Luna, The Story of a Forgotten Catalina 30.

[DArcy]

I really like having a double sink on the boat for the same reasons Stu said plus one big sink stuff has further to slide when the boat heals. And there is always something in one of the sinks - water bottles, cups, snacks... Leaves the other sink available for washing up.

 

[BigEasy]

"Six one way and a half dozen the other way" I chartered a boat, over five years, that had double sinks. I really liked it because of the ability to wash in one sink and then rinse and drain in the other sink. The double sinks were small, so it was somewhat difficult to wash larger items. My present boat has a large single sink. Nice in that you can wash larger items more easily, but you lose the capability of rinsing and draining in an adjacent sink. If I had a preference it would be a double sink arrangement; however, no way am I going to convert from a single to double.

 

[Stu Jackson]

SAFETY WARNING

From my research, and prior knowledge those ”Gummy Bear“ plugs are only rated for 5 amps max, but are ideal at around 2-3 amps. The red and orange wires carry 30 or more amps. Not a good combination. hey were included on all Catalina models, but only used on ones with an amp gauge. If you didn’t have the amp gauge that wire was bypassed at the alternator. It was still included in the panel wiring harness as well as the middle harness but not on the engine side. I have an amp gauge, it’s the one in the middle and it’s not hooked up… wonder why?

You don’t need to connect those 2 wires together with a butt connector, you can simply feed the alternator output to the starting battery, that’s where it goes after the gauge. If you use an isolator/switch then it would feed the input side of the isolator/switch first.

Mike,

I know this boat is new to you, but there is so much misinformation in your post that it warrants a touch of reality.

Gummy Bear plugs are a term recently coined by weekendrken, one K Kloeber, who frequents many Catalina forums and owns a C30 himself. These are only trailer plugs and were used on many boats other than just Catalinas. They were used to simplify construction by boat builders who dropped engines into boats and plugged them in, cheaper than connecting multiple individual wires. Yanmar and Hunter owners have the same travails.

The issue is NOT the ability to carry amps, it is the fact that when they deteriorate they end up shorting wires and creating BAD conditions, like having your engine start when you're not there, or fires.

"...but only used on ones with an amp gauge" is just plain wrong. They still used them after they started using voltmeters in the cockpit.

"...but not on the engine side..." is just plain wrong, too. They used them at both ends.

...You don’t need to connect those 2 wires together with a butt connector, you can simply feed the alternator output to the starting battery, that’s where it goes after the gauge. If you use an isolator/switch then it would feed the input side of the isolator/switch first." Is also just plain wrong. The AO should go to the house bank, no isolators should be used these days...

Mike, I know you're new, but please don't misrepresent reality.

For those of you who still don't know about trailer plugs, you might want to read the whole of this thread, it applies to many mid sized Catalinas and many other builders like Hunter, Ericson, etc.:

Critical Upgrades http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5078.0.html

We've built that information up over the past 30 years.

 

[mikeracca]

Stu, I referred to the trailer plug as a ”gummy bear” plug in reference to someone who posted something before me. I know they are trailer plugs and I know they were used for installation simplicity. I also know those plugs short, you make it sound like I don’t know why. Well they are not designed to carry the amps that they eventually ended up carrying and this melted the plastic/rubber or whatever they are really made out of causing the shorts. This wasn’t so much of an issue when all the contacts were pretty and shiny, there is a bit of tolerance when things are new like that. But add a few years in a marine environment and the corrosion causes resistance which creates heat, which melts the plastic. If the current was never above the rated capacity these plugs would never have an issue. They are very reliable when used properly.

Why would you only have the alternator feed going to the house bank? In every schematic I have viewed for charging systems they all route the alternator’s output to a selector switch or isolator which is then tied to the batteries, both house and starting. And I have seen companies like Victron and others making new more advanced battery isolators that do not have the same issues the older generation of isolators had. I agree that the older isolator technology was sketchy at best, having been developed in the 1960’s and not changing much even to today. I have had the privilege of dealing with those things on many vehicles, I’m not a fan of them. But the person posting the question I was answering may have had an isolator or switch that they would have to account for.

I may be new here, and I may be new to the Catalina, but I have been doing electrical on boats, autos and aircraft for 30+ years. I even dabbled in home electrical when I was younger and worked for a general contractor. I may not know all the practices that Catalina did… I’m still learning all of that. I have found some of the stuff very interesting and some of it a head scratcher. That also goes with the various things the previous owners of my boat have done.

 

[Stu Jackson]

If the current was never above the rated capacity these plugs would never have an issue. They are very reliable when used properly.

I disagree. Regardless of the current they carry, the material they are made of, as you so correctly point out "in the marine environment", assures their eventual failure. It is the inexpensive enclosure material that disintegrates around the plugs themselves that causes the failures, not only the current. Let's agree to disagree. For those who follow these threads, just look at my link for photos of failure. Like Maine Sail's Hall of Fail!

Why would you only have the alternator feed going to the house bank? In every schematic I have viewed for charging systems they all route the alternator’s output to a selector switch or isolator which is then tied to the batteries, both house and starting.

Because the house bank almost always needs more to replenish it than a start or reserve bank. Mike, this is nothing new, and Maine Sail and I and many others have been recommending this for decades: Make your 1-2-B switch a USE switch, not a "charging chooser." You may be looking at misleading wiring diagrams.
Here are discussions of why & how to do it:
OEM 1-2-B Switch Wiring History Alternator/Batteries & "The Basic" 1-2-B Switch BEST Wiring Diagrams

1-2-B Considerations (New 2020 - Rod finally got around to diagramming what I had done in the above link in 2009 )
1/2/BOTH Switch Considerations

Basic Battery Wiring Diagrams This is a very good basic primer for boat system wiring: Basic Battery Wiring Diagrams

This is another very good basic primer for boat system wiring: The 1-2-B Switch by Maine Sail (brings together a lot of what this subject is all about)
http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=137615

This is a newer primer for boat system wiring design with a thorough diagram: Building a Good Foundation (October 2016)
Building a DC Electrical Foundation

The Short Version of the 1-2-B Switch Stuff: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5977.msg38552.html#msg38552 This is a link to the Electrical Systems 101 Topic, reply #2

How to properly wire & switch a DCP switch - Maine Sail's "workaround" explained Replies #28 & 29
https://forums.sailboatowners.com/t...or-automatic-charging-relay.1249932137/page-2

Mike, I do not begrudge you your experience. It just seems to me that your suggestions bear little resemblance to what Maine Sail, probably THE most trusted name in boat electrical systems, has been recommending for decades.

 

[mikeracca]

So I dropped a fat stack (as my kids would say) on the boat today. I bought new electric panels. An AC 3 circuit and a 13 POS DC panel that has slots for more switches as needed. I don’t at the moment need 13 circuits but this allows for future updates without making it look like a hack job.

Now for the “shocking” news. This boat is really lucky to be still on the water. Not only did the battery charger catch fire at one point but it looks as if the AC breaker caught fire, or at least got really hot. This is the mess I found when I opened up my panel tonight.

Here is the mess of wires going into the A/C breaker.


here is the mess of wires attached to the out terminals.


And looky here, the line input is charged and that copper terminal got nice and warm at some point.


Here is the DC side of the mess. And yes that’s a terminal strip that is floating in space with a couple of jacked up spades.


And lastly my battery 12B/O switch. It doesn’t look so bad… but 2 of the terminals were only finger tight.


I pulled prolly about 5 or 6 lbs of wire out tonight, mostly Statue of Liberty colored.

The bilge hose and pump got installed tonight as well. Well almost, the pump did get installed, but not wired, the float switch got mounted as well, but the hose is a bit short, and also the wrong size for the manual bilge pump. So I will get an adaptor to go from a 1” hose to a 1 1/2” hose, and a few feet of 1 1/2“ hose to finish the job and get that part of the boat all taken care of.

My next project was trying to get some of the fuel out of the boat. I borrowed an electric pump from a friend and I got nothing… I think the pump is bad... so I will try again with a new pump later in the week.

And lastly I crawled Into the lazzarette and got some work done in there. The diesel heater was removed, the throttle/shift controls I attempted to remove but I didn’t have the correct tools. They look like they may be able to be fixed so that they will work again. My handles pulled out easily but I was unable to get the little plug out of the end so I could unbolt the first drum. I also didn’t have any snap ring pliers with me which will be needed for the second drum and to get the main unit out. My cables are totally frozen, and will most likely get replaced with new. I will pull the cables and finish pulling the propane hose out next time I visit Luna.

 

[jeepbluetj]

My C-30's electrical looked very similar. I replaced all of it that I could, new panels like you're doing.

Those old Catalinas were unfortunately wired with untinned wire. Many a corroded connection resulted. The wiring embedded in the deck of mine (for the overhead lights) eventually went bad and I had to be creative with fixes.

That AC breaker looks like a disaster. I hate seeing that many wires stacked on a breaker.

 

[mikeracca]

That AC breaker looks like a disaster. I hate seeing that many wires stacked on a breaker.

I have a solution to that disaster that just showed up in a brown box that was delivered from a brown box on wheels.

On a different topic… Have any of you out there remotored your Catalina 30 with a Universal M3-20B? If so what issues did you run into and any tips you can give. By looking at the dimensions the engine is slightly smaller in most directions, with only the cable bracket being longer. This would convert the existing cooling system to a closed loop system (which I like much better than raw water cooling) and by all respects this would be a much more convenient power plant with modern parts availability. The price is the kicker but I do plan on holding on to Luna for a long while so that price may be worth it in the overall.

 

[jssailem]

Mike
Very nice C Panel.
Just a thought before you install., you might consider the BlueSea

ELCI Main 30A Double Pole + 2 Positions
8101

• One 30A AC ELCI Main Residual Current Circuit Breaker, leakage trip amperate - 30 mA
• ELCI provides overcurrent and leakage protection per ABYC E-11 for whole boat shore power protection
• Red " Reverse Polarity" LED
• All circuit label positions are backlit
• "ON" indicating LEDs

It was about $319 at Fisheries last winter.

The SBO Store shows..... Blue Sea Systems ELCI Main 30A Double Pole Circuit Breaker Panel - with 2 Circuit Breaker Positions and Voltmeter

 

[mikeracca]

Mike
Very nice C Panel.
Just a thought before you install., you might consider the BlueSea

ELCI Main 30A Double Pole + 2 Positions
8101

• One 30A AC ELCI Main Residual Current Circuit Breaker, leakage trip amperate - 30 mA
• ELCI provides overcurrent and leakage protection per ABYC E-11 for whole boat shore power protection
• Red " Reverse Polarity" LED
• All circuit label positions are backlit
• "ON" indicating LEDs

It was about $319 at Fisheries last winter.

The SBO Store shows..... Blue Sea Systems ELCI Main 30A Double Pole Circuit Breaker Panel - with 2 Circuit Breaker Positions and Voltmeter

The one I have provides all but the leak detection. I couldn’t find that one where I was looking. I try to purchase locally and Fisheries didn’t have it and it was back ordered for over 3 months already. I got this one from Fisheries and the DC from Seattle Marine Supply. SMS Didn’t have the AC panel i bought or the 8102 in stock either. Oh well. I think I will be good here. I have a fuse block and bus bars also on the way.

 

[Hayden Watson]

...On a different topic… Have any of you out there remotored your Catalina 30 with a Universal M3-20B?
...

No personal experience because my M25XP is still faithfully ticking away but I have heard of many C30's that repowered with a Beta.

 

[Mikem]

I have a solution to that disaster that just showed up in a brown box that was delivered from a brown box on wheels.

View attachment 204175


On a different topic… Have any of you out there remotored your Catalina 30 with a Universal M3-20B? If so what issues did you run into and any tips you can give. By looking at the dimensions the engine is slightly smaller in most directions, with only the cable bracket being longer. This would convert the existing cooling system to a closed loop system (which I like much better than raw water cooling) and by all respects this would be a much more convenient power plant with modern parts availability. The price is the kicker but I do plan on holding on to Luna for a long while so that price may be worth it in the overall.

My daughter had a 1982 c 30 with the 11hp universal. It was reliable but in Puget Sound underpowered. The M3 20b, highly recommended by Gallery marine of Seattle is an excellent choice. A 25 hp Beta will also fit. A rule of thumb when repowering is to double the price of the engine and that will cover removal of old engine and installation of new. Repower involves new motor mounts, new harness, instrument panel, exhaust hose, tranny, shaft and propeller…to name a few considerations. The Beta guys in Port Townsend have done several C30s with the 25hp model. My daughter bought a H 37c with a 30 hp Yanmar for slightly more than a repower job. If you can do the labor you might save $5k but you still have new parts to buy. Another option is to buy a running engine that was removed from another boat. Good luck.

 

[mikeracca]

So the truck with the eagle on it dropped this off for me today.

Now I just need a few more items to get started rebuilding the wiring on Luna.

Today I also got the adapter for the bilge hose, it is now routed all the way out of the hull. I have not tested it yet, today was a bit cold to play in the water.

 

[mikeracca]

Just an update.

I got about 5 gallons of fuel off the boat yesterday. The first pump I used was simply broken, the fuel came out easily this time. I have about 15 gallons to go. So far the fuel is a good color and smell. And I don’t think it got much water in it, if any at all. Which is good! But I’m still going to replace it all, and get new filters, just as a precaution.
Next I moved on to some of my rigging. I took the sail cover off for the first time. The sail looks good and the couple lugs I moved in their tracks seemed to move pretty ok. I then went on to replace the ropes for the traveler. I accidentally ordered one a bit too short. It’s long enough to do the job, but only if I am sitting on the starboard side… I’m looking into ordering more rope of the same length as the port side.

I found out where a couple of my other ropes route to as well. I will be making some changes here. My halyard for my jib goes back to the cockpit, but my main is at the mast… my wisker pole also goes to the cockpit also, but I’m not planning on using a spinnaker until I get much better at sailing. So I’m prolly going to just leave the hardware in place but use the shiv for the main halyard Instead. And prolly a new set of cam cleats. Oh and my winch on the mast needs to be rebuilt, it’s not grabbing the way it should. It’s a single speed Lumar, so easy enough to do.

I also got the engine controls out of the boat so now I can attempt to get them working properly again. I need a gallon of Evapo-Rust to clean up the splines and free them up, check on the health of the plastic bushing repair/replace as needed and hopefully save myself a few hundred dollars. I found out why there was a block of wood behind the controls, the nut that normally retained the controls to the hull was missing. The block of wood was used to take up that space, and a snap ring was then used to hold the controls in place. I’m going to try and find a nut to fit, and it looks like I will most likely need a spacer as well, which I can make on my 3d printer.
So all and all a short but very productive day at the boat!

 

[DArcy]

Good stuff Mike. It's great to see new life being breathed into an old boat. And I'm sure your dock neighbors are glad to see her getting cleaned up.

 

[mikeracca]

Good stuff Mike. It's great to see new life being breathed into an old boat. And I'm sure your dock neighbors are glad to see her getting cleaned up.

My dock neighbors are very happy. The old man who owns the marina has been surprised by how much work I’m actually doing to Luna. He said to me yesterday he wasn’t sure if I actually knew how to get the boat back into shape when I bought it, but he was glad to see I actually can.

 

[jeepbluetj]

You will find once you get Luna sailing that the curved traveler that Catalina originally put on the boat originally sucks beyond any reasonable level of suckkatude. Invest little in that part because once you find out what a joy having a straight Garhauer traveler is you'll want one.

That was the single best sailing upgrade I made to my boat. Better than new sails. (New sails were good too, just not the bang for buck the traveler is)

 

[mikeracca]

You will find once you get Luna sailing that the curved traveler that Catalina originally put on the boat originally sucks beyond any reasonable level of suckkatude. Invest little in that part because once you find out what a joy having a straight Garhauer traveler is you'll want one.

That was the single best sailing upgrade I made to my boat. Better than new sails. (New sails were good too, just not the bang for buck the traveler is)

I do plan on making this change eventually. Right now the $1000 or so that it costs will be needed to do things like get the engine running and get her hauled out to work on the underside. But yes I have heard that while it looks good, it’s performance is not great.

 

[mikeracca]

So I got some boat time today. And some went well… some not so much.

I returned a couple of the cushions to the boat as it doesn’t seem to be leaking much any more. I think some of it was the boat sweating due to the bilge being over full and no ventilation. That’s all been taken care of at this point. I found my Vee berth is pretty comfortable.

Next I pumped out the rest of the fuel I could, I got about 8 gallons or so out. My fuel gauge showed 1/2 tank but it was empty… I removed the gauge and found the bad… see pic below… but I somewhat expected this, which is why I didn’t want to use this fuel in my engine.

Now this fuel gauge looks like it was part of the boat originally, and it has a magnet that causes the needle on the gauge to turn but that needle only moved from full to half. I found if I flip the gauge around it will go from half to empty. i need to look into this more, or replace it with an electronic sending unit. And then there is the issue with the mess inside the tank…

 

[MikeHoncho]

Where are you slipped in Tacoma? I’m at the break water. Your LPG tank caught my attention……could you do me a favor and hook it up to a bbq and burn off the remaining gas and dispose of it? That is a fire/explosion waiting to happen. Please store it outside until you can empty it. I’ve seen several failures of tanks due to corrosion and with the weather warming up, the pressure in the tank will be rising.