Handling Issues while docking

Ward H

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Nov 7, 2011
3,653
Catalina 30 Mk II Barnegat, NJ
@Claude L.-Auger
Nice solution. I might be able to make this work. At least a dock fender will soften a hit if I miss the spring line.
Thanks
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,086
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Ward, who stole my bimini?! When you figure it out, you can teach me … we've got the same problem. Ward is not explaining that the wind is the primary problem. When we get lined up and come in, we have a very narrow opportunity for success before the 15 to 20 knot wind and the wave action that seems to be constant is pushing either the bow or the stern rapidly to our port side. I don't have anybody to bump into on my port side, so it isn't as stressful for me. The fellow with the nice Hunter 310 between us was cruising on Long Island Sound when Ward's photo was taken. When he comes in, his bow nests into the finger pier on his port side and his rear quarter rests nicely against the piling as the wind secures him in a comfortable position, so he can place his lines at leisure. We don't have that opportunity. Of course, even when the wind is contrary, he doesn't seem to have any problem, he just knows what he's doing! :biggrin::biggrin:
 
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Aug 3, 2012
2,542
Performance Cruising Telstar 28 302 Watkins Glen
Look up the ASA videos on Springing a boat into and out of a slip. In my thinking, a cradle is worthless. Line will not stop a 10,000 lb boat in the configuration. I used to have one when I was anxious. No more.
Get the aft starboard line over a cleat as you enter the slip, so it can keep your bow up against the dock while you tie the starboard bow lines. Keep the motor idling in gear. Spring lines are different than springing. Your aft spring line keeps the bow off the dock. It is not to keep the boat snug against the dock. It has no angle for that. You don’t need a bow spring line, as you don’t have a wall, boat, dock, or other stationary object behind you. Your bow and stern lines should be routed to give the best angle to keep the boat off of the neighbor and dock. Next, you cross them if there are tides, so the boat can rise and fall.
As you exit, tie a line to your port stern cleat. Loop it around the port stern piling. Run it back to the cleat. Belay it off the cleat as you back out. It will hold the port stern and allow the bow to swing around to starboard. Release the line from your belay and haul it back on board. I watch a 70 year old couple execute these two manuevers perfectly. She drives, he springs the lines. They enter and exit flawlessly.
In high wind off the starboard tha prevents you turning upwind to enter or exit, consider backing down the fairway, so you can use the wind to your advantage.
 
Jan 19, 2010
1,172
Catalina 34 Casco Bay
When you " know" you're going to be docking in a difficult place to both enter and exit remember that until you have water across the rudder there is little or no control. If you back in you will initially have little control, but as you go control will increase. Then you'll be bow out and have much better control leaving.
 
Oct 2, 2008
3,807
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
Looking at your drawing, what if your bridle containment lines were back just a bit so you could come in at speed and it would catch you before you tapped the dock?
 

Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
When we get lined up and come in, we have a very narrow opportunity for success before the 15 to 20 knot wind and the wave action that seems to be constant is pushing either the bow or the stern rapidly to our port side.
Then I would recommend the procedure of using a spring line while under power as described in the video I posted up thread.

It works well even when you have a cross wind. You could do this rather neatly by looping a dedicated docking spring line around a pile and have a pre-set loop on the boat side that you simply drop over your starboard winch. Powering forward idle will pin you to the starboard side dock while you get your dock lines tied off.
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,086
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Then I would recommend the procedure of using a spring line while under power as described in the video I posted up thread.
I watched it and it should do well for Ward. He has the full length of the dock and I think he has a winch that is far enough forward. I have to emphasize that the maneuvers have to be simple enough to accomplish quickly because the wind really shortens the opportunity to get it right. I'm always amused by the videos because they usually show a maneuver performed in breathless conditions. Of course it looks good and simple. I never see these things performed in real-world conditions when you have a gale pushing the boat around as soon as way-on is coming to a halt. Plus, there is another guy at the helm (they almost manage to conceal that in the video) and a guy on the dock to secure the line. A beautifully maneuvered docking during breathless conditions with 3 guys … Imagine that! ;);)

His photo also shows my boat. As you can see, I don't have a dock and the finger pier (you can't see it in the photo) is short. It ends far short of mid-ship. If I was to pull my boat in to the stbd side, I'd be bouncing off our neighbor's boat - he happens to be absent in the photo (he does have a fender out, usually). Also, as seen in the photo, my winch is pretty far back and isn't much better positioned than the stern cleat. I don't have a mid ships cleat.

The difficulty I have is that I give the boat hook to Sue so she can grab a dock line on the finger pier and slip it on the bow cleat. We have to come in fast enough to avoid being pushed by wind and waves, which means I've got my hands full with steering and throttle / gear controls. I have to glide in, reverse, throttle and steer and get it just right to come to a stop. If Sue is successful at the bow, the stern quickly blows away from the stbd-side piling (usually too fast for me to grab anything) and I'm lucky if I can grab the port-side piling before I'm blown right by it. Sometimes I catch the piling but she has failed to catch a line at the bow and the bow goes swinging to port. Often, there is somebody around to catch the bow pulpit, which saves our bacon and is a big help! (Often it's Ward!)

I think I need to set up some nice-sized loops with rope on the finger pier and the stbd side piling that both Sue and I can grab more easily, each with our own boat hook, just so we can keep the boat still while we grab dock lines. Trying to hook a dock line just right with the boat hook is often hit or miss because the boat blows away too quickly to get more than 1 brief shot at it. Aside from that, footing is very difficult in my small cockpit, especially when the bimini limits headroom and the ability to reach outside the boat. Just reaching and holding something outside the boat is a trick much more easily said than done - and I'm pretty nimble!

Obviously, I'm describing the condition we face with a wind that makes it difficult. That's really the point of the thread. I don't think either Ward or myself have any particular problem docking when the wind isn't a factor. It's just that we seem to always be dealing with the wind.

There is one advantage with the wind … it blows the greenheads away. I'm often surprised how aggressively they swarm around us at the car and around the clubhouse. We walk out on our dock, and they are much less a problem because of the wind.
 
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Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
I have to emphasize that the maneuvers have to be simple enough to accomplish quickly because the wind really shortens the opportunity to get it right. I'm always amused by the videos because they usually show a maneuver performed in breathless conditions. Of course it looks good and simple. I never see these things performed in real-world conditions when you have a gale pushing the boat around as soon as way-on is coming to a halt. Plus, there is another guy at the helm (they almost manage to conceal that in the video) and a guy on the dock to secure the line. A beautifully maneuvered docking during breathless conditions with 3 guys … Imagine that! ;);)
Since you’ve never done it, and because Don Street charted most of the Windward Islands (which did not get their names by being breathless), why don’t you give it a try before you decide it doesn’t work, or scare your wife off?
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,782
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Obviously, I'm describing the condition we face with a wind that makes it difficult. That's really the point of the thread. I don't think either Ward or myself have any particular problem docking when the wind isn't a factor. It's just that we seem to always be dealing with the wind.
Your last two sentences contradict each other.

Of course the videos show the operation in windless days. The PURPOSE of the videos is to show you the technique, not to show you the wind.

What those of use who have mastered these techniques have always done is to do them when IT IS NOT BLOWING, repeatedly, and learn not only the how, but the WHY of what makes them work. It also, in many cases, begins to build muscle memory, so when you really, really need to do it quickly and efficiently, you actually can.

When it's not windy is perfect to start setting up the lines YOU need to have on YOUR dock for YOUR use. Waiting til the wind blows simply is not the time to start learning this stuff.
 
Oct 22, 2014
21,145
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
I know you are working on the system to come back into your pre-setup slip.
The spring line docking technique when visiting a dock may also be used or at the least incorporated into your skill set. I use it all the time. Learned it from this link. It is here called a Stern Bridle. When used correctly the crew can step (never jump) on to the dock and the boat stays still as long as the motor is at idle and gear in forward.
 
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Aug 3, 2012
2,542
Performance Cruising Telstar 28 302 Watkins Glen
Well, you have managed to dock without significant damage, so why not try small steps toward springing into your slip. Just practice slipping a line at first. Then make the line a little active. Then make it do work!
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,086
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Since you’ve never done it, and because Don Street charted most of the Windward Islands (which did not get their names by being breathless), why don’t you give it a try before you decide it doesn’t work, or scare your wife off?
Well, I've already acknowledged (and I think Ward did, too) that it is feasible at his end of the dock and he was going to work on it. It's not feasible at my slip. I don't have a dock at the aft end of the boat. I'd be pulling my boat into contact with my neighbor's boat (I doubt he would appreciate that). It is impossible for anybody to stand in the water next to the piling and catch the line as I toss it. It is also not feasible to catch a line hanging from the piling while I am actively steering and throttling my way into a position where Sue can hook a line at the bow. Other than those problems, I'm sure it would work fine! ;) I could give it a try when I am docking somewhere else, though. When I pull into a marina for fuel, there is usually somebody around to help.
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,086
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Of course the videos show the operation in windless days. The PURPOSE of the videos is to show you the technique, not to show you the wind.
Yes, that's great! The technique shows a guy standing on the dock next to the piling ready to catch a line and place it over the end of the piling. Don also has somebody steering and throttling at the helm while he is standing at the winch able to wrap the line with both hands! The video does show us how a line wrapped around a piling and a winch helps to corral a boat into a dock. Wow! I don't think I would have ever thought of that on my own! ;)
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,086
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
I know you are working on the system to come back into your pre-setup slip.
The spring line docking technique when visiting a dock may also be used or at the least incorporated into your skill set. I use it all the time. Learned it from this link. It is here called a Stern Bridle. When used correctly the crew can step (never jump) on to the dock and the boat stays still as long as the motor is at idle and gear in forward.
That looks useful if I can find a way to catch a piling with it. I think it might also help Sue catch the bow without having to reach for a line on the dock. Then we can attach pre-set lines when everything is stable.
 
Oct 22, 2014
21,145
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
we can attach pre-set lines when everything is stable.
Yes. That is the beauty of the technique.

Now if you talk to @LeslieTroyer , when we came into the dock last year, I showed him my skills. The boat was still moving forward to tighten the spring line. He dropped the step to the dock. The step had a line attached to the boat to prevent the step from sinking. Les went to step off the boat while it was still settling against the dock. He stepped off, the line grabbed the step, I saw him disappearing beneath the boat rail. I jumped up to try and pull him back aboard or at the least stop him from drowning between the boat and the dock. He is sprawled out on the dock. Safe but scrapped up a bit. To this day he claims I pulled the step out from under his feet.

Moral.. Do not jump off the boat. Wait till it is stopped and settled, not moving. Then step on to the dock. Civilized and all that.
 

Ward H

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Nov 7, 2011
3,653
Catalina 30 Mk II Barnegat, NJ
I tried a variation of the stern bridle a couple of weeks ago. I couldn't make it work but after viewing the video again I realize where I went wrong. I'm going to try it again.
@Scott T-Bird I can see Sue using this technique to lasso the starboard bow dock piling. Or maybe something on the finger pier?
I tried the John Street line handling method with wheel to port yesterday. The bow swung away to port and nearer my neighbors boat. I didn't get to play with it long as the biting flies were awful.
Wouldn't I want the helm to starboard? That makes more sense in my mind. I didn't get to try it yesterday but will on Sunday.
I'm now agreeing with Gunni and Andrew that the bridle won't contain the C30. It hasn't so far so it will be removed.
@agprice22 I'll be looking up those videos.
 
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Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
Try it with the rudder midships and lowest slow forward. Think you are carrying too much heat into the slip. Steady, not fast.