to the dock. Stretch the line as tight as possible and then hang two or three fenders at appropriate locatations. Then figure out the best place for a spring line to stop the boat before it can hit the dock.

 

[Gunni]

Forget that "bridal containment" arrangement whatever it is and rig both a forward spring and aft spring. Your forward spring keeps you off the dock, and your aft spring keeps you off the boat to port (and from drifting aft).

Mark your forward spring where is meets your mid-ship cleat so it is a quick no brainer. In fact mark all your dock lines where they meet your cleats, then anybody can do the job. Cross your stern lines for better control.

It sounds like you don't have dedicated dock lines in your slip. Remedy that. Carry extra dock lines for visits elsewhere.

Your situation is actually very typical of a mid-atlantic dock setup. Your forward spring is the first on, and last off. Your aft spring line will loop the forward pile and come back to midships. You can take it off and hang it on the that middle starboard pile where it will be handy when you come in.

Most slips in my marina have piling-to-piling lines between slips.

He has them too.

 

[Will Gilmore]

If you keep your starboard midship springline onboard, slip it on the aft piling as you come in. Keep the throttle in gear and your helm kick slightly to port. You will stay against the starboard dock. Then get your stern line on. Unless the wind is blowing hard, you can probably shut down the engine and get the starboard bowline followed by the rest at your leasure.

If you are not coming in under power, add a midship starboard dock line and pull it tight against the dock. Bow and stern bumpers will keep you from drifting over to your neighbor.

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[Tally Ho]

My marina does not have any likings between me and my slip mate (happens to be a 35’ power boat). I use a spring line, left attached to a dock cleat, with a loop I can grab and put on my cabin top winch. As long as I can get this line, I can come in slow.y under power, and the spring line will keep me from hitting the dock in front and keeps me up against my pier.

I came in single handed a few weeks ago, in a 30kt cross wind (of course blowing me into my neighbors boat. I put fenders put before getting in to the marina, and put an extra line on the opposite midship cleat in case I needed some help getting pulled off my neighbors boat.

Sure enough, I missed my loop, but brought the boat to a stop, and let her drift over to kiss up against my neighbors boat. Not a good feeling, but since I had fenders out, no harm done. A buddy pulled me off the neighbors boat with my extra line I ran before hand.

I left a note on my neighbors boat to let him know I kissed up against him, and wanted to have him check out his boat. No harm done.

I am good coming in in most cases, but a strong north wind will push me away from my pier and into my neighbors boat. I need to refine my loop system a bit, get it more “reachable” when coming in solo, but other than that, I think I will be ok. With no pilings, I can’t rig anything to keep me off my neighbors boat.

Greg

PS...I am better friends with my slipmate now! Our first introduction was me stopping in to say say, “hi, I am the guy who hit your boat and left you a note”. He was pretty cool about the whole thing.

 

[uralite]

Dear Ward,

Lots of advice here, take mine for what its worth. I worked on 125' sailing ships with single screws, and after trying to pull the bow in with a 1.5" line, I learned how they manage lines for control. I have grown to love my stern spring on the Cat 30 as I learned from large vessels with single stern screw and poor steerage at slow speeds. In my dock I have the advantage of coming in with starboard side to the dock as it does give me the advantage of reverse propwash pulling stern to dock as I slow, but it doesn't matter which for stern spring line to act as a single handers friend, especially when being blown off the dock. As you come into the dock, pck up and hook stern springline around the main winch and leave in slowest forward idle speed possible and turn rudder to port. This brings the entire boat port side to against fenders and holds it there while safely and carefully stepping off the dock to tie all springs, bow and stern lines. The only problem is when someone tries to "help" by pulling in on bow line which totally bungs up the process.

For reversal out of slip or dock, I leave bow/midship springline running to aft cleat, back down on it in reverse, this swings my bow in the direction I want to go, then I leave it on dock. Boat handling with springlines makes you look super salty and prevents out of control.

Hope that helps, E

 

[Tally Ho]

Good point about leaving the slip. I also use my loop to hold the boat (in idle forward ) and I can drop all other lines, even in a strong cross wind.

Start backing out, and throw the loop back over a hook for easy access when I get back.

Greg

 

[Gunni]

Don Street demonstrates what Uralite describes:

 

[capta]

Have you tried backing in? Once you get the hang of backing into the slip you may find you have a lot more control of the boat.
Being in the stern when backing in, it's easier, especially as a singlehander, to simply slip the docking spring line's eye splice (other end is already made off on the boat) over a dock cleat. Once you have a spring secured you can hold her against the dock with the engine for as long as it takes you to get all the other lines secured, no matter the wind and/or current. Then you just pop her out of gear and put on your permanent spring line. No messy bridles and no trusting some fancy arrangement of lines. Simply one single spring line and the engine. Its also a lot better for visibility as you have everything laid out in front of you and nothing hiding the dock.
There have been a good number of slips that were extremely troublesome to get into in forward that I found were much easier to back into.

 

[Ward H]

You know the hazards are there, like the boat that got run over, so something HAS to change in the name of decent seamanship.

Decent seamanship and just being a good neighbor is exactly why I'm asking here. He's a real good guy, a local and helps keep an eye on our boats. We've become friends and I intend to keep it this way.
He usually hangs a fender but I don't want to rely on his doing so. I also hang one after I'm tied up. I tried putting out fenders prior to entering my slip in the past. They easily got caught on the pilings as I came in but I'll give it another try.

I'll also look at hanging a fender or two on the line between the slips.

@Gunni
I have permanent dock lines tied to the pilings that are either preset loops or marked where they should be cleated. Once tied up I have no problems keeping off his boat. It is just while entering the slip.
I am considering your comment about forgetting the bridal. It doesn't seem to be a popular idea.

If you keep your starboard midship springline onboard, slip it on the aft piling as you come in. Keep the throttle in gear and your helm kick slightly to port. You will stay against the starboard dock. Then get your stern line on.

I've been picking the spring line off the dock. It's when I miss that I ding the dock. I'll try this instead as well as keeping the wheel to port and going for the stern line first.

@Tally Ho
@uralite
Your comments reinforce what Will said. I need to come up with a surefire way to pick up the spring line, be it I keep it on the boat and drop it over the piling or leave it on the dock in a way I can't miss picking it up.
Then forward gear in idle with rudder to port and go for the stern line next.
If I can't leave some fenders hanging between the two slips I'll try hanging them on my port side before entering the slip.

 

[justsomeguy]

Bridle, not bridal. Nobody's getting married.

 

[Will Gilmore]

keeping the wheel to port and going for the stern line first.

That maneuver will put your bow into your neighbor, if I'm reading your comment right.

The spring line trick works because it holds you from driving into the end of your slip while swinging tighter against the finger dock on your starboard side because the prop is forcing it to. The port rudder is necessary to keep your stern from swinging out. You should be able to lay against the dock, with just a midship spring line running aft, all day long like that. Higher winds may require a little throttle.
If you pickup the stern line first, then only the stern is pulled in to the dock, adding port rudder will just make it worse.
Setup your midship spring and run it back to the cockpit. You will hardly have to move away from the helm to grab the loop and drop it over the piling as you come in. The only real problem will be trying to enter the slip with a strong port side wind. It could push you off the dock before your cockpit is even with your piling. In that case, run the loop forward and drop it early before the wind takes you away, then back to the helm and proceed as planned. Only turn the rudder just as you come in contact with the dock. Otherwise, the stern may kick in before the rest of the boat and you lose your angle on the spring.

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[victorhoisington]

So kissing the dock is not big deal, as long as you are in slow forward. However, I like the proposal mentioned earlier by uralite, midship spring line, slow ahead rudder full over to port. Once you are secured to the dock you can actually walk to pick up all other lines using your boat hook.

I use this method on my Islander 41, we have fingers on both sides however, the bowsprit must clear my neighbors stern and our freeboard is too high for anyone to safely get off the boat. So all docking and lines must be reachable via my boat hook. Docking is done at minimal speed, slow ahead, I set the forward spring on the boat steps for easy pickup by the boat hook as we move past. Once the spring is picked up via the boat hook, Crew then walks to the bow and secures the spring line. Set rudder over to port and tighten up on the spring. I could accomplish the same via an aft spring to the main winch if single handing. I can then either have crew or if by myself, leave the helm to pick up other dock lines (bow and stern). Once secured, bow and stern, then crew can walk off the boat safely to make any final adjustments. If I miss the spring for some reason, no issues I can either back out OR simply put the bow into the dock, set the rudder over to port and then recover any needed dock lines. Yes the boat touches the dock but that is what it is for, and it doesn't cause any damage to either.

 

[JRT]

Ward I have not much to add but I did ask our local instructor on why she backs into her slip, the reason was more control. Her setup is very similar to yours and she had me dock the boat once and I did like the control. There was a spring line forward which was key to pickup to stop moving backward to keep the stern off the dock. It worked very well and no issue with kissing the the neighbor.

 

[uralite]

Dear Ward,

If I had a piling I could drop my midship/stern springline on as I come in I would be golden!! Even if it is a seperate one you use just for entering slip its totally worth it. I think Will and I are saying the same thing, but I may be incorrectly calling it a stern springline. Stern/midship spring runs from the dock aft of the boat where stern line begins to limit forward travel of boat at the slip. Not sure if Will is referring to this as midship spring, same thing in my mind, but midship is actually correct. The bow spring runs from the bow line point on dock to amidships to prevent boat from moving aft in slip.

My dock has eye bolts without rings as tie off points!! Agghh, it requires me to leave the boat and haul a** to get that spring on. Not an awesome set up, but it force me to set up well, and as always try to look very salty and calm as I do it. I damn near broke my ankle in the spring when I stepped on one because I did not see it, stupid eye bolt without a ring? How about a post or at least a cleat!!

On a Catalina 30, the propwash that pulls stern to port in reverse is pretty strong. Your dock space layout does not allow this to help you as you come in. If you come in hot, and thrust in reverse, you will easily miss the stern/midship spring. Plus I see that you are making a fairly tight turn to starboard to turn into the slip. That is tough.

Originally the owner had starboard side to dock, this really was awful for docking and I encouraged her to turn opposite so docking in prevailing winds would be much easier as it took advantage of propwash. Not sure this set up would work with your slip, but I will admit it makes me look way more pro.

I have never seen backing into a slip with springs, intriguing. Maybe a you tube visit for me?

 

[Tally Ho]

Dear Ward,
My dock has eye bolts without rings as tie off points!! Agghh, it requires me to leave the boat and haul a** to get that spring on. Not an awesome set up, but it force me to set up well, and as always try to look very salty and calm as I do it. I damn near broke my ankle in the spring when I stepped on one because I did not see it, stupid eye bolt without a ring? How about a post or at least a cleat!!

Can you leave a spring line tied off on a tie point, and grab that line when you come in?

I have a line tied off on the dock, with a loop at the other end, sized to the right length, so it stops me before I hit the dock. I keep that line on a little Shepard’s hook mounted at the end of my finger pier. I can grab it by hand most days, or with a boat hook if I don’t set up right. Once I grab the rope, put the loop over a winch, and proceed in slow ahead.

Greg

 

[Ward H]

Don Street demonstrates what Uralite describes:

Thanks for that link. I was stuck on dropping the spring line spliced eye over the winch. The video shows exactly what I need to do.

That maneuver will put your bow into your neighbor, if I'm reading your comment right.

Will, that paragraph was too wordy. Here are the steps I'll try:
Forward gear in idle, wheel to port.
Pick up the spring line placing it on winch per video.
Cleat off the stern line.

@capta
@John Tubb
@uralite
I hadn't considered backing in. No one does because of the finger piers except for a couple of power boats. Marina was built as a sailing marina.
But, we are in one of only two slips with a wide side dock instead of a finger pier. (The side dock was built for use as a fuel dock that did not happen). This might work. I need to try it.

@Tally Ho
FYI, uralite was the one with the eye bolts. I have all pilings except for one cleat my neighbor added for me to use.
However, the idea is a good one.

 

[Claude L.-Auger]

Ward, I sail solo as well and while we don't have pilings, my docking situation is similar to yours only on the opposite side as I have a short finger pier on port and a boat as big as mine on starboard. With not enough room in between both boats for fenders on each until docked. Problem coming in when wind coming from port side was solved easily: I installed a permanent 3' dock fender in front of my boat. When coming in, I idle in forward gear until bow is pushing against front dock fender, then turn wheel to starboard which brings port side against my finger pier. I then have all the time in the world to step on the dock (boat still in gear and wheel locked) and go secure my dock lines without touching the other boat. When dock lines are secured, I climb back in, put engine in neutral, and finish positioning the boat exactly where it needs to be by adjusting dock lines properly. Good luck