Correct, I am familiar and follow these best practices with the windlass - I don’t use the windlass to pull the boat to the anchor, nor do I use the windlass to break the anchor free. Let the boat do the work, save the windlass. This boat is new to us, and I can’t speak to how the PO treated the windlass. It was working fine until Friday, and I have used it only about 3 times (treating it properly each time). The mystery is what would have caused it to fail now.
Windlass suddenly tripping main breaker
- Thread starter skunther
- Start date
Ok, I'm just a dumb kid, but it seems to me that the windlass has been there for almost 30 years so it is probably wired correctly. The main breaker is probably too small to ever hold the windlass motor under load. It shouldn't be too difficult to see what the ratings of the breakers are.
The controls are wired through the main breaker so that is where you should look for a problem. One question is why does the main breaker trip instead of the windlass breaker on the panel?
Troubleshooting by first assuming the 30 year old boat was wired wrong from the factory is a fool's errand.
If the windlass is wired correctly it should have a large ~150 amp fuse that is separate from the main panel. Since it has solenoid, the solenoid is on a separate low amperage circuit that controls the feed to the windlass motor. If the solenoid circuit shorts, then the main breaker may blow, although one would expect the solenoid breaker should blow first.
It is possible the low amperage breaker failed in the closed position and was no longer able to trip. This would allow an over current in the solenoid/control box to cause the main breaker to trip.
The problem is likely in the control box or the up/down switches.
A windlass is not to be wired through the DC panel.....
The windlass should be a direct connection to the battery, battery switch or the switched distribution bus.
Battery > House Bank Battery Fuse > Battery Switch > Dedicated Windlass Breaker > Windlass
And the control circuitry? I love that 4/0 wire going to the rocker switch.
Sorry, like I said, I'm just a dumb kid.
Much thanks for the input everyone. This is my first windlass problem, and I am learning much. It seems the boat was manufactured without a windlass installed, and a PO had this one installed sometime in the early 2000s. Correct me if I am wrong, but from the input so far I understand that, if wired correctly, the windlass should be wired directly to the battery, bus or battery switch, while the control should be wired through the main panel. If the source of issue is the switches or windlass control box, the main breaker could trip while the windlass would actually still have power but no controller to operate it (hence my thinking that the windlass itself was tripping the main). I could verify whether the problem lies with the controller/switches or the windlass by disconnecting power to the windlass, operating the switches and seeing if the main still trips. Assuming it does, my solution is to then check the solenoid breaker, the control box and the switches.
If there is a windlass solenoid breaker onboard, I have never seen it. Where is it likely to be? I assume it should look like the windlass breaker?
If there is a windlass solenoid breaker onboard, I have never seen it. Where is it likely to be? I assume it should look like the windlass breaker?
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No
The windlass breaker supports the wires leading to large draw of the windlass motor. The solenoid wires are nearly control wires are much less in gauge due to a much smaller load. Big load big breaker, small load small breaker.
Suspect the panel breaker marked windlass is your solenoid breaker.
And yes, a windlass is a dealer or boat owner add on not a manufacturer's OEM.
That may have been true, but IIRC, for example Catalina's 5 Series boats all now come with windlasses. While they may be options, if ordered they are OEM. Other brands on their newer boats may be, too. Of course, what you say was true in the good old days, and instruments and fridges and "entertainment" (i.e., stereos, now TVs) were, too.
The windlass power breaker should be in the neighbourhood of the batteries. This is where I installed mine.
After a few breaker cycles, breakers can weaken and pop at a lower draw. If all else fails put in a new breaker.
I have a Simpson Lawrence Horizon 1500 windlass and I had a similar issue. I was told it was probably high resistance caused by corrosion or a loose connection. So I went through every connection (which required removing 110 lbs of lead ballast that was glued in with 5200 over the negative busbar.) That didn't work. Maybe it was motor brushes... dismantled, verified the gearing was in good working order. cleaned grease out of the pawls and replaced with machine oil. Brushes looked fine. Tried replacing the thermal breaker. Nope. Bypasses the switch on the DC panel. No dice. (Also, I think this DC panel breaker goes to the solenoid switch and just allows the solenoid to be energized, not the motor itself.) Then I replaced the solenoid. nothing. Then I took the actual motor out of the windlass (again) and to a local rebuilder. The motor itself was the problem all along. The magnets had come away from the housing, to which there is no fix/rebuild possible. When faced with the idea of brand new windlass or a new motor for a 20 year old one, I decided to just go with a new motor so that I didn't have to deal with the mounting/install issues of a different footprint. New motor installed, she now works like a champ. Let me know if you want a new motor, I can look up who I bought mine through.
Are you saying we should not have a breaker on the DC panel that provides protection to the up/down switches and solenoid on the low power side of the solenoid? Or just that the cables pulling 75+ amps should not be going through the DC panel?
The 70amp breaker marked “windlass” I referenced next to the main panel seems to have pretty large gauge wire. Assuming this indicates the breaker is to the windlass itself and not the solenoid/control box. Location of solenoid breaker remains a mystery.
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I only see the one 70amp breaker next to the main panel. Nothing at the battery switch. The main breaker that keeps tripping is rated 100amp. The windlass itself is rated to draw 60amps when loaded.
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Looks pretty hefty to me. Any chance we can see the other side of the plywood panel which should show the face of the breaker ?
Mine is a Simpson Lawrence Sprint 1000. If all else fails I may hit you up for your reference. Thanks @VisionPNW
That's the little beast you're after.
Now, according to the info we have so far, you want to follow both wires and see where they go. One will go to your 100A (+) buss bar and the other will go to your windlass. Take the far end of the wire where it connects to the 100A (+) buss barr and stretch it all the way to a (+) connection of your house batteries.
Saying is easier than doing. Somewhere you've got to come up with that piece of cable to the batteries. The (-) will also have to be fed from the windlass to the house battery terminal.
Yeah, I know, this is just getting more and more detailed as we go along. Probably best to wait until you get back to home port and do the job properly rather than failing again or WORSE !
Now, according to the info we have so far, you want to follow both wires and see where they go. One will go to your 100A (+) buss bar and the other will go to your windlass. Take the far end of the wire where it connects to the 100A (+) buss barr and stretch it all the way to a (+) connection of your house batteries.
Saying is easier than doing. Somewhere you've got to come up with that piece of cable to the batteries. The (-) will also have to be fed from the windlass to the house battery terminal.
Yeah, I know, this is just getting more and more detailed as we go along. Probably best to wait until you get back to home port and do the job properly rather than failing again or WORSE
!
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@skunther
Apologize for the confusion.
Your panel identifies "DC Main". We have not seen the back side of that panel or any clarity that it is a "100AMP" breaker. I accept you stating that.
Further your DC Panel does not show a "windlass" breaker. It has been normal for the windlass solenoid to be attached to the DC Panel as the solenoid is a low powered switch.
The large breaker marked "WINDLASS" is the normal breaker that connects to the motor of the windlass. It draws significant current. The specs is for 70AMPS at 42 Volts. I note in examining the breaker on BlueSea site that it has been discontinued and replaced.
Not sure how your unit is wired. I would at the least explore all of these issues. You may have a contactor (control box) that has worn out or corroded and is causing what you experience.
As in Ralph's boat, sometimes the 12V switch circuit is wired thru the Main DC Panel.
Apologize for the confusion.
Your panel identifies "DC Main". We have not seen the back side of that panel or any clarity that it is a "100AMP" breaker. I accept you stating that.
Further your DC Panel does not show a "windlass" breaker. It has been normal for the windlass solenoid to be attached to the DC Panel as the solenoid is a low powered switch.
The large breaker marked "WINDLASS" is the normal breaker that connects to the motor of the windlass. It draws significant current. The specs is for 70AMPS at 42 Volts. I note in examining the breaker on BlueSea site that it has been discontinued and replaced.
185-Series Thermal Circuit Breaker, 70 A
7012. Discontinued - replaced by PN 7085
- Amperage. 70A
- Maximum Voltage. 42V DC
- Ignition protected - Safe for installation aboard gasoline powered boats
- Meets SAE J1171 external ignition protection requirements
- Weather Resistant
- Combines switching and circuit breaker function into one unit*
- "Trip Free" - cannot be held closed after trip
- * Do not use for direct control of high inrush loads such as motor starting.
Here is the replacement. 285-Series Circuit Breaker - Panel Mount 70A - Blue Sea Systems
Looks identical to the one I purchased.
I connected my windlass using the above breaker It is connected between the battery positive bar and the windlass contactor (in some cases the "control box"). The windlass is not connected through he DC Panel on my boat.
The contactor is then connected to the motor with large wires and the there is a 12V power take off to trigger the switches through the contactor or the control box. (see diagram)
Not sure how your unit is wired. I would at the least explore all of these issues. You may have a contactor (control box) that has worn out or corroded and is causing what you experience.
As in Ralph's boat, sometimes the 12V switch circuit is wired thru the Main DC Panel.
That's the way it was on my H356. You had to crawl under the Nav Station to see the distribution panel and breaker. If I remember correctly that's where the battery switch was. But on the 356 there was a separate "Panel" (Switched distribution bus?) for the windless and labeled as such.