I would try and get the screw that go into the plywood perpendicular to the ply. The way it looks now those screws will try and open the joint at assembly time
Les
Les
Repairing Hunter 40 damage from Hurricane Matthew
- Thread starter B757Captain
- Start date
Screws should only be used to hold tight till the glue dries. Once the glue is dry, the screws could be removed and the joint would be just as strong.
I would also suggest using a 2x2 for the corner piece and forget the corner brace all together. Pocket screws through the plywood screwing into the corner piece as previously stated. I would also suggest mounting the plywood about a 1/16th inch deeper than the corner piece. This way you don't have to have the corner piece flat surface line up perfectly to the plywood. You will find the corner piece will have a slight amount of warp, and you will never get it perfectly flush along the whole length - therefore don't fight it. Set the plywood back some from the corner, and no one will see the imperfections. There is a reason cabinet makers don't try to line up the side pieces perfectly with the face frames. There is no such thing as a straight piece of wood. Mask what is not perfect.
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Respectfully, I think you're not seeing the forest for the trees.
You've been spending a lot of time thinking about optimal wood for the inside wedge, how to get the screw angles right, etc.
Here is what I would do, which would be a cinch to install, be stronger than anything, would never come apart, (unless you wanted it to, and would cost very little.
I would (no pun intended) make the inside support out of simple metal pieces. All you need are 2 bends, and 4 holes. I would make them 1" tall, so that you'd have one at the top, and one at the bottom.
The screws will all be at perfect right angles to each piece of wood. To install, you just clamp on the brackets, use a transfer punch to mark the holes, drill, put in screws & you're done.
Any metal shop with a brake can make these, and get a bucket-full made. You now have a way to do all your joinery.
For taller wood pieces, use 3 brackets instead of 2.
You can use either 16 guage stainless, or crs, and have a auto shop paint them brown.
You've been spending a lot of time thinking about optimal wood for the inside wedge, how to get the screw angles right, etc.
Here is what I would do, which would be a cinch to install, be stronger than anything, would never come apart, (unless you wanted it to, and would cost very little.
I would (no pun intended) make the inside support out of simple metal pieces. All you need are 2 bends, and 4 holes. I would make them 1" tall, so that you'd have one at the top, and one at the bottom.
The screws will all be at perfect right angles to each piece of wood. To install, you just clamp on the brackets, use a transfer punch to mark the holes, drill, put in screws & you're done.
Any metal shop with a brake can make these, and get a bucket-full made. You now have a way to do all your joinery.
For taller wood pieces, use 3 brackets instead of 2.
You can use either 16 guage stainless, or crs, and have a auto shop paint them brown.
It almost brought me to tears looking at the aftermath......so many thoughts rush to mind.
I admire you for your tenacity and determination, and have no doubt you will achieve your goal.
On any restoration of a classic car (ex car mech', now in the same trade as you) when asked for an estimate of cost would do a detailed inspection and estimate, then double it and add 10%. If the owner wouldn't/couldn't accept my revised estimate we both parted happy-ish, but not at each others throats when the bill went the way I had envisaged and the owner had not accepted it.
I believe you are in a similar state, and the revised estimate relates not just to money, but also time (the same thing really). It is not meant to discourage you, but just a reality check.
Well done on reclaiming the engine....have you checked the gearbox?
The fact you are recording your progress will help you succeed, as you progress it is difficult to remember just how far you have already come.
Good luck and fair winds, I really look forward to seeing that beautiful boat in all its glory again.
Neil
I admire you for your tenacity and determination, and have no doubt you will achieve your goal.
On any restoration of a classic car (ex car mech', now in the same trade as you) when asked for an estimate of cost would do a detailed inspection and estimate, then double it and add 10%. If the owner wouldn't/couldn't accept my revised estimate we both parted happy-ish, but not at each others throats when the bill went the way I had envisaged and the owner had not accepted it.
I believe you are in a similar state, and the revised estimate relates not just to money, but also time (the same thing really). It is not meant to discourage you, but just a reality check.
Well done on reclaiming the engine....have you checked the gearbox?
The fact you are recording your progress will help you succeed, as you progress it is difficult to remember just how far you have already come.
Good luck and fair winds, I really look forward to seeing that beautiful boat in all its glory again.
Neil
I'm looking at this option, but the need for specialized screws is one of the issues holding me up. Do the screws necessary for the pocket jig come in SS?
Another possible issue with the pocket jig is the pocket itself. Every nook and cranny on a boat will eventually succumb to the dirt monsters, dust bunnys and other gooey goonies. I can see in ten years the pockets being filled with detritus since they will be hidden and hard to clean. The solution is to cover the pockets with plugs but now we're getting into both more work and more permanence, i.e., if/when the cabinet needs to come apart you need to destroy it in the process.
I'm working on a homemade jig to use standard screws with the angled bracket. We'll see how well that works.
I'm still not on board with gluing the joints for these reasons:
Part of me remembers the first time I had to do a (at the time!) major repair - replacing rotted floorboards under the galley. I basically destroyed a substantial portion of the galley cabinetry trying to remove enough of it to get to the floorboards. This is the downside to pre-built and placed interiors in modern sailboats. They look and function nicely but don't age well. By age I mean the design concept is not upgradeable long-term.
I know I seem to harp on the idea of being able to take the cabinetry apart. Rest assured my hobby is not dissasembly and reassembly of things on a whim - ok, yes, when I was 6, but I got my butt paddled for that! And I had to help put the tractor back together as punishment. Rather, I'm trying to look down the road pragmatically. Most of the boat systems will be buried behind or underneath a fixture of some kind and eventually will need repair or replacement. I don't mind burying a pump, cable, wire, etc., but I want to be able to access it when required.
Agree with you 100% on fitment though. I rate my fine furniture/cabinetry skills pretty low compared to my other jack-of-all-trades skills. I like to joke that I'm a measure once, cut twice woodworker! Boats actually help this since no two sides are alike and right angles are usually wrong!
Not a bad idea, but I'm not exactly on great terms with my local machine shop at the moment due to the bow pulpit debacle. My desire for the large radius corners is causing all the angst. It would be much easier to use 3/4 quarter-round pieces and 1x1 bracing to tie everything together but I'm going with form over function on this one.
"have a auto shop paint them brown."
Blasphemy, sir!
Lifelines!
First, thanks, CY and Tipsy! I liken this rebuild not so much as restoring and old or wrecked car but more like a barn find '70 Chevelle turned into a resto/modern hotrod. It's a good thing I'm not charging myself for labor. I'd be broke!
The bow pulpit debacle has ended successfully! It still has a slight twist in it but that can be fixed with a few braces. The bow pulpit was always a little wobbly due to its basic design but I have a plan to rectify that. One more brace from the toe rail to the lower hoop on each side will solve the twist and the wobbly. But first I had to get it mounted:
Next up was making up the new lifelines:
They all fit! The first time!
I feel safer already
Working today on the aft bunk supports and the doghouse. Stay tuned!
Cheers,
Mark
First, thanks, CY and Tipsy! I liken this rebuild not so much as restoring and old or wrecked car but more like a barn find '70 Chevelle turned into a resto/modern hotrod. It's a good thing I'm not charging myself for labor. I'd be broke!
The bow pulpit debacle has ended successfully! It still has a slight twist in it but that can be fixed with a few braces. The bow pulpit was always a little wobbly due to its basic design but I have a plan to rectify that. One more brace from the toe rail to the lower hoop on each side will solve the twist and the wobbly. But first I had to get it mounted:
Next up was making up the new lifelines:
They all fit! The first time!
I feel safer already
Working today on the aft bunk supports and the doghouse. Stay tuned!
Cheers,
Mark
Pocket screws come in SS https://www.kregtool.com/store/c20/kregreg-screws/p302/stainless-steel-pocket-hole-screws/
They also make plastic plug that are snapped into place which should also make them removable. https://www.kregtool.com/store/c21/kregreg-plugs/p16/plastic-pocket-hole-plugs--white--50ct/
Saturday update:
I'm too lazy to look back and see who the first guy was who recommended the Kreg jig, but to you and all who seconded the recommendation, I say:
You guys are friggin' geniuses!!!!!!
My new and final version corner piece:
I have poured and downed my first Captain Morgan/DC + lime of the night (actually first in several weeks) so no more power tools for the night!
Cheers,
Mark
I'm too lazy to look back and see who the first guy was who recommended the Kreg jig, but to you and all who seconded the recommendation, I say:
You guys are friggin' geniuses!!!!!!
My new and final version corner piece:
I have poured and downed my first Captain Morgan/DC + lime of the night (actually first in several weeks
) so no more power tools for the night!Cheers,
Mark
I’m glad you’re too lazy for *something.* Just sayin.
Aft cabin rebuild begins:
I've been working on parts and pieces for the aft cabin and the most logical place to start is the bunk. Gotta have someplace to sit whilst contemplating!
First up was to cut new risers using the old pieces as patterns. The old pieces were not in terrible shape but were full of holes from various previous incarnations and configurations. Armed with some nifty new 1 1/4" corners (yay!) everything got mocked up, set in place and trimmed to fit:
After a few passes with the sander on a couple of spots it all fit so I started drilling holes in the nice, new shiny liner. Next up was the top boards. The old one was a one piece affair that was hinged to allow access to the old battery location but I had to cut it in half to remove it because it was too big to remove through the companionway. Many moons ago I had relocated the batteries to under the port-side settee so I no longer need the hinged board access. I plan to add under-bunk drawers so the empty space will not go to waste so I created compartments:
The cover boards being fitted:
I need to round the corners and cut the openings for the drawers yet, but first I have to add the aft engine cover. One set of drawers will open forward and I don't want the drawers interfering with anything when open.
Next up I try my hand at precision cabinetry!
Cheers,
Mark
I've been working on parts and pieces for the aft cabin and the most logical place to start is the bunk. Gotta have someplace to sit whilst contemplating!
First up was to cut new risers using the old pieces as patterns. The old pieces were not in terrible shape but were full of holes from various previous incarnations and configurations. Armed with some nifty new 1 1/4" corners (yay!) everything got mocked up, set in place and trimmed to fit:
After a few passes with the sander on a couple of spots it all fit so I started drilling holes in the nice, new shiny liner. Next up was the top boards. The old one was a one piece affair that was hinged to allow access to the old battery location but I had to cut it in half to remove it because it was too big to remove through the companionway. Many moons ago I had relocated the batteries to under the port-side settee so I no longer need the hinged board access. I plan to add under-bunk drawers so the empty space will not go to waste so I created compartments:
The cover boards being fitted:
I need to round the corners and cut the openings for the drawers yet, but first I have to add the aft engine cover. One set of drawers will open forward and I don't want the drawers interfering with anything when open.
Next up I try my hand at precision cabinetry!
Cheers,
Mark
You went totally crazy on the Kreg Jig clamps to.
BTY: For everyone that pointed out that I said Craig Jig, technically it could be correct, seeing as that is his first name. We used to talk to him back in the old days when he traveled the wood shows hawking his original jig.
BTY: For everyone that pointed out that I said Craig Jig, technically it could be correct, seeing as that is his first name. We used to talk to him back in the old days when he traveled the wood shows hawking his original jig.
Hey Mark,
You are making remarkable progress there! For cutting the draws/panels out of material where I want to keep the wood grain to match I use a Multitool vibro saw, you can cut a 1/16" wide slot. Getting a dead straight line is critical....have you seen/used them? You can always line the edge of the cut with a thin strip if you get it wrong or use something that gives a wider cut.
Looking great!
Neil
You are making remarkable progress there! For cutting the draws/panels out of material where I want to keep the wood grain to match I use a Multitool vibro saw, you can cut a 1/16" wide slot. Getting a dead straight line is critical....have you seen/used them? You can always line the edge of the cut with a thin strip if you get it wrong or use something that gives a wider cut.
Looking great!
Neil
Rear engine compartment cover build:
Behold my first real attempt at fine furniture building - go ahead and laugh, cry and/or nitpick, this is a learning experience for me!
Tipsy, I don't have a vibro saw, how well would it hold up cutting through 3/4" marine ply? A lot of ply!
The original version of the aft engine cover was an angled cover with some (totally useless!) drawers that rose about halfway up the rear of the companionway bulkhead. The upper portion of the bulkhead had a mirror across it. I never saw the usefulness of the mirror so one of the first changes I made to the factory interior was to get rid of the mirror and cover. I built a bookcase to fill the whole back portion of the bulkhead, with a removeable panel in the lower portion to access the engine/transmission. I don't have any pictures of the old bookcase but I decided the replicate it for the new interior. Not exactly, but close. I'm going to create a separate upper bookcase and lower engine cover so first up is making the lower section:
The sides and top assembled. The corners are my now standard 1 1/4" pieces. I intend to use formica across the top with red oak trim on it's edges but I haven't decided yet on the formica color and pattern so I'll leave it plain for now.
Next up was the front piece with the cutout for engine access. I test-fit all the pieces and test-fit the assembly in the boat, then pulled it back apart for the next step:
I trimmed the piece I cut out to allow for red oak edges. Here's my very first try at tongue-and-groove:
Took a little more work than I thought to get it right but all good. Edges clamped and glued:
Next up - after waiting for the proper rabbitting bit to arrive - cutting the step to fit the cover. I wanted the cover to fit flush and this seemed like a good way to do it:
Everything back together:
I'm not happy with the look of the way the mitered corner blends with the rounded edge but I'm going with it on this piece. Plan B for the next engine cover will look better. Project for this afternoon will be latches. I plan to use the pushbutton latches for this - I'm not a fan of them for drawers and cabinets but i think they will work well here. I have a different plan for cabinet latches!
Cheers,
Mark
Behold my first real attempt at fine furniture building - go ahead and laugh, cry and/or nitpick, this is a learning experience for me!
Tipsy, I don't have a vibro saw, how well would it hold up cutting through 3/4" marine ply? A lot of ply!
The original version of the aft engine cover was an angled cover with some (totally useless!) drawers that rose about halfway up the rear of the companionway bulkhead. The upper portion of the bulkhead had a mirror across it. I never saw the usefulness of the mirror so one of the first changes I made to the factory interior was to get rid of the mirror and cover. I built a bookcase to fill the whole back portion of the bulkhead, with a removeable panel in the lower portion to access the engine/transmission. I don't have any pictures of the old bookcase but I decided the replicate it for the new interior. Not exactly, but close. I'm going to create a separate upper bookcase and lower engine cover so first up is making the lower section:
The sides and top assembled. The corners are my now standard 1 1/4" pieces. I intend to use formica across the top with red oak trim on it's edges but I haven't decided yet on the formica color and pattern so I'll leave it plain for now.
Next up was the front piece with the cutout for engine access. I test-fit all the pieces and test-fit the assembly in the boat, then pulled it back apart for the next step:
I trimmed the piece I cut out to allow for red oak edges. Here's my very first try at tongue-and-groove:
Took a little more work than I thought to get it right but all good. Edges clamped and glued:
Next up - after waiting for the proper rabbitting bit to arrive - cutting the step to fit the cover. I wanted the cover to fit flush and this seemed like a good way to do it:
Everything back together:
I'm not happy with the look of the way the mitered corner blends with the rounded edge but I'm going with it on this piece. Plan B for the next engine cover will look better. Project for this afternoon will be latches. I plan to use the pushbutton latches for this - I'm not a fan of them for drawers and cabinets but i think they will work well here. I have a different plan for cabinet latches!
Cheers,
Mark
