And so it begins

[25yearslater]

Welcome aboard shipmate. Sacandaga huh? The Admiral is from Ft. Edward/Glens Falls near Lake George. Glad this thread is such a resource, it makes it worthwhile. Not sure about cleaning the hull liner. Do you have the original foam and fabric or the replacement Ozite (carpet) liner? The foam and fabric might prove a pip to clean with the foam that was original nearing the end of it's life. Nasty stuff actually. The Ozite might be easier with a cleaner applied with a garden sprayer and removed with a wet or dry shop vac. 110 power at a dock perhaps during the cleaning. There are a few threads on this subject in the forums that you can search out. If anyone else has a suggestion feel free to post it here. I have been so focused on tear it out and start over I'm not the best source. Again welcome.

 

[Ionheaven]

Thanks for the welcome and for your tips. I believe the hull liner is the original foam and fabric and I will check out the forum threads as you suggested. Our boat should arrive here on Wednesday night and if all goes well she'll launch on Thursday. I'll be posting more photos soon. Thanks again!

 

[25yearslater]

What a crap day sailing. 1 dead battery. Snapped throttle lever when stepping down into cockpit after adjusting outhaul. 2 crewmembers yacking up their lunch. Best of all was discovering the channel into the harbor had shallowed. The sound of your keel plowing rocks is just a really, really awful sound. But the great part: YOT is afloat and I have everything to repair the scuffed keel, the battery is under warranty and I have the new Vetus single lever shift/throttle unit to install anyway. All this adds up to a really bad day which makes the days everything goes without a hitch so much sweeter. I guess this is what makes sailing so much fun.

 

[tfrench]

Hi Joe,
Tough day for sure but next sail will more than make up. Still impressed by the way YOT handles? I'm still working...slow but sure, on Boomer. All bulkheads are in and working aft towards galley. Figure another 4-6 months to sailing. one thing for sure, like you, I'll know every square inch of the boat.
Cheers,
Tim French

 

[25yearslater]

Hi Tim. It is quite a process getting everything shipshape. For those of us willing to do this the rewards are worth every hour. I have everything back in order again as I am not willing to give up a moment before the season ends.

 

[Ionheaven]

We are out enjoying every minute too before the season ends, which is usually by Columbus Day here on the Sacandaga due to lowering water levels. Yesterday was our best sail ever. One long tack down the lake and one tack back. We were flying! We have much to do to fix and refurbish, but there will be plenty of time for that.

 

[25yearslater]

After an exciting season YOT is back on the hard. At this point it is with some sadness I will close out posting on this thread. It has been a grand adventure and I cannot express my gratitude for the companionship all of you have provided. It does my heart good to find so many have visited this thread and found valuable information and inspiration contained herein. I'm not going away and will continue haunting SBO for years to come. Look for a new thread with some interesting things I wll be attempting in the continuing adventures of YOT. Happy restoring all. :cry:

 

[tfrench]

After an exciting season YOT is back on the hard. At this point it is with some sadness I will close out posting on this thread. It has been a grand adventure and I cannot express my gratitude for the companionship all of you have provided. It does my heart good to find so many have visited this thread and found valuable information and inspiration contained herein. I'm not going away and will continue haunting SBO for years to come. Look for a new thread with some interesting things I wll be attempting in the continuing adventures of YOT. Happy restoring all. :cry:

Thanks Joe! You've provided many great ideas, much advice, and loads of inspiration. Well done! Hope to here from you and YOT going forward.
Cheers,
Tim

 

[JonnyQuest]

Good thread Joe! Looking forward to what you do to YOT over the winter. Good that you have a yard to work on her at home.

 

[tfrench]

Good thread Joe! Looking forward to what you do to YOT over the winter. Good that you have a yard to work on her at home.

Hi John,
Any updates on your boat?
Cheers,
TFrench

 

[JonnyQuest]

Hi John, Any updates on your boat? Cheers, TFrench

Hi TFrench, I've been doing a little bit of work on the boat, however life is been very busy for us down here: tropical storm, funeral (friend), Cub Scout activities and school. we have started to paint the interior of the boat with fresh coat of white paint, and we are oiling all of the wood inside with Murphy's oil. It's starting to look very nice. After rerigging the boat following the tropical storm, we were going to go sailing this weekend however when I hit the starter button all I got was click click click from the solenoid. Another mystery to unravel, unfortunately this one may be batteries having outlived their useful life. I'll get back and put a meter on them sometime during this week and may try "reconditioning" the batteries as a last ditch try to squeeze more life out of them. But the weather is still good and once the battery issue is solved we will be out sailing again. Here are some photos from our recent sailing trip about three weeks ago to Ship Island for your enjoyment. Cheers!

 

[tfrench]

Hi TFrench, I've been doing a little bit of work on the boat, however life is been very busy for us down here: tropical storm, funeral (friend), Cub Scout activities and school. we have started to paint the interior of the boat with fresh coat of white paint, and we are oiling all of the wood inside with Murphy's oil. It's starting to look very nice. After rerigging the boat following the tropical storm, we were going to go sailing this weekend however when I hit the starter button all I got was click click click from the solenoid. Another mystery to unravel, unfortunately this one may be batteries having outlived their useful life. I'll get back and put a meter on them sometime during this week and may try "reconditioning" the batteries as a last ditch try to squeeze more life out of them. But the weather is still good and once the battery issue is solved we will be out sailing again. Here are some photos from our recent sailing trip about three weeks ago to Ship Island for your enjoyment. Cheers![/QUOTE
Nice pics and glad you're getting out. I've got a battery to add myself soon. Project is moving along....slowly but surely. Last pic is of our last (and only) sail before I commenced with the re-fit. Better half at the helm. Looking to be able to sail in a couple of months although interior won't be complete until spring. Do you run a 2 or 3 blade prop?
Tim

 

[JonnyQuest]

I've got a standard two blade prop; I'm OK with it.
I like the tan paint on your deck, it really makes the white pop and looks classy without getting too hot on the feet. I'll likely do a tan paint when I get around to that work down the road.

What do you have going on in your quarter berth?--I see the bulkhead placed shortly aft of your companionway. I don't want to lose a quarter birth myself since my wife and I sail with our two young kids--a spot for everyone to stretch out alone is nice. But you must have something worthwhile bnack there...a/c?

 

[tfrench]

I've got a standard two blade prop; I'm OK with it. I like the tan paint on your deck, it really makes the white pop and looks classy without getting too hot on the feet. I'll likely do a tan paint when I get around to that work down the road. What do you have going on in your quarter berth?--I see the bulkhead placed shortly aft of your companionway. I don't want to lose a quarter birth myself since my wife and I sail with our two young kids--a spot for everyone to stretch out alone is nice. But you must have something worthwhile bnack there...a/c?

I've got a 3 blade and the drag in light air is something I'd prefer not to have....thought about a folding but that's a big $ hit.
I've replaced all the factory bulkheads and added the one (stbd.) that you see in the pic. It's basically a more robust partition between the galley and lasaret. Also added support for the cockpit which had sagged 1/2" over the years. The new galley is in my garage and will go in shortly. I've still got the quarter birth (port)



for our kid...a 13 year old Kelpie.

 

[JonnyQuest]

Joe,

Just reading back over Encyclopaedia Odaea -- aka your And So It Begins thread....

I'm not following the big picture here on how you solved the need to hack up our inner liners for stantion base plate screws and access. Could you elaborate? I was thinking of the traditional repair route of making backing plates and cutting out sections of my WONDERFUL ODay cabin liner .

Thanks,

Jonny

From your post # 158, which has pictures
(http://forums.oday.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=123244&page=26) ...

As I promised another way to free ourselves of pesky hidden stantion nuts without hacking the bejeepers out of our liners. Introducing the T Nut often confused with the peanut or coconut but radically different in form and function. These are 18-8 stainless steel and available through most any industrial hardware outlet, in this case Mcmaster-Carr. I clipped the prongs by about 1/3 as they only provide a means to prevent turning and any excess might well split the epoxy. With 3/4 inch holes bored in the deck, as this is the flange diameter, the core material was carved out by 1/8 inch on a side using a modified roofing nail mounted in my Dremel. I lined the holes with knytex as the tabbing at the cabin liner has been compromised and the epoxy would leak into the cabin if not for a seal which the cloth provides. Don't bore the holes so deep as to cut through the inner deck skin. The nuts are 1/2 tall so anything more for depth is excess. So wet out the holes with epoxy and thicken the rest with 404 high density filler. Attach the nuts to the stantion base with screws slighly longer than the nut height in this case 5/8 inch. Wax the stantion bottom and the screws prior to assembly of the nuts. Use screws that provide a good means of extraction, here I am using socket head cap screws that use an allen wrench. If the epoxy grabs you'll be glad you didn't use phillips heads. Fill the holes with the thickened epoxy, not too thick or it won't settle in around the nut, and using the outboard screw holes as guides set it slowly in place. Soon as it's cured I'll post more pics of the end result.

 

[25yearslater]

Hi Jonny. Good questions on no chop stantion base attachment. On pages 8 and 9 the method is detailed. I layed out the pattern by setting the base in location and tracing the holes in the base on the deck. Then using a 3/4 inch hole saw I cut the holes for the two inboard screws as the outboard screws can be through bolted with some slight aggravation as they are accessible between the liner and hull. The liner has a slight amount of give so it can be pried out about 1/4 inch and a block put in to keep it out during final installation. During the installation of the T-nuts just using the outboard screws for holding position is all that is required. Once the 3/4 holes are in a little removal of some balsa core provides a nice cavity for the epoxy to bond top/bottom skins and core. For this I cut some notches in a roofing nail head and mounted it in my Dremel. This gives about 1/8th inch of undercut and cleans the balsa out really easy. I did add a touch of cloth to the perimeter of the hole for good measure and to insure no epoxy runoff as there might be a slight breakout when removing the core. It is just to hold the thickened epoxy from flowing out. If any gaps are present once the base is removed it is a simple matter to use a Dremel and burr to open it up and fill with more epoxy. This method was tested when my son took a mistep and headed overboard but was tangled in the lifelines and hanging from them only. Give a shout if you need more information. I still haven't gotten over to YOT for the wire routing photos as it has been one brutal winter.

 

[JonnyQuest]

OK, I'm starting to get the "picture" now. So your T-nut is fixed in the epoxy between the deck skins.

I'm not grilling you on your design ideas, as it is a brilliant method. But I am stumped trying to grasp the relative strength of your solution:

Two questions for follow-up:

1. What are you using for backing plates on your 2 outboard screws?

2. I'm not visualizing how theT-nut in epoxy provides any stronger anchoring than the traditional washer-as-backing plate. Is your idea that it isn't neccessarily any stronger than a washer-as-backing-plate, rather its advantage is not strength, but simply not having to cut up the inner liner to access the inner screws? If that is the case, what do you think about the strength of your method?

3. Or is your method stronger?

4. Or am I missing something else here? Is the epoxy bonded innerskin-core-outerskin actually stronger by distributing lateral forces throughout all three layers and beyond the immediate area of our epoxy potting?

Thanks for helping me understand your method better. I'm looking forward to implementing it when I start rebedding my stanchions this spring.

Jonny

 

[JonnyQuest]

Just going back and reading my own post...

Jeez! Talk about over-analyzing something...I need a drink.

;-)

 

[25yearslater]

These are some excellent questions Jonny. First it would be helpful to describe my analysis of the lifeline and stantion construction and function. When I considered the basic base and tube it seemed a rather poor way of providing some type of secure operational handhold. The cable itself at 3/16ths inch even when vinyl coated is uncomfortable to handle when attempting to stabilize yourself in rough weather. Then we have the area of the base. At 4 to 6 square inches these didn't seem an intelligent way to fix something to a structure that one is trying to provide great strength. Then confronting a thin walled tube with a kink point where the tube inserts into the base it becomes obvious that the function is inadequate to support much in the event of a serious impact load that high up what is essentially a lever. Next I ran some tests to determine how much force was needed to kink and bend the .062 walled tubing. My skinny butt was able to kink and bend the tube with less than my hulking 150 pounds applied to the end. In short the tube is very weak. So my conclusion was they weren't designed to support a load at their height. What they do quite well is elevate the cable to a functional height that in an emergency make it a last best chance of keeping someone from being separated from the boat. Next I considered my new deck structure. The outboard screws had only the original 3/16ths single skin as their mounting area. Pretty pathetic as a way to attach something. The inner screws passed through the outer skin, the core (balsa) and the 1/8th approx. inner skin. In my case the new structure was an outer skin of biaxials = +30% more strength and epoxy = +30% more strength or somewhere in excess of 60% stronger than the original composite. So when I consider all the additional strength of the deck and the function of the stantions I couldn't bring myself to alter the liner to gain perhaps a bit more strength. Hope this helps.

 

[JonnyQuest]

Joe, thanks for adding more of your thoughts here. Makes sense explaining how this is stronger than the traditional methods without needing to cut chunks out of the inner liner.

Any thoughts on repotting and using the t screws on all four of the stanchion holes --eliminating all 4 nuts in the cabin below each stanchion?