Windlass suddenly tripping main breaker

[skunther]

I have a 1993 Simpson Lawrence Sprint windlass that was working without any issues until yesterday when it tripped the main breaker. All other electronics are off, the only thing drawing on the battery is the windlass. When I reset the breaker it would work for 1/2 second and trip the main breaker again. I have since lubricated and checked the windlass without any load (removed the chain) and it continued tripping the main breaker. I then cleaned and checked the connections at the windlass and breaker, and it still trips the main breaker. My next step seems to be to check the brushes and replace them if worn, but I’m wondering what might have caused it to suddenly start tripping the main breaker each time I try to use it. Again, it was working fine since we got the boat 2 months ago and the batteries are all fairly new and fully charged.

 

[MikeHoncho]

Sounds internal.

 

[dlochner]

Does this windlass have a separate controller box with a solenoid in it or are the switches wired directly to the windlass? If it has a separate controller, then the solenoid may have failed.

 

[jssailem]

I’m wondering what might have caused it to suddenly start tripping the main breaker each time I try to use it.

Corrosion. It has been working on the unit since it came new from the box and was installed.

Work your inspection from the easiest to the hardest. I’d examine the electrical first. From battery to the windlass. When breakers break my question why starts with;

• Somewhere along the path there is resistance heating things up, I wonder where?

 

[skunther]

Does this windlass have a separate controller box with a solenoid in it or are the switches wired directly to the windlass? If it has a separate controller, then the solenoid may have failed.

Yes, there is a separate controller box just below the windlass that the remote switches (a handheld at the anchor locker and a rocker switch at the nav station) are wired to. I read that there are two solenoids (I assume both in the controller box), one solenoid for up and one for down. If this is true, is it likely for both solenoids to fail similtaneously? The main breaker trips when the windlass is operated in either up or down.

 

[jssailem]

main breaker trips when the windlass is operated in either up or down.

Leads me to wonder. Is there a short when the sailor attempts to trigger the windlass into action?

 

[dlochner]

Yes, there is a separate controller box just below the windlass that the remote switches (a handheld at the anchor locker and a rocker switch at the nav station) are wired to. I read that there are two solenoids (I assume both in the controller box), one solenoid for up and one for down. If this is true, is it likely for both solenoids to fail similtaneously? The main breaker trips when the windlass is operated in either up or down.

Disconnect the power cables from the motor. (make sure the ends do not touch anything) and operate the windlass. If the problem is in the controller box, the breaker will trip. If the problem is in the motor the breaker won't trip.

The solenoids might have failed, or something came loose in the controller box and shorted, or corrosion may be causing a problem. If it is in the box, the box will need to be opened and inspected.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Am I just being picky here or does anyone else here wonder why the MAIN breaker trips but the WINDLASS breaker doesn't trip ? That's the way it's written.

Is there any way you can load up the main breaker without touching the windlass ? Reefer, all lights, and everything else on board which is electrical. I'd be suspicious of the main breaker becoming weaker.

Can you supply ratings for:

Main breaker:
Windlass breaker:
Windlass rated amperage:

Any chance there's a ammeter anywhere in the DC circuit ?

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

After just getting the crap beat out of me by our parrot here and now he's left to pick on someone else, this breaker problem makes even less sense.

You're windlass doesn't come off your main DC breaker, the windlass is too big. It comes directly off your batteries with its own circuit breaker. At least it SHOULD be wired that way.

Can you please confirm how the windlass is wired ?

 

[leo310]

Ours is from the house battery to a 300 amp breaker/switch (On/Off). Something like this diagram.

 

[skunther]

After just getting the crap beat out of me by our parrot here and now he's left to pick on someone else, this breaker problem makes even less sense.

You're windlass doesn't come off your main DC breaker, the windlass is too big. It comes directly off your batteries with its own circuit breaker. At least it SHOULD be wired that way.

Can you please confirm how the windlass is wired ?

Sorry to hear about your parrot, I imagine it has a confounding effect on many things (I had a parrot as a child).

When operating the windlass, the windlass breaker does not trip, only the main breaker trips. The windlass does not operate when the main breaker is tripped. I believe this is enough to determine that the windlass is wired through the main breaker and not directly to the batteries. Should the windlass then be re-wired to skip the main breaker and instead be wired directly to the batteries (of course, while keeping the windlass breaker)?

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Sorry to hear about your parrot,

Sorry for the parrot ? ? ? What about me, I take the beating (pecking) !

But anyway, getting back to the problem at hand yes, it does appear that someone got their wires crossed in this wiring job.

The windlass does not operate when the main breaker is tripped. I believe this is enough to determine that the windlass is wired through the main breaker and not directly to the batteries.

I can only suppose that the main breaker was right on the border of tripping for all these years it did work. Now it's a little weaker and can't take the load. It's still good and erring a little bit more on the safe side.

Should the windlass then be re-wired to skip the main breaker and instead be wired directly to the batteries (of course, while keeping the windlass breaker)?

Absolutely. Mind you, the light weight #16 control wiring must still go throught your main breaker and then its own dedicated breaker. You may want to check out all of the heavy wiring to the windlass as well as the windlass breaker as the installer may have screwed up the wire sizing as well.

 

[skunther]

I can only suppose that the main breaker was right on the border of tripping for all these years it did work. Now it's a little weaker and can't take the load. It's still good and erring a little bit more on the safe side.

Makes sense. Maybe I should switch that out too if it's now compromised from too many trips.

Absolutely. Mind you, the light weight #16 control wiring must still go throught your main breaker and then its own dedicated breaker. You may want to check out all of the heavy wiring to the windlass as well as the windlass breaker as the installer may have screwed up the wire sizing as well.

Got it. That will have to wait until we're back at our marina. Currently we're stuck at anchor, fortunately close to amenities. I'm looking for an adequate short term fix until we get back to our marina.

Seems the best solution for now is to bypass the main breaker and connect directly to the house bank (if I can positively identify the windlass wiring at the main breaker). Alternately, mightn't switching out the main breaker also address the issue? If it worked for the life of the windlass until now, it seems it should work again for an equal duration (windlass installed sometime in the early 2000s or so...), no?

Looking for the quickest and easiest yet thorough fix.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Looking for the quickest and easiest yet thorough fix.

Maybe look for some guy on the dock with a size 18 neck and a size 5 hat and invite him along for the remainder of the cruise.

Really worried about any quick workarounds for this. Any chance to steal the existing cables from the DC panel and lead them to the windlass circuit breaker ?

If you're near amenities, maybe get new cables made up which you need to wire from the batteries directly to the windlass breaker. See IF you can get new cables made up to match the existing cable size but NOTHING less that #2 AWG because it's common and it has the ampacity. Not exactly engineered but close enough for government work. Even get excessive length and size and mount later.

Alternately, mightn't switching out the main breaker also address the issue?

Just wrong in so, so many ways. And doubtful you could find a matching breaker in anything less than a month. Just too close to the tripping current.

 

[dlochner]

The main breaker will trip if the windlass breaker is larger than the main breaker.

Typically the solenoid breaker will be on the main panel with a separate breaker for the windlass motor.

Got it. That will have to wait until we're back at our marina. Currently we're stuck at anchor, fortunately close to amenities. I'm looking for an adequate short term fix until we get back to our marina.

How's your back? While it ain't pretty, anchors and chains can be hauled by hand. Windlasses are a luxury for some. Yes, I've hauled 150 ft of chain and a 33# anchor off the bottom.

Looking for the quickest and easiest yet thorough fix.

These kinds of solutions never work well.

Locate the problem and work from there.

 

[Terry Cox]

I've hauled 150 ft of chain and a 33# anchor off the bottom.

Our windlass is wired directly from the house bank, not from the main breaker. It has a dedicated 80 amp breaker for protection. Tripped it once when the windlass became overloaded and I was too slow to catch it in time. Took awhile to figure out how to reset the breaker.

But there was a time when I overlooked connecting the black windlass power cables to the house bank battery when they were replaced. That was the time I had to haul up a 40 pound Danforth, twenty pound lead ball and 50 feet of chain by hand. Our power up and manual drop Maxwell has been a very dependable crew member over the years. Thank you very much.

 

[Tom J]

How's your back? While it ain't pretty, anchors and chains can be hauled by hand. Windlasses are a luxury for some. Yes, I've hauled 150 ft of chain and a 33# anchor off the bottom.

 

[skunther]

How's your back? While it ain't pretty, anchors and chains can be hauled by hand. Windlasses are a luxury for some. Yes, I've hauled 150 ft of chain and a 33# anchor off the bottom.

Yup, done it more than I’d like. Would prefer to save my back for the kid, but what must be done will be. I’ll see what I can sort out tomorrow. Otherwise it will be one daddy windlass for one day, and mooring balls and reciprocal slips until back home.

 

[jssailem]

@skunther Motor up to the anchor. Let the boat bob up and down to break the anchor out of the bottom. Lift with your legs.

 

[dlochner]

@skunther Motor up to the anchor. Let the boat bob in the to break the anchor out of the bottom. Lift with your legs.

The windlass should never be used to break the anchor out of the bottom. That's a good way to burn up a windlass motor. The windlass is there to pull anchor up after it is broken out.

@jssailem is correct, put the boat in gear and use the windlass to take up the slack. When the rode is vertical, secure the rode use the boat to break the anchor out and then use the windlass to bring it up off the bottom.