And so it begins

[25yearslater]

Well that went nowhere fast. While the equipment was fantastic, yours truly bought screws a bit too short. Having purchased a box of 100 for about $6.00 they are only slightly long enough to grab. Any extra thickness in the deck thickness and they don't grab. Oh well a new box at 1 inch long will be here Tuesday. 5/8 inch isn't quite enough. I am happy to report the flexible screwdriver extension Mcmaster part #85255A11 for $8.17 does a yoeman's job of driving the screws even at the most extreme hull curvature. The flange head screws sit in the end a bit loose so some masking tape layed over the end before inserting the screw into the bit gives a snug fit to keep those little buggers from falling out when you're reaching into a blind area. This is one of those moments when an inspection mirror saves some outrageous contortions to see the holes. All in all not bad. Gee I cut that board three times and it's still too short. Measure twice cut once as the saying goes.

 

[JonnyQuest]

Did you order teak rails for your companionway hatch or make them yourself? I've got squealing hatch syndrome too.

 

[25yearslater]

Hi Jonny. Oh no the dread squealing hatch. Man alive of all the things to contend with I found that the most irritating. In answer to your question I did puchase a 2" X 10" X 10' piece of teak. It was rough cut so it is sold by the eight quarter size and board foot. A board foot equals 1" X 12" X 12" for those who are unaware of this measurement system. This was enough for the two hatch runners and eight toe rails which I cut on my table saw. I used a Dado blade set at 1/4" and moved my fence 1/8" to finish the slot at 3/8". After this I used a 1/4" roundover bit in my router with the bearing guide. If you make them yourself run the bearing along the top of the rail on the slotted side as the bearing can easily drop into the slot. The teak cost about 350.00 but the cost of all new rails and hatch slides was well over 1000.00. The table saw is a cheap craftsman that I have used throughout this project and was about 150.00 and the router was another hundred. A bit was 20.00 so I'm way ahead. After the cutting and routing a quick sanding to smooth it out with an 80 then 150 grit and brand new teak as good as anything you can buy for less than half the cost. Hope this answers the question and gives you a good excuse to buy power tools as any Admiral loves a savings.

 

[SailingCal21]

Definitely the way to go as far as replacing your teak. I can't cut a straight line much less a curved one, however have several friends who build furniture with some kick-butt woodworking equipment, they just love to cut wood. Particularly exotic woods like teak with challenging cuts such as sliders and grab rails.

 

[25yearslater]

Hey Cal, if you have these kinds of friends you are in great shape. Most everything was straight cuts so friends with power tools is a great way to save even more money. I'm not a big fan of table saws as I worked with a guy who was down to his last three fingers using them. I might have thought the first six would have taught him to keep your hands away from the blade. Use pusher sticks and feather boards and above all else be careful.

 

[jibes138]

Table Saw and Safety

Hey you guys. I was concerned for my maintenance crew at work so I bought a new table saw that is guaranteed to be able to sense a human finger and the instant the blade senses a finger it automatically retracts and shuts down. I saw it demonstrated on a hot dog and it only made a little cut in the hot dog then dramatically retracted the blade. You might bleed a little but keep your fingers. Quite impressive. I did not risk trying it out on a new finger. I'll try to search the net and see if I can find it again. Here is the movie of the hot dog. Saw is called "SawStop"
http://www.sawstop.com/how-it-works/brake-activation/

 

[25yearslater]

Mother in law, son of an aardvark and a litany of other things. The one inch screws managed to act like a blooming wedge and split two of the toerails wide open. So after a trip to Pittsford Lumber and bringing home an eight quarter board the table saw was busy again. I've seen those rapid stop saws you are talking about jibes. I have never seen anyone actually try it with a finger though. Sorta like fire insurance, one of those things you hope you never need. So with a couple of new rails and a few other things I figured I whip up all is ready for another attempt. The problem is bending it into position and marking the holes for predrilling. I have a way I think might work well. Scotch tape, a marker and some 8-32 X 3/4 hanger bolts in 18-8 stainless made by Midwestern Fasteners. I'll be contacting one of their distributors tomorrow to latch on to some. Once I get this worked out I'll be posting the how to or another tirade. So while progress has slowed it is continuing.

 

[SailingCal21]

Yes, table saws are scary, I give them lots of respect. If the blade's teeth don't get you the kickback from the cut wood will. I definitely use a push bar and stand to the side when ripping.

Sorry to hear that your new toerails split during the install. Was it simply that the pilot holes weren't large enough?

 

[25yearslater]

Hi Sailing Cal. I didn't predrill pilot holes. Didn't much figure the need with #8 screws. Silly me. I have plenty of scrap so I'm experimenting with some diffent ideas. The stainless hanger bolts were only available in zinc plated so that idea went down in flames, call of the search, no survivors. Teak has one amazing attribute though. The stuff is hard as steel, well aluminum anyway and can be drilled and tapped with remarkable results. Once the epoxy cures I'll try busting the screws free. Should this prove out, I do know stainless set screws are readily available. One problem I have identified is the imperfections in the screw seating areas. As the area on the bottom side is less than flat the screws were free to pull in or outboard as they were screwed tight. I surmise this contributed to the splitting. With nuts I hope to be able to control the torque enough to seat them securely and with the epoxy bond the teak will prevent the splitting. The drilling and tapping should keep them central in the teak which I think will also help. As the first mate on the Page used to say, "More soon we gonna know."

 

[jibes138]

Huh

Sounds like you've got a couple of loose screws there 25 years. A picture ot two would help to explain. Why would you drive a number 8 screw into a teak board without at least a countersink for the head of the screw?

 

[25yearslater]

Nope! Epoxied holes with the fine thread didn't work. Pulled right out when tightened. Soooo, we screwed down another piece with the 5/8ths to mark the holes. Some of the holes in the deck have revealed to a certainty that these things were installed prior to the deck being fitted to the hull. Oh sure what a way to cheat. By using the 5/8ths long screws I can now pre drill for a longer screw but it shouldn't be necessary. On closer examination the angle that doomed the 5/8ths long screws from holding was the hull deck joint that often angled the screw and shortened it to the point of barely grabbing at all. Most engaged by 3/8ths inch which is sufficient based on the original screw length. Part of the previous problem was also the step necessary to overlap the rise in the deck. The toerails were in a recess at the edge. If the screw drifted inboard more then an eighth of an inch it simply didn't have enough wood in which to bite. A Dremel and burr to elongate the holes slightly inboard to clear the hull joint is sufficient to establish a surface that allows the screw to engage without sliding into the step. Here are the pictures of the test pieces and the pull out of the screws. The step measures 1/8th X 1/8 with a slight radius sanded to allow a good fit with the recess radius.

 

[25yearslater]

Here is one that worked like a charm. Enlarge a hole with a holesaw when there is a previous hole. The cowl vents I purchased from the SBO Store require a 3-3/8" hole. Trouble was the previous hole was 3". An adapter for the holesaw was just the ticket. I used a piece of delrin I had laying around but some heavy shipping tube or PVC in a couple of sizes should work as well. Fit the holesaw snug on it's inside with the adapter. Then remove and turn it down the portion that sticks out beyond the edge of the holesaw with a lathe, file or what have you. You can drill it out and use a bolt and nut that fit in a drill for this part. The real trick once the arbor is made is to hand turn the holesaw backwards with a ratchet on the hex. This will cut gently until you are sufficiently deep to reverse and cut normally. If at anytime the saw grabs, just run it backwards for a while once again. Don't even think about using a power tool as a grab and jump can louse up a gelcoat or paint job in short order. Here's the pics of this dodad.

 

[jibes138]

Just to be clear, you used a piece of stock to fit the existing hole to pilot the hole saw and then cut the hole by using a wrench on the hole saw instead of a drill? How long did it take to use this method for the actual cutting? You could also rig up a water jet cutter with a robot and program it to the hole size you want and it would cut that hole in seconds. The set up time would be long but the actual cutting time would be reduced a lot. Might cost more than the boat is worth though.

 

[25yearslater]

I love it jibes.My employer wasn't willing to let me borrow the Motoman robot. Silly production schedules or something trivial like that. What I did was turn the plug to the existing hole size on one end and the I.D. of the holesaw on the other. I was too lazy to change over to my 4 jaw chuck as my 3 jaw is too small for the stock so I drilled a hole through it and put a cap screw in and chucked up on that. The step keeps it nice and square to the surface. The wrench method only took about 10 minutes per hole. It also prevented the possibility of friction welding the plug to YOT.

 

[jibes138]

Hey, just an idea. Why not set up some chairs and let people pay admission to sit and drink beer while they watch you work? I'd love to watch you rigging up all these doohickeys to solve assorted problems.
You should teach all these tricks to the next generation of mechanical geniuses before anyone is left in this country capable of doing anything except texting. Might be a spot for you at some community college. Meanwhile I am heading back to the Roger Long forum, he is now in South Carolina and dangling his feet in the water to attract gators.

 

[25yearslater]

Hi again jibes. That sure would help offset the cost of this project. Glad I didn't go for a 39 or something. I'm still well under the 3 X aquisition cost. The community college thing might be a great way to start my next career. I don't believe people are less capable today but they sure are mentally lazy. I am reminded of that fantastic phrase that Hardy Kruger uttered to Richard Attenborough about James Stewart in, "Flight of the Phoenix." "That's precisely the problem, he has remembered everything and learned nothing." Being taught as opposed to learning doesn't compel one to apply knowledge. Ask people the following question: You see a man walk into the street and is flattened by a red car. What do you learn from this. 8 out of ten will say don't walk in front of red cars never mind the Kenworth or something comming along. Anyway, the teak is being affixed with great success using the 1" screws. When situated correctly, with them hitting the center of the toerail, everything goes quite well. And get this, the stupid forward hatch was factory mounted crooked. When I set up the nonskid deck I made sure everything was symetrical from the center line. When I went to mount the foredeck hatch I discovered the thing had been mounted 3/8" closer to the port side. Oh well an easy fix with 2" hinges vs. 1.5" which I will get some pictures of when they arrive.

 

[jibes138]

Options

25 yearslater have you thought about options for your sailboat? Items such as surround sound speakers, giant sub woofer, 500 watt amp, etc?

I was toying around with the idea for these anchor windlasses a while back. The ones for boats are up in the thousand dollar range. The ones you put on the front of a truck and call it a winch are a hundred bucks. How about you install a nice bracket and plug then pull it out when you need it put it in the bracket, plug it in and SHAZAM you have a windlass.

 

[25yearslater]

Jiiiiibesss, don't be tempting me now. My Oday 22 had a custom sound system that quite easily announced my presence even in the thickest fog and made me something of a pariah in sailing circles. Sure was fun though. So tonight half the toerails are complete. Set up with 5/8ths long, remove, drill 5/8ths deep pilot hole, caulk and install with 1" long #8 flange head screws. The stantion bases? Holy moley the embeded tee nuts are amazingly strong. The mate was playing man overboard hanging off of them with no movement at the deck. The two outboard screws are through bolted so a 'special' wrench is in order. Bend a 7/16ths wrench about 1" from the end to around 70 to 80 degrees. Ya gotta heat it to do this or buy a cheap soft wrench if there is such a thing. When you heat it, it must reach an orange color so a trip to a muffler shop for a oxy/acetylene torch setup is the ticket. While there, have them put a touch of braze or if you have arc welding equipment a spot on the bottom ( inside of the curve ) to keep the nut from falling through. Tip: Secure the washer to the nut and wrench with some modeling clay. It keeps everything in place while you position the nut and washer under the screw and around the cabin liner ledge. It works great and eliminates a pantload of cursing and swearing when the washer continues to fall at your feet. And tonight a fellow 27 owner asked about the 'door' that separates the head from v berth area. it's a simple accordian door that attaches to 'wiremold' on top and the trim to port. Have a great night everybody. More lunacy to come.

 

[SailingCal21]

Toe rail looks great!

 

[jibes138]

Ohhhhh Grass...hopper, Bending wrenches is quite easy with no heat at all. Just go to Walmart and buy some wrenches. Guaranteed they will be made of low carbon steel, about the same strength as aluminum and easily bent in a vice. Harbor Freight wrenches will likely fit the bill as well. Don't try this with Snap - on or Craftsman wrenches without the annealing process though.