Windlass suddenly tripping main breaker

Feb 16, 2021
235
Hunter Legend 35.5 Bellingham
I just realized I should clarify my terms @jssailem. Every time I have said “main breaker”, I was referencing the DC breaker at the Battery DC Parallel Panel (picture uploaded). I was not referencing the DC Main breaker at the Main DC Panel. In my mind the breaker at the battery bank, being that it is upstream of the main DC panel, is the true “main breaker”. I just realized that I may have been using inappropriate terms in this regard and caused confusion.

To reiterate the situation with that clarification, the breaker at the DC Parallel Panel trips every time I use the windlass (the DC Main breaker at the Main DC Panel does not trip, never has in my experience). The power to the Main DC Panel simply cuts out as the upstream breaker at the DC Parallel Panel has tripped. This happens every time I activate the windlass, up or down, with the batteries fully charged and engine running at 1500rpm.
 
Feb 16, 2021
235
Hunter Legend 35.5 Bellingham
On a whim, I tried switching off the DC Main at the Main DC Panel before testing the windlass, and it worked perfectly. The DC breaker at the parallel panel that was tripping every time before did not trip. Somehow having the Main DC Panel breaker on caused the breaker at the Parallel Panel to trip when using the windlass, even though every single switch on the DC Main Panel was in the off position. I would love to know why this is so I can address it. I at least have a workaround, but would rather not have to completely turn off the Main DC Panel every time I want to use the windlass.
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,321
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
On a whim, I tried switching off the DC Main at the Main DC Panel before testing the windlass, and it worked perfectly. The DC breaker at the parallel panel that was tripping every time before did not trip. Somehow having the Main DC Panel breaker on caused the breaker at the Parallel Panel to trip when using the windlass, even though every single switch on the DC Main Panel was in the off position. I would love to know why this is so I can address it. I at least have a workaround, but would rather not have to completely turn off the Main DC Panel every time I want to use the windlass.
You're will need to spend some quality time with a Digital Voltmeter to trace the circuits. Once you have a diagram, the cause of the problem will become clear.
 
Feb 16, 2021
235
Hunter Legend 35.5 Bellingham
Again I’m back to square one. I just ran the same test with the Main DC Panel switched off, and the breaker at the DC Parallel Panel tripped again when I operated the windlass. I was hoping to sort this out here but it looks like I will have to sort this out when I’m back in port.
 
Dec 4, 2017
79
Hunter 466 Seattle
Again I’m back to square one. I just ran the same test with the Main DC Panel switched off, and the breaker at the DC Parallel Panel tripped again when I operated the windlass. I was hoping to sort this out here but it looks like I will have to sort this out when I’m back in port.
Mine worked great for a month after I bought my boat, then became intermittent. It would only throw the breaker if I powered the anchor down but worked just okay bringing it up... did this for a while, then nothing. Was a bummer being in the San Juans for a couple weeks without a reliable way to anchor.
 
Feb 16, 2021
235
Hunter Legend 35.5 Bellingham
Disconnect the power cables from the motor. (make sure the ends do not touch anything) and operate the windlass. If the problem is in the controller box, the breaker will trip. If the problem is in the motor the breaker won't trip.
@dlochner, I finally found a wiring diagram and was able to follow your sound advice. Disconnecting the motor and operating the windlass control thoroughly in both up and down did not trip the breaker, so it seems the issue lies with the motor itself. Were I able to do this earlier I could have saved some time spent checking the other connections.
Next is to see if I can service the motor, or if it is better replaced.
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,989
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Sounds like you have been testing the anchor windlass.
It appears your “DC Parallel Panel” connects your two batteries is this how the House Battery is charged?
61B307AC-DD05-4E18-B70D-9360C05F0FB1.jpeg


Having run your windlass has the battery discharged? How is the wiring behind the panel run? What does it connect to? How does the engine alternator charge the house battery? Anywhere along the electrical path, has corrosion raised its resistance ugliness?

With the multiple switches there are multiple places ground connections may have issues. The Digital Multi Meter is your friend to help you isolate the issue.
 
Jan 4, 2006
6,444
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
Next is to see if I can service the motor, or if it is better replaced.
Brilliant idea.

Bust your butt removing the motor and tearing it apart. Hope that you've found "something" that was causing the overload problem. Put it all back together, only to find it still does the same thing. BREAKER ? ? ? ? ?

BUY A MULTI METER ! USE THE MULTI METER !

According to many on this site, the multi meter is more feared than sea serpents and The Bermuda Triangle :yikes:.

There, I said what needed saying :facepalm:.
 
Last edited:
Feb 16, 2021
235
Hunter Legend 35.5 Bellingham
Back in my home port. I have projects for the weekend, but will take the multimeter to the boat next week to check the draw at the windlass. I did attempt to clean the wiring from the solenoid to the motor, and it was a lost cause - the positive wire to the motor is corroded well up and into the insulation.

One thing - I spoke with Blue Sea, and the 100amp breaker at the house switch is a magnetic hydraulic type which trips immediately when there is too much draw, while the windlass 70amp breaker is thermal and takes longer to trip. This explains why the 100amp breaker tripped before the 70amp windlass breaker.
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,321
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
I did attempt to clean the wiring from the solenoid to the motor, and it was a lost cause - the positive wire to the motor is corroded well up and into the insulation.
Time to replace that wire and use heat shrink terminals. The corrosion would increase resistance in the wire and not allow current to flow properly.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,665
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Back in my home port. I have projects for the weekend, but will take the multimeter to the boat next week to check the draw at the windlass. I did attempt to clean the wiring from the solenoid to the motor, and it was a lost cause - the positive wire to the motor is corroded well up and into the insulation.

One thing - I spoke with Blue Sea, and the 100amp breaker at the house switch is a magnetic hydraulic type which trips immediately when there is too much draw, while the windlass 70amp breaker is thermal and takes longer to trip. This explains why the 100amp breaker tripped before the 70amp windlass breaker.
Unless you have a DC clamp meter, and one that's capable of measuring over 100A , your DVM is not capable of measuring the amperage being used by the windlass.
 
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Jan 4, 2006
6,444
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
I did attempt to clean the wiring from the solenoid to the motor, and it was a lost cause - the positive wire to the motor is corroded well up and into the insulation.
As @Maine Sail has mentioned, you meter probably can't read high amperage flow but do send us whatever numbers you can get.

If you're seeing badly corroded wiring in and around the windlass motor, remember that corrosion increases the resistance of the wire and reduces the amperage draw. Corrosion is not good but it's not the CAUSE of your excessive amperage draw. Look for wiring that has lost its insulation as a maybe. A short to ground will pull current like there's no tomorrow. Maybe the corrosion products are shorted from a wire to the motor casing. Anything is possible so keep an open mind.

More importantly, see if you can put to rest whether the windlass wiring goes through the electrical panel or is wired directly to the windlass.

You'll figure this thing out, or else ........................
 
Feb 16, 2021
235
Hunter Legend 35.5 Bellingham
As @Maine Sail has mentioned, you meter probably can't read high amperage flow but do send us whatever numbers you can get.

If you're seeing badly corroded wiring in and around the windlass motor, remember that corrosion increases the resistance of the wire and reduces the amperage draw. Corrosion is not good but it's not the CAUSE of your excessive amperage draw. Look for wiring that has lost its insulation as a maybe. A short to ground will pull current like there's no tomorrow. Maybe the corrosion products are shorted from a wire to the motor casing. Anything is possible so keep an open mind.

More importantly, see if you can put to rest whether the windlass wiring goes through the electrical panel or is wired directly to the windlass.

You'll figure this thing out, or else ........................
Ah. Yup, seems my multimeter is only rated to 10A. I will give it a shot and see what numbers I can get, regardless.
The windlass is not wired to the electrical panel, only to a dedicated thermal breaker. The wiring diagram I have found for this windlass seems to accurately represent my setup (my setup has the rocker switch and remote). What the diagram does NOT show is the 100amp house breaker at the DC Parallel Panel, which is what is tripping each time I try to use the windlass. Again, this breaker does NOT trip when I disconnect the windlass motor from the control box and operate the switches (I can hear the solenoids clicking on "up" and "down"), so it seems the issue lies with the motor.

Is there anything I can currently do aside from replacing the corroded positive wire to troubleshoot/check the motor? Do the tests already performed not clearly indicate the problem source to be the motor? If so, further testing of the connections seem beside the point and it does seem that the next step is to pull the motor and check all connections there as well as I can.

Or is my next step to purchase a DC clamp meter as @mainesail suggests an check the draw with that?
 

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Jan 11, 2014
11,321
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Is there anything I can currently do aside from replacing the corroded positive wire to troubleshoot/check the motor?
Take the motor off the windlass and then to an electric motor shop for a check up. While it might not be the cause, having the brushes replaced and the armature cleaned will be helpful in the long run.
 
Jan 4, 2006
6,444
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
Ah. Yup, seems my multimeter is only rated to 10A. I will give it a shot and see what numbers I can get, regardless.
Maybe not such a good idea. All it will do is blow the tiny little glass fuse in your multimeter. It's not the end of the world but finding the correctly sized replacement fuse is the next closest thing to the end of the world.

Take the motor off the windlass and then to an electric motor shop for a check up. While it might not be the cause, having the brushes replaced and the armature cleaned will be helpful in the long run.
If the motor sits in your anchor locker, yes, it's probably in pretty rough shape if it's never been overhauled before. Pretty rough shape, but NOT the cause of the 100A breaker tripping as you have outlined. A dead short at the motor will not affect your panel breaker.

Or is my next step to purchase a DC clamp meter as @mainesail suggests an check the draw with that?
Yes, having a clamp on DC ammeter provides the final answer if you're really interested with this problem. You might be able to get something under $100 on Amazon. All you're really after is a close reading to what's happening. Be careful as some of the meters claim to have clamp on DC amperage but the meter face only shows AC amps.

If you haven't already physically followed every single inch of your windlass heavy wiring back to the battery, I suggest you do so to satisfy yourself the installation agrees with the drawing. The drawing doesn't show the 100A panel breaker because the drawing is produced by the windlass mfg. who is only interested in the windlass wiring.

I've got to admit, I still can't see how your windlass motor can trip your 100A panel breaker if it's wired as the diagram shows. My windlass, on my boat, is every bit as likely to trip your panel breaker just as much as your windlass is capable of tripping it.
It just doesn't make sense.
 
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LloydB

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Jan 15, 2006
804
Macgregor 22 Silverton
Before you take the motor off you might try cleaning positive and negative wires that go to the motor and measuring with your meter how much resistance the motor actually has compared to what the specs say it's supposed to have.
 
Feb 16, 2021
235
Hunter Legend 35.5 Bellingham
I've got to admit, I still can't see how your windlass motor can trip your 100A panel breaker if it's wired as the diagram shows. My windlass, on my boat, is every bit as likely to trip your panel breaker just as much as your windlass is capable of tripping it.
It just doesn't make sense.
Just to clarify it is the 100amp “House” breaker on the DC Parallel Panel that is tripping. It is not the main breaker on the electrical panel.

I did get a clamp on ammeter, and when I just now tested the windlass motor positive cable, the reading was initially ~25amps when starting up the windlass, and subsequently settled down to ~16amps. It sounded a little rougher at the start, but then sped up as if there was physical resistance within the windlass that cleared after running for a moment. Strange, but the House breaker on the DC parallel panel did not trip. I ran the windlass both directions for 10-15 seconds, but the breaker did not trip.

I have no idea what is going on with that breaker or why it occasionally trips. I couldn’t not raise anchor with the windlass before because it kept tripping immediately whenever I tried to operate it.