Handling Issues while docking

[jssailem]

Ward, it is about the physics/geometry.
Secure the line ahead of the pivot point. Run the line out to the dock. Then run it back to the boat behind the pivot point.
Pull the line in to the boat and put it in forward and idle. The boat will pull forward til the line aft is at 90 to the dock point. Then the boat will be pulled snug to the dock.
Turn the wheel to point the prop wash away from the dock and the stern will snug up tight and leverage the bow in. Turn the prop wash away from the dock and the bow will move towards the dock stern out. Movement fore and aft is restricted by the line.
The boat side is the height, the line from the forward of pivot point to dock this the Hypotenuse, and the line aft of the pivot point to the boat forms a 90 degree angle to the boat.
It’s the blend of science nd sailing.

 

[Will Gilmore]

I tried the John Street line handling method with wheel to port yesterday. The bow swung away to port and nearer my neighbors boat.

I didn't really like his technique. He's trying to show the basic principles, but it looked, too me, like he just got close to the dock and pulled a midship line tight. That would work, especially with the engine in gear. If you have a midship cleat, attach a pre-measured spring line to it and bring the loop back to the cockpit with you.
The principles are pretty straight forward once you think about it in the right way. Image you loop your after midship spring over a piling on the starboard side and there was no dock. What would happen? The line would pull tight and the leverage from the width of your beam would begin to turn the boat to the side the springline was on, starboard. At the same time, you would start to swing the whole boat around the piling until you were driving in a counter clockwise circle around that post as your center point. Then put the dock back into the picture and the dock is what stops the boat from doing its circumnavigation of the piling. Only, it doesn't do a good job of keeping the stern from kicking out. That's why the counter turn rudder to port. However, if you start you're counter turn early, before the springline catches you and begins to draw you into the dock, you end up bow out and have a hard time recovering. In that case, reverse rudder is called for to kick the stern back out and bring the bow in. You will still need that counter rudder, once you are against the dock, to keep the stern in.

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[Davidasailor26]

The difficulty I have is that I give the boat hook to Sue so she can grab a dock line on the finger pier and slip it on the bow cleat. We have to come in fast enough to avoid being pushed by wind and waves, which means I've got my hands full with steering and throttle / gear controls. I have to glide in, reverse, throttle and steer and get it just right to come to a stop. If Sue is successful at the bow, the stern quickly blows away from the stbd-side piling (usually too fast for me to grab anything) and I'm lucky if I can grab the port-side piling before I'm blown right by it. Sometimes I catch the piling but she has failed to catch a line at the bow and the bow goes swinging to port. Often, there is somebody around to catch the bow pulpit, which saves our bacon and is a big help! (Often it's Ward!)

If I were in your position I'd run a line along the starboard side of the slip. As you come in have Sue use the boat hook to hold the bow up close to that line so it doesn't get blown down. That will give you extra time to focus on keeping the stern to starboard. As soon as you can grab the starboard stern line. Get a second boat hook if that helps. If you need to you could probably leave the wheel turned to port and walk forward to grab the line when it's at the front of the cockpit. As soon as you have that line secured then worry about the port port stern line while Sue cleans up the bow. Much harder to use that approach single handed but with 2 people I'd say it's worth a try.

 

[Ward H]

Secure the line ahead of the pivot point. Run the line out to the dock. Then run it back to the boat behind the pivot point.
Pull the line in to the boat and put it in forward and idle. The boat will pull forward til the line aft is at 90 to the dock point. Then the boat will be pulled snug to the dock.
Turn the wheel to point the prop wash away from the dock and the stern will snug up tight and leverage the bow in. Turn the prop wash away from the dock and the bow will move towards the dock stern out. Movement fore and aft is restricted by the line.

I tried this again this past weekend and came to the conclusion:
1. My currently available pivot points are too far aft.
2. I still don't have a good method for picking up the dock line or getting the piling using the rear bridle method.

I spent the past few days watching a lot of YouTube videos on docking and they support my first conclusion. I also found one that explains prop walk/prop wash so I finally understand that. This one was especially helpful.

Here is today's question.
One video said if you don't have a mid shipshape cleat, try putting a block on a shroud base or stanchion base. I'm leery about using those two attachment points. Are they strong enough?

Tomorrow I'm going to put a spare jib track car on the jib track positioned further forward and try using that as a pivot point. I also bought a "Docking Stick" which hopefully solves the problem of getting the line over the piling quickly.

@Gunni mentions I may be coming in too hot. I agree but I need to maintain speed for steering to keep from being blown below my slip or the bow being blown down.

 

[Ward H]

Ward, I sail solo as well and while we don't have pilings, my docking situation is similar to yours only on the opposite side as I have a short finger pier on port and a boat as big as mine on starboard. With not enough room in between both boats for fenders on each until docked. Problem coming in when wind coming from port side was solved easily: I installed a permanent 3' dock fender in front of my boat. When coming in, I idle in forward gear until bow is pushing against front dock fender, then turn wheel to starboard which brings port side against my finger pier. I then have all the time in the world to step on the dock (boat still in gear and wheel locked) and go secure my dock lines without touching the other boat. When dock lines are secured, I climb back in, put engine in neutral, and finish positioning the boat exactly where it needs to be by adjusting dock lines properly. Good luck

Claude,
In this video he uses your technique. I would like to try this but I have a bow sprit with bob stay. Not sure if it is wise to put that pressure on the bob stay.

 

[jssailem]

Just call the procedure Crash Docking...
Here is a graphic (crude) of the set up I use.


This I'll call the no crash docking technique.

 

[Claude L.-Auger]

Ward, I don't know about pressure on the bob stay, but isn't that bob stay there to compensate the pressure of the headstay itself at the forward end of the bow sprit ? If that is the case, I do not think there would be any problems so long as you didn't bang into the forward fender but eased into it at idle speed. Others with more experience with your type of set-up may chime in with better info. Unless you could put the fender where it would touch below the bob stay attachment on the bow ?

 

[Ward H]

Just call the procedure Crash Docking...
Here is a graphic (crude) of the set up I use.
View attachment 155908

Very good explanation John. I see you tie your line to the shroud base for the pivot point. I'll give that a try.

@Claude L.-Auger Our docks are fixed docks at a height where either the bobstay or bow sprit would be against the dock fender. I do like the idea of doing it this way so I'll talk to our rigger and see what he says.

 

[jssailem]

line to the shroud base for the pivot point.

Very close. The pivot point is the location on your boat about which the boat will revolve (pivot like a pinwheel on the water). It is somewhere between the cockpit and the mast. It is based on the length of your boat, the location and design of your keel, how the boat rides in the water and the shape of the hull.

Go out on the water and with some space and standing still rotate the boat in it's own length by turning the rudder hard in one direction and putting the motor in gear. You will get prop walk going as the wash hits against the rudder. The boat will start to spin. Take the boat out of gear. The momentum should continue the spin. Hit Reverse so you don't start to move. Then back to forward. You want spin not forward or reward movement. Alternating you should be able to spin the boat within roughly it's own length. We are using this ability to help us with control at the dock.

The attachment of the line needs to be closer to the bow then the pivot point. This line pulls on the bow half of the boat. It is pulling back at an angle towards the dock and the dock cleat. ]The side of the boat snugs up against the dock because the bow is being pulled. You fenders out and the stern is still out from the dock edge. You can control the boat angle by the prop and the rudder. Turn the rudder so the bow turns towards the dock and the bow moves inward. Turn the rudder so the bow move away from the dock and the stern moves inward. You can use this to position the boat. You can also use it to get the boat off the dock and away from the slip.
It is very handy.

 

[Ward H]

Very close. The pivot point is the location on your boat about which the boat will revolve (pivot like a pinwheel on the water). It is somewhere between the cockpit and the mast. It is based on the length of your boat, the location and design of your keel, how the boat rides in the water and the shape of the hull.

Thanks John.
I was thinking the pivot point was wherever you tied the line. This makes sense.

Go out on the water and with some space and standing still rotate the boat in it's own length by turning the rudder hard in one direction and putting the motor in gear. You will get prop walk going as the wash hits against the rudder. The boat will start to spin. Take the boat out of gear. The momentum should continue the spin. Hit Reverse so you don't start to move. Then back to forward. You want spin not forward or reward movement. Alternating you should be able to spin the boat within roughly it's own length. We are using this ability to help us with control at the dock.

Several people told me I could turn the C30 in its length but no one explained how to do it. I'll be practicing this.

The attachment of the line needs to be closer to the bow then the pivot point. This line pulls on the bow half of the boat. It is pulling back at an angle towards the dock and the dock cleat. ]The side of the boat snugs up against the dock because the bow is being pulled. You fenders out and the stern is still out from the dock edge. You can control the boat angle by the prop and the rudder. Turn the rudder so the bow turns towards the dock and the bow moves inward. Turn the rudder so the bow move away from the dock and the stern moves inward. You can use this to position the boat. You can also use it to get the boat off the dock and away from the slip.

This is all starting to come together in my mind. Now to make it come together on the water.

The current heat wave breaks tonight so I'm headed to the boat tomorrow morning to set up and practice with the spring line. I also have fenders I will hang permanently between my boat and my neighbors boat.

Thanks again.

 

[LeslieTroyer]

@jssailem sure likes his “Gilles” docking method. It works if you can get the line over a cleat on the dock. That has been my problem - poor aim or bullworks instead of cleats.

Les

 

[Ward H]

Update:
Made it to the boat on Friday. First thing I did was hang a couple of 8" fenders off the line separating my slip from my neighbor's slip. His boat is now well protected in the event I get blown into him.
Then I played with the "Gilles" method of a stern bridle ( @jssailem ) using different pivot points. I couldn't get this to work well. The line has to go around a piling instead of a cleat and I think that added too much friction.
What did work was a line with a bowline with large loop. I put the loop over the piling with the Docking Stick. Then ran the line through a block at the base of the forward shroud, back through a spare low lead car and the jib low lead car, to the winch.

I practiced entering the slip 6-7 times with this set up. The Docking Stick let me catch the piling each time, running the line back to the winch allowed me to easily adjust how far I was into the slip and using the prop wash I was able to position the boat where I wanted it.
I think this will setup will work very well for my slip.

I left the bridle in place. Even though it stretches too much to catch the boat coming in, it works pretty well for departing. I inched the boat forward until the bow was secured against the bridle, leaving the engine in forward at idle and prop wash to center the stern. This gave me plenty of time to drop all dock lines, then easily depart.

@LeslieTroyer I like the Docking Stick. Let's me easily reach the piling and put the loop over it. Faster than trying to pick up a line off the dock and more accurate than trying to lasso the piling.

Here's a photo of how I ran the line, taken after I put on other lines.


I plan to install a dedicated attachment point for the block or just a cleat, over the winter.

All the advice here gave me what I needed to solve my handling issues.

Thanks all!

 

[Stu Jackson]

Nice work, Ward. Now you'll have to teach Scott.

 

[LeslieTroyer]

@Stu Jackson have you figured out how to lasso bull rails yet??

 

[Stu Jackson]

@Stu Jackson have you figured out how to lasso bull rails yet??

Nope, but that grapnel hook is looking more & more inviting everyday.

 

[Hayden Watson]

I tried this again this past weekend and came to the conclusion:
1. My currently available pivot points are too far aft.

Ward, on my Mk2 C30 the docking pivot point is the primary winch. I have a line with a spliced eye on one end and a large loop on the other. The length between the eyes is such that when it is stretched tight my bow pulpit is 18" from the power pedestal when it is on the aft-most cleat on my finger pier. When docking I drop the spliced eye on the winch and use the boat hook to drop the big loop over the dock cleat. I came in this past week with 10+ knots of wind 90º off the dock and single tied with no drama. the only change to my normal procedure was that I needed about 1200 rpms to pull it over to the dock instead of the normal idle.

 

[Hayden Watson]

@Stu Jackson have you figured out how to lasso bull rails yet??

I was going to say grapple hook but you beat me to it.

 

[jssailem]

That is great Ward. I have not used the method on a piling. Perhaps there is too much friction. You have a lot of the same geometry at play with your loop and forward motion. The bow is pulled to starboard as you try to motor forward against the line.

@LeslieTroyer I have used it on the end of a bull rail with success. Not the middle.

I like the grapple hook idea @Hayden Watson
@Stu Jackson is a wizard at getting on and off a dock. He could pull in between two multi million dollar yachts and while there crew is running around with fenders, he'll jump to the dock get his business done and escape like Houdini.

 

[Stu Jackson]

@Stu Jackson is a wizard at getting on and off a dock. He could pull in between two multi million dollar yachts and while there crew is running around with fenders, he'll jump to the dock get his business done and escape like Houdini.

Too kind. As Les may attest, I was HORRIBLE in Ganges in July. Simply horrible, starboard side to, being blown off the dock. Bull rails. The savior was the deck hand who muscled me in.

Honesty...

 

[jssailem]