Mcmaster-Carr as both brass and bronze tubing as well as a number of other alloys in tubing. Don't know if that would help you or not. Cheap is a difficult adjective to use - everyone has their own definition.
dj
Yuloh What I'm Talking About
- Thread starter Will Gilmore
- Start date
dj
Ok, I found a fantastic article on hollow wooden loom paddle and oar construction. http://sawdustfactory.nfshost.com/paddles/ Absolutely beautiful.
I'm thinking of using spruce and cedar. I'm so encouraged, because I was worrying about the strength of those two woods for such a purpose. He uses a bird's mouth construction technique that should simplify construction and gluing.
It is self-aligning, so no jigs. Checkout that hollow center to make room for a shock cord to hold everything together while allowing it to collapse for storage.
Certainly if those tiny strips of cedar will support this kind of paddling
, a 1-3/4" diameter yuloh loom should work just fine.
-Will (Dragonfly)
I'm thinking of using spruce and cedar. I'm so encouraged, because I was worrying about the strength of those two woods for such a purpose. He uses a bird's mouth construction technique that should simplify construction and gluing.
It is self-aligning, so no jigs. Checkout that hollow center to make room for a shock cord to hold everything together while allowing it to collapse for storage.
Certainly if those tiny strips of cedar will support this kind of paddling
-Will (Dragonfly)
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 24,454
Hi Will, nice project and interesting construction technique. Spruce is one of the harder conifers, but it is somewhat unstable and prone to check. Douglas fir would be a better choice, IMHO. Red cedar is highly resistant to rot, but low structural strength. Should hold up okay to paddle stress. First Nation people used white cedar for most all their needs, but becoming quite rare due to over harvesting. Easy to work with, a bit stronger than red cedar and also highly resistant to rot.
Thanks for the breakdown Terry. What you wrote about the low strength of cedar is what I was thinking too. That's why I was encouraged about the article by sawdustfactory. I know masts and other spars are often made from spruce, that was going to be the wood I used until I read the article on hollow shaft paddles. Now you got me wondering again.
Dimension lumber at the local Lowes or home depot is an unidentified mix of spruce fir and pine. Maybe I'll go for cheap and easy and look for a straight clear 2x8 to rip a prototype out of. If it comes out well, I'm done.
-Will (Dragonfly)
Dimension lumber at the local Lowes or home depot is an unidentified mix of spruce fir and pine. Maybe I'll go for cheap and easy and look for a straight clear 2x8 to rip a prototype out of. If it comes out well, I'm done.
-Will (Dragonfly)
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 24,454
Wood working.
Three possibilities.
Three possibilities.
- It comes out perfect but the colors suck.
- It comes out pretty but no strength so functional suck.
- It looks good. It feels good and suck, it’s too pretty to put in the water so you hang it on the wall as art and start again.
If you can find it, Port Orford Cedar would be a good choice of wood. it is strong, light, straight grained and rot / insect resistant. As a structural engineer, I specify it for exterior glue lam beams. It is almost as strong as doug-fir and holds up outside without pressure treatment.
I've seen that process but never realized, it's pretty simple. Amazingly strong it's a sort of composite piece when complete with strength supplied along the glue lines and straight fibers.
As long as you use relatively clear grain stock, I'd go for the lighter cedar or spruce as weight seems to be the main objective (I think?).
Sort of reminds me of split bamboo fly rods the Orvis makes.
As long as you use relatively clear grain stock, I'd go for the lighter cedar or spruce as weight seems to be the main objective (I think?).
Sort of reminds me of split bamboo fly rods the Orvis makes.
Very impressive. My brother-in-law built a mast for his Herreshoff 12 1/2 using this technique. A thing of beauty, as is the boat itself.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 24,454
My same conclusion. It looks strong design.
For Port Orford Cedar. Pretty and strong. Think amazon woman.
That is the consensus and conclusion I came to, as well. However, it is hard to find under that name at any reasonable price. Port Orford Cedar grows in the PNW and I can find PNW cedar. If it were the same, I would think it would be marketed under the name Port Orford Cedar.
I made my hatchboards out of Spanish Red Cedar because it was available. It's nice wood to work with, but it is very light, it splits easily. I really don't think it is even a good wood for a hatchboard. I chose it because I thought mahogany is too dark for wood burning. I've since burned mahogany and it is dark and lacks great contrast, but it burns really nicely. The image is smooth and even and clear. I also plan to embellish the yuloh.
Weight is a consideration, but it isn't the biggest consideration. I don't want a 16' oar to be hard to handle, but I don't need feather light either. Ash and white oak seem like it would be heavy. If cedar is strong enough, I'll go with the light weight as the deciding factor.
Before composites, racing oars where made hollow from spruce. That's a lot of force on a piece of hollow 2" wood.
-Will (Dragonfly)
You might check advantagelumber.com They have lots of different woods available.
Another site to check for exotic woods is aquaquestinternational.com. They have reclaimed wood from the bottom of a river in Nicaragua. Some 100 year old mahogany and Caribbean pine. The grains are amazing.
It's been a long time, I know, but I started work on my Yuloh today.
I chose white oak. I wanted the lighter colored wood.
Here are a few pictures of the first day of my project.
I'm going with 1/2" walls. This shows the strips for three 4' sections, 8 strips each.
Here's a test piece to make sure the birds mouth is right.
I used a dado blade at a 45°angle.
I clamped a board to the fence so I didn't cut into the fence itself, since my cut was right against the fence. In the background you can see a fingerboard used to hold the piece where it meets the saw blade.
This is the layout for the cuts I need to make.
The outside diameter will be 2", 1" inside.
The fingerboard tells me when to stop...
and use the push stick.
The birds' mouths all cut.
Now for the test assembly.
It has two issues. One, couple of the joints aren't fitting exactly, and two, the outside diameter is 2-1/2"
That's understandable because I did not cut the overall widths for the strips. I took boards finished out between 7/8" to 1" thick, and ripped my 1/2" wall thickness. So, not all the strips are the same measurements across their widths. Since most of the strips are 1" instead of 3/4", the diameter was too big.
No problem, I just had to rip the back edge down to make my widths 3/4" for all the strips. Here's the final assembly:
Much better.
I have a show in Armonk, NY to sell at this weekend, so I won't get these glued until I get home on Monday.
-Will
I chose white oak. I wanted the lighter colored wood.
Here are a few pictures of the first day of my project.
I'm going with 1/2" walls. This shows the strips for three 4' sections, 8 strips each.
Here's a test piece to make sure the birds mouth is right.
I used a dado blade at a 45°angle.
I clamped a board to the fence so I didn't cut into the fence itself, since my cut was right against the fence. In the background you can see a fingerboard used to hold the piece where it meets the saw blade.
This is the layout for the cuts I need to make.
The outside diameter will be 2", 1" inside.
The fingerboard tells me when to stop...
and use the push stick.
The birds' mouths all cut.
Now for the test assembly.
It has two issues. One, couple of the joints aren't fitting exactly, and two, the outside diameter is 2-1/2"
That's understandable because I did not cut the overall widths for the strips. I took boards finished out between 7/8" to 1" thick, and ripped my 1/2" wall thickness. So, not all the strips are the same measurements across their widths. Since most of the strips are 1" instead of 3/4", the diameter was too big.
No problem, I just had to rip the back edge down to make my widths 3/4" for all the strips. Here's the final assembly:
Much better.
I have a show in Armonk, NY to sell at this weekend, so I won't get these glued until I get home on Monday.
-Will
I have one section glued up.
My son bought this West System stuff called G/Flex. It is suppose to be used where flexing and movement around the bond are expected. I'd say a yuloh qualifies for that.
That's a bamboo kabob skewer I'm using. It worked pretty well.
What was kinda neat about it was that little 45° in one corner. It would push the glue up out of the bottom of the birds mouth and leave a bead where that notch was, spreading the glue up to the peaks of the beak.
Here are the first two staves. I took a minute to rub the two sticks back and forth together to help spread the glue on both surfaces.
3, then, luckily, before the 45 minute working time was up... (I had to mix 2 more beads of glue and hardener half way through).
I clamped using a length of parachute cord.
I think it came out pretty well.
The whole thing is an inch longer than the finished size. It'll be ready to unwrap in the morning.
-Will
My son bought this West System stuff called G/Flex. It is suppose to be used where flexing and movement around the bond are expected. I'd say a yuloh qualifies for that.
That's a bamboo kabob skewer I'm using. It worked pretty well.
What was kinda neat about it was that little 45° in one corner. It would push the glue up out of the bottom of the birds mouth and leave a bead where that notch was, spreading the glue up to the peaks of the beak.
Here are the first two staves. I took a minute to rub the two sticks back and forth together to help spread the glue on both surfaces.
3, then, luckily, before the 45 minute working time was up... (I had to mix 2 more beads of glue and hardener half way through).
I clamped using a length of parachute cord.
I think it came out pretty well.
The whole thing is an inch longer than the finished size. It'll be ready to unwrap in the morning.
-Will
I am not sure if you needed the flexibility of the G-flex because your flex is dependant on the wood, not the glue. One thing that was a great help to you is the curing time. It is REALLY SLOW..... I would give it several days before you start machining on it.
Thanks. The instructions suggest avoiding regular use for 72 hours. I have two other sections to glue up like that, and the blade.
The central wood I chose for the blade is hickory. Not the best marine wood, but it is pretty. I'll edge it in white oak and give it a layer of glass cloth to seal and protect it. The white oak edging will need to be steam bent at the blade's shoulders.
I also have to carve something for the pommel. I'm thinking a dragon head. Here's what Nano Banana came up with using Gemini's prompt:
I don't think it will look quite like this example, but it has some inspiring elements. You can see an example of the bronze ferrule I'll need to make to hold the whole loom together.
After some discussion with Gemini and a little online research, I need a metal tube with 2" inside diameter (for bronze or brass, 1/8" walls) with about a 6" overlap. I'll pin one side to each section, and include some sort of key to prevent rotation. The loom's bend can be built into one of the ferrules.
I can't believe how expensive a simple marine bronze tube costs. It'll be over $100 per 1 foot section!
.Maybe 316 stainless will be my final product. Not quite the look I wanted, but the bright silver, modern look could grow on me.
-Will
Looking good. From the photos, looks like you used gflex 655 - I think that is an excellent choice. Especially if you are also using it for the oak to adhere to the hickory.
I get the bronze is expensive but it's a better choice over stainless for what you are doing.
Love the ideas for the ends - just be sure it's friendly on your hands.
dj
I get the bronze is expensive but it's a better choice over stainless for what you are doing.
Love the ideas for the ends - just be sure it's friendly on your hands.
dj
Yes. I don't think I'll put much embellishment where my hands will actually work the loom. I'd hate watching the decorations wear under their use.
I am thinking about keeping the corners, for now, on the main two sections and using their high relief to carve leaves and such from the extra material. Maybe a vine pattern that wraps around the shaft over the Celtic knots. The top section, the handle, will be rounded and smooth to the grip.
-Will