Winch Grease

Aug 22, 2017
1,609
Hunter 26.5 West Palm Beach
...Some of the racer boys in my marina rebuild their winches every few weeks ...
Are those racer boys using the standard clicker winches, or are they using the silly expensive silent racing winches? The quiet ones are VERY sensitive to proper lubrication & lose reliability quickly if not serviced often.
 
Last edited:

Gunni

.
Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
No, just standard Harken and Lewmar two-speed winches, nearly as I can tell. Firsts and C&C.
 
Aug 3, 2012
2,542
Performance Cruising Telstar 28 302 Watkins Glen
DLj. When you service the winch on the boat, cut a hole in a cardboard box, slip it over the winch, and tape it down. This will protect you from losing parts and / or getting grease where it does not belong. If I can, I like to remove the winch, but that is not always convenient.
Light oil on the springs and pawls for me. Grease in the gears. That is my vote. The winches run fast and never stick.
 
  • Like
Likes: JimInPB
Aug 3, 2012
2,542
Performance Cruising Telstar 28 302 Watkins Glen
...and DO NOT ANYBODY say anything about “grease where it does not belong”
:badbad::laugh:
 

dLj

.
Mar 23, 2017
3,448
Belliure 41 Sailing back to the Chesapeake
DLj. When you service the winch on the boat, cut a hole in a cardboard box, slip it over the winch, and tape it down. This will protect you from losing parts and / or getting grease where it does not belong. If I can, I like to remove the winch, but that is not always convenient.
Light oil on the springs and pawls for me. Grease in the gears. That is my vote. The winches run fast and never stick.
All good advice. I've finished rebuilding the two single speed winches on the mast without incident (well except for dropping part of it in the lake which did get retrieved ). All my winches must be removed and fully rebuild. I've now started on the two - two speed winches for the jib/Genoa sheets. Attacked the first one, the one that wasn't working, and discovered that it's not cleaning that is the problem there. There are stripped gears. So I found two working - identical to mine - winches on eBay today and bought them. I figure that way I'll have spare parts - possibly even an entire replacement winch for this boat. So I'm stopped at the moment until those two arrive.

I love these old Lewmar winches - really robust designs and very easy to service. Of course that being said, I don't have experience with the new ones, those might be even better... Don't know about those...

dj
 
Aug 22, 2017
1,609
Hunter 26.5 West Palm Beach
DLj. When you service the winch on the boat, cut a hole in a cardboard box, slip it over the winch, and tape it down. This will protect you from losing parts and / or getting grease where it does not belong...
That sounds like a VERY good idea.
 

dLj

.
Mar 23, 2017
3,448
Belliure 41 Sailing back to the Chesapeake
You know by stripping and inspecting your winches on some regular frequency until you know the performance of your chosen lube.
This could be the answer to knowing what oil/grease types work best in my application. I'd just have to take a few years to see what was happening, and the issue of actually loosing parts in the frequent disassembly/reassembly is still there. So that aspect is still a concern with these old winches as nothing more than the pawls and springs are available should another small part get dropped/lost/broken during this process.

Harken and Lewmar both sell a purpose-formulated pawl oil, why second guess them?
If Harken and Lewmar would give me the specifications to what they recommend I wouldn't have to second guess them. As it is, I either have to now buy multiple oils/greases, some quite expensive (in oil and grease pricing terms) instead of simply knowing what the specification is for the recommended lubricant. Harken and Lewmar likely do not formulate their own lubricants. Much more likely they purchase off-the shelf lubricants.

So if I have the "special" lubricant for each device on my boat, I'd need a bunch of them. Add that to the list of all the lubricants I need in the rest of my life, and I'm just tired of buying them all and keeping track of them all. I simply prefer to know what base specifications are needed to lubricate all the devices I own. Then I can have a better understanding of what is good or bad. If a device needs lubrication, and I don't have the correct one on hand it may be better to lubricate with a lesser type, then know that as soon as I can get the correct type, I need to clean and re-lubricate.

dj
 
Aug 3, 2012
2,542
Performance Cruising Telstar 28 302 Watkins Glen
Ok, so how many refiners of oil are there? My guess is the pawl oil sold by the winch makers is also sold for sewing machines and other light oil applications. I cannot imagine they demand a specific formula.
Same with grease...
 
  • Like
Likes: justsomeguy
Mar 26, 2011
3,432
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
Ok, so how many refiners of oil are there? My guess is the pawl oil sold by the winch makers is also sold for sewing machines and other light oil applications. I cannot imagine they demand a specific formula.
Same with grease...
Actually, the correct question is "how many formulators are there," and that answer to that one is certainly many hundreds.

And without question, they use an off the shelf formulation.

The other questions are:
  • Have they settled on "good enough?" If you clean the winch every year, frankly, the grease does not need to be very good.
  • How many formulas may be better than "good enough," but they had no need to look farther?
  • Why have they not looked into extended service intervals? Has the tech not changed in 50 years? Interesting and disappointing at the same time. I bet they can do better. The grease they spec is now a synthetic, though years ago it would have been a far lower performing conventional.
  • Why use synthetics with a one-year interval? Normally synthetics are for high temperature (much hotter than a winch in the sun--that's nothing) and long-term oxidation. Not for one year at ambient temperatures. Curious.
And don't forget that not all oils and greases (hypoid gear types) are compatible with copper alloys because of high sulfur content. There are a few oils and greases that are quite bad for bronze.

It's complicated, and going with manufacture grease is a good call. I've tested a bunch, and I'd go with Lewmar for any winch.
 
  • Like
Likes: jviss

Ward H

.
Nov 7, 2011
3,655
Catalina 30 Mk II Barnegat, NJ
A related question. Do winch covers have value in keeping dirt/grit out of the winch when not sailing? Will they extend service interval or are they just another way to pretty up a boat?
 
May 17, 2004
5,103
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
Why have they not looked into extended service intervals? Has the tech not changed in 50 years? Interesting and disappointing at the same time. I bet they can do better. The grease they spec is now a synthetic, though years ago it would have been a far lower performing conventional.
I wonder if the service intervals are based not on the performance of the grease and oil as lubricants, but rather on the need to clean them anyway. When we got our new boat and read the winch manual saying to service annually, I'll admit that I thought "well that seems like overkill compared to what I used to do". But I will say that by the time 12 months go by a remarkable amount of dirt particles get washed off into my basin of mineral spirits. I can't imagine keeping those particles in there is healthy, regardless of the lubrication.
 
Mar 26, 2011
3,432
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
I wonder if the service intervals are based not on the performance of the grease and oil as lubricants, but rather on the need to clean them anyway. When we got our new boat and read the winch manual saying to service annually, I'll admit that I thought "well that seems like overkill compared to what I used to do". But I will say that by the time 12 months go by a remarkable amount of dirt particles get washed off into my basin of mineral spirits. I can't imagine keeping those particles in there is healthy, regardless of the lubrication.
Grease seals? When was the last time you serviced a roller bearing on a car, and they are FAR higher speed and not stainless. Construction equipment? A boat may be a salty environment, but not dusty or dirty compared to on land.

I'm not really understanding why sailors accept annual service. It seems strange. I know the stock explanation, but I've got to say they sound like excuses. Any non-sailor would think it sounded like rubbish. Just sayin'.
 
Mar 26, 2011
3,432
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
A related question. Do winch covers have value in keeping dirt/grit out of the winch when not sailing? Will they extend service interval or are they just another way to pretty up a boat?
They will protect the plastic parts from UV.

Back to the subject of dirt... where is it coming from? From the top? Covers should help a lot. In fact, if that were the source and we kept them covered, then the interval should extend for years. Under the skirt? I doubt anyone is suggesting that. Corrosion products? That would be scary. In fact, some of the greases are not too impressive that way.

 

jviss

.
Feb 5, 2004
6,748
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
That sounds like a VERY good idea.
Indeed. I also put towels on the deck, a couple of layers thick, so in case something lands there it won't bounce, will stay put.
 

jviss

.
Feb 5, 2004
6,748
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
And don't forget that not all oils and greases (hypoid gear types) are compatible with copper alloys because of high sulfur content. There are a few oils and greases that are quite bad for bronze.
Please elaborate! I've been using Supertech (Walmart) marine grease for all grease applications - could I be damaging my winches? (Except the Maxprop, for which I use the specified Lubriplate 130AA.)

"Super Tech Marine Grease is a state-of-the-art lithium complex grease. This tacky grease resists water washout even under the most severe saltwater conditions. It offers superior protection against rust, corrosion, and oxidation."
 
Mar 26, 2011
3,432
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
I don't know that brand, but I wouldn't worry.

The problem is most common with HD gear lubes, chain lubes, and bar lube. These contain high levels of sulfurized extreme pressure additives, and if exposed to warm, humid environments, they can turn acid. If this was a problem, you would see splotches of pink and black corrosion on the bronze away from the wear surfaces. Most greases contain very effective inhibitors so this is not a problem. The description suggests they have done their homework. Also, many gear lubes are intended for manual transmissions (bronze syncronizers) and thus have been formulated with this in mind.
 
  • Like
Likes: jviss