Winch Grease

dLj

dLj

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Mar 23, 2017
3,434
Belliure 41 Sailing back to the Chesapeake
thinwater said:
They will protect the plastic parts from UV.

Back to the subject of dirt... where is it coming from? From the top? Covers should help a lot. In fact, if that were the source and we kept them covered, then the interval should extend for years. Under the skirt? I doubt anyone is suggesting that. Corrosion products? That would be scary. In fact, some of the greases are not too impressive that way.

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Where can I get the details of this testing? I see the fixture in image 2 is labeled with Practical Sailor. Is there a test report available? What are the alloys used in the 5 test samples? Looks like a brass/bronze alloy, a copper alloy and then three ferrous based alloys. But what exactly are all of these? What's the RPM of your tumbler test and what is tumbling against the plates? Details please. Or, direct me to where I can get them, if possible.

Thanks,

dj
 
dLj

dLj

.
Mar 23, 2017
3,434
Belliure 41 Sailing back to the Chesapeake
thinwater said:
Grease seals? When was the last time you serviced a roller bearing on a car, and they are FAR higher speed and not stainless.
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Corrosion and wear are often worse at low speeds than high speeds. When performing tribology testing, it is done at low speeds precisely for this reason. As you increase speed, you may actually see a decrease in wear. I know this sounds counter intuitive, but that is the case. Just a FYI...

dj
 
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jssailem

jssailem

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Oct 22, 2014
21,158
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Yes @dLj Practical Sailor did a complete study of the various greases on the market. @thinwater writes for them. Besides being a knowledgeable member of this band of sailors.
 
thinwater

thinwater

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Mar 26, 2011
3,423
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
dLj said:
Corrosion and wear are often worse at low speeds than high speeds. When performing tribology testing, it is done at low speeds precisely for this reason. As you increase speed, you may actually see a decrease in wear. I know this sounds counter intuitive, but that is the case. Just a FYI...

dj
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True enough. For example, at higher speeds you get hydrodynamic lubrication. Some times at low speeds you get skidding instead of rolling.

It was only intended as a thought exercise. In the wide world of industrial equipment, sail boat winches should be a pretty simple case. Trivial duty cycle, even racing.
 
dLj

dLj

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Mar 23, 2017
3,434
Belliure 41 Sailing back to the Chesapeake
thinwater said:
It was only intended as a thought exercise. In the wide world of industrial equipment, sail boat winches should be a pretty simple case. Trivial duty cycle, even racing.
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Perhaps not as trivial as one may at first think. Boat winches are being asked to run trouble free for many decades. Also, the low speed use of these winches is a tough condition. In the case of the pawls, they are a small surface area dragging across a tooth of a different alloy. Both sides of that wear couple could be damaged rapidly. The gears in the base for the multi-speed option are also dissimilar metals - at least in my winches. The winches sit stagnant for lengths of time, like in my case all winter. Non-use poses it's own special problems. Just a thought...

By the way, I just subscribed to practical sailor so I can download your article on winch grease testing. I'm still waiting for them to send me my temporary password so I can download the article...

dj
 
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J

JimInPB

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Aug 22, 2017
1,609
Hunter 26.5 West Palm Beach
thinwater said:
...And don't forget that not all oils and greases (hypoid gear types) are compatible with copper alloys because of high sulfur content. There are a few oils and greases that are quite bad for bronze...
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You have hit upon a hole in my knowledge base. If you could please explain which lubricants are bad for bronze & why, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks,
Jim
 
S

Steve L22188

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Apr 28, 2005
267
Oday 302 Lake Perry, KS
At the risk of starting an entirely new branch of this thread....I just rehabbed two, two-speed winches on an O'Day that had likely not been serviced in nearly 30 years!!! I used white lithium grease on the winches. For the experts here: is there an issue with lithium grease? Any weird reaction to the the metals in the innards of a winch?
One thing is for certain - those winches sure run better after the cleaning, lubricating and reassembly!
 
thinwater

thinwater

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Mar 26, 2011
3,423
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
There are no simple, obvious rules about which lubes are incompatible with copper and aluminum alloys, other than corrosion testing at elevated temperatures in humid conditions. It seems to relate to certain sulfurized additives, but many formulators have worked their way around that with corrosion inhibitors. As DL mentioned, non-use is a problem, since it allows the grease to wash-off certain areas and creates a single contact point. The most important tip is probably to turn the winches every month or so.
 
dLj

dLj

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Mar 23, 2017
3,434
Belliure 41 Sailing back to the Chesapeake
thinwater said:
The most important tip is probably to turn the winches every month or so.
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Not easily done year round on winches that are on a boat winterized and sitting hours away from home on land waiting for spring. Maybe I need to retire, move to a warmer climate so I can maintain my winches better. Oh right, that's another thread on here. ;)

dj
 
jviss

jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
6,748
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
Thanks @thinwater . Of course, one can reason that just using the manufacturer's supplied or recommended grease will keep you out of trouble. In my case, Harken sells a winch grease. And it's only $11 for a 3.5 oz. tube! :)
 
dLj

dLj

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Mar 23, 2017
3,434
Belliure 41 Sailing back to the Chesapeake
jviss - looks like green grease or Lewmar grease spoken about on here are the greases of choice. I'm definitely with you on the "only $11 for a 3.5 oz. tube!" but I don't have the nerve to put a smiley face after that!!!! LOL

dj
 
kloudie1

kloudie1

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Nov 6, 2006
9,903
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
Fun with grease .. :biggrin: My first job in the refinery included being the mech engineer for the grease plant.. We cooked many different greases .. it was always interesting to be there when we were making greases out of beef tallow!.. The process smelled like a fine Sunday roast baking in the oven! The kettles were big (8 ft diameter and 16 feet tall) double jacketed steam heated vessels with 40 horsepower mixers to stir the ingredients! We made grease for several different customers (Ford, Nissan, etc) as well as our own brand(s). Really interesting stuff.. our research folks who did the testing and recipes were in Sarnia, Ontario.. Great guys to work with and fun to watch the testing apparatii go through the paces..
As Drew (ThinWater) says, lots of stuff not apparent to the casual user..some very special and exacting formulations (aircraft wheel bearings) and some plain old black sticky..
 
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agprice22

agprice22

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Aug 3, 2012
2,542
Performance Cruising Telstar 28 302 Watkins Glen
Wow! All this came from my question!
By the way, I mounted the serviced winch on my mast. It is a self tailing Lewmar... I replaced the standard winch. My wife likes it! We sailed with it several times this week.

And... I used Red Tacky on the gears and bearing, and 3-in-1 on the pawls. It runs great. My wife is happy... I am happy!
 
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jviss

jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
6,748
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
agprice22 said:
3-in-1
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Uh, ho - 3-In-1? :) . I'm sure we can start a debate on this topic - Winch Pawl Oil. @thinwater

I use "light machine oil," of which I am sure there are numerous variants. But it's my understanding that 3-In-1 contains kerosene, too. Is that so?
 
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