Which Trailer sailer (cruiser) -Under 2000 lbs to consider?

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Daveinet;
We can agree to disagree but there are many variables in everything. I am glad that I was never hurt or killed. It is the other things that can make a disaster happen which too often are not taken into account. I have learned sometimes the hard way, investigated accidents as an investigator also handling litigation, hired by firms in the past to do estimates and causes to the incident regarding sailboats, and the list goes on. I just come from the experience and knowledge of what I have acuquired over the years. I am not one to rely on models only but to include all aspects.

 

[ArchivalAudio]

looks like a decent fit for you?
https://redding.craigslist.org/boa/d/1986-capri-18-sailboat/6767803590.html

Nice thank you, I've always thought the capri models are a bit spartan in the cabin area. This one looks to be in nice shape. Though it has a slight bit more draft than we desire. Great suggestion.
--Ian
PS it is registered in Oregon

 

[RussC]

Nice thank you, I've always thought the capri models are a bit spartan in the cabin area. This one looks to be in nice shape. Though it has a slight bit more draft than we desire. Great suggestion.
--Ian
PS it is registered in Oregon

hum. I hadn't noticed the Or tag. wonder what the story there is. sure is well kept however. and having newer sails is always a BIG plus IMHO. I'm always looking. it's an addiction .

 

[ArchivalAudio]

You all think I'm crazy but I think our top pick is the Jim Taylor designed Wellcraft Starwind 19, seconded by the Precision 18, also designed by Mr Taylor. If you hear of any close to Oregon let me know. It does seem that since they were East coast manufactured boats they are a little bit more difficult to find out west.

 

[Will Gilmore]

Starwind 19

I just watched a walk through video of this boat. She looks perfect for what you are looking for. I hope you find one. Take a family vacation as an excuse to go farther afield to look at one.

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Starwind did not last long. Sold a couple. That is why there are not many. Suggest an experienced sailor goes with you to look as well

 

[RussC]

Here ya go. I would be asking $1500.00 more than this for mine IF I was interested in selling it, so I'd say this is a steal, and it hits all the points you're looking for.
BTW. I guess I didn't mention it before, but one other selling point for these is that they are cored with coremat. no wood to rot away in the decks. 950 pounds, solid performer, very stable, roomy cabin for its size, etc, etc. I love mine!
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/boa/d/holder-17-vagabond-17/6773526814.html

 

[ArchivalAudio]

Here ya go. I would be asking $1500.00 more than this for mine IF I was interested in selling it, so I'd say this is a steal, and it hits all the points you're looking for.
BTW. I guess I didn't mention it before, but one other selling point for these is that they are cored with coremat. no wood to rot away in the decks. 950 pounds, solid performer, very stable, roomy cabin for its size, etc, etc. I love mine!
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/boa/d/holder-17-vagabond-17/6773526814.html

Russ, thnak you - I did see this ad a few days ago... I feel that the Vagabond 17 might be a bit cramped for us, not to mention this one feels a bit dated, at least to me. However it might merit a second look.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

@ArchivalAudio

I am going to step out of line as I am going to advise you stop and seriously ask yourself what you want to do with a sailboat for a few years given what you can spend and what you can pull with as it appears you are looking at everything. I have found most of my customers agonized a lot and I suggested a daysailor in the beginning. You can only pull so much with small cars for example a Beetle unless you are willing to spend more on a real tow vehicle. A lot has been said which has been good responses for you to decide

 

[Project_Mayhem]

they were East coast manufactured

Wellcraft was the manufacturer of Starwind boats. Their website says there in Michigan. Not sure if they moved or had a plant on the East coast though. @Crazy Dave Condon do you know where they were shipped from when you were selling them?

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

It has been so long ago. I think the molds moved to Florida but cannot recall plus all records thrown away. I only purchased a couple

 

[FDL S2]

@ArchivalAudio

I am going to step out of line as I am going to advise you stop and seriously ask yourself what you want to do with a sailboat for a few years given what you can spend and what you can pull with as it appears you are looking at everything. I have found most of my customers agonized a lot and I suggested a daysailor in the beginning. You can only pull so much with small cars for example a Beetle unless you are willing to spend more on a real tow vehicle. A lot has been said which has been good responses for you to decide

This is really good advice. You aren't looking for a sailboat you'll keep for life, you're looking for a boat for the next few years. Focus on that, keep looking and you'll find the right boat and it won't be 1000 miles away.

 

[ArchivalAudio]

@ArchivalAudio
it appears you are looking at everything.

Thank you Dave for you candid responses. This response is not directed at you , but I felt that I could use your quote to illustrate my point. I appreciate everyone's responses and I try to be polite and gracious. There have lots of suggestions second guessing as to what myself and wife are truly seeking. As noted in my OP (Original Post) we understand we have a number of self imposed restrictions. I listed a few boats that I was considering, and was (am) looking for other suggestion. I am not looking at everything. We still really would like a Starwind 19. In all likelihood we would keep this boat for quite some time. We have a finite budget, our home is paid for and so are our cars, we both are on "teacher's salaries" would like to upgrade from our Buccanner 18, without need to also purchase a new vehicle that could tow more at this time - we don't want new monthly payments. If I had my way I would get a VW Touareg TDI with a 7600 lbs towing capacity. Even used they are on the low end 16k, for a high milage vehicle and upwards of 30k or a newer lower milage one. You all have your own opinions but I have yet to find any american "trucks" that get decent milage and wow me, that's my opinion. I owned a ford areostar, it was poorly designed and a gas hog, difficult to work on and generally awful but I digress. We can afford a smaller trailer sailer, but not a new bigger non fuel efficient higher towing capacity vehicle AND a sailboat. We are looking to stay within our means and budget. If we lived on the coast and had an expendable expense account I'd opt for a Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 389. - Oh I keep digressing.
I was looking for other suggestions of boats in the 18 to 21' range that could accommodate a small family a for an overnight or short cruise. We like the Starwind 19, thus far we like it the best, there are many reasons however in my searches, I though it would good to seek others thoughts. Many have shared their thoughts and I tried to be quite gracious in my replies. DID I ask should we buy a new vehicle? I think not. Did I ask should we buy a sailboat we can not tow? no. Did I ask if we should buy a bigger boat to "grow" into? absolutely not. Again in my OP I was seeking other suggestions than Starwind 19 or the Precision 18. I really appreciate that folks pointed out some boats I was unfamiliar with, and graciously accepted the suggestions. At least one person referred to me in the third person (he), which could be viewed as incredible rude. Everyone, I mean, Everyone has and is entitled to their own opinions. Everyone has their own tastes, and what some define as beautiful others may shrug off as poor design or engineering and ugly. I attempted to start a thread to seek the knowledge of others to find out about possible unknown options. If anyone sees a Starwind 19 on the west coast - please let me know, or if there is a another sub 1400 pound 19 - 20 foot trailerable "cruiser" not already suggested that would be fantastic.
Again I am not trying to be rude or offensive, so please don't take my comments that in way. I really appreciate everyones opinions. Thanks -- Ian

 

[ArchivalAudio]

A sailing buddy of mine here in Eugene knows we are looking for an upgrade to our Buccanner 18 , and it is he we got her from. he texted me this listing https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/d/17-slipper-pocket-cruiser/6777385936.html - https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/slipper-17 looks interesting , not familiar, and might be a bit small for us. He also mentioned "didn't know hake made a 17... I bet this is a nice boat"

 

[JRT]

Condition is everything, Go check out with family and make sure it fits. We looked at a lot of boats to find what fit and then found best condition.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Ian

In my 30 plus years, I as a dealer had many customers were new to sailing and taught myself to ask questions so the customer could answer them themselves. I saw many good responses but have come concerned that you may be over whelmed as to what you want but actually are restrained by expenses and the tow concerns I have if using a small vehicle. In other words I am concerned with the safety of your family and you as well. This is why I brought this up because we all want you to make a wise decision having fun sailing. Whatever you look at take a sailor with you who knows boats. There are some who flapped their jawls trying to sell a sailboat that was in deplorable condition. On one occasion I went and pointed out the crap wrong with the boat. The seller was not happy with me questioning my credentials. I wish you could have seen his face after I told him. At this point there is nothing more to say unless it is a specific question on a particular sailboat

 

[Will Gilmore]

ArchivalAudio,
It can be very frustrating to know exactly what you are looking for and be sure it's out there and not be able to find it. Your criteria are highly restrictive, as you already noted in your OP. The back and forth of the respondents here to work this problem out also can be frustrating. I come from a computer science background and hated the work-around solutions, yet those solution were more often than not the answers given by the experts. Things should work as they are suppose to and not have to have some elaborate work-around solution that avoids the issue all together. At times, the process of working out a solution on this and other forums has posters responding directly to another posters comments, which means they can refer to the original poster in the third person to show their response was aimed at someone else. Usually it is to clarify a point to someone who is perceived to have misunderstood.
As to your hunt for the right boat. I have found a San Juan 21 that is within your criteria and in Oregon, except for the CB. I haven't found a picture of the cabin layout, but 21' leaves a lot more room to move around than 19' and the CB trunk isn't hard to move around. https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/57869 This boat may not be available any more, as it was added over 2 years ago, but it is another boat to consider. I think you should get out and look at a few of these boats in person. I suggested a Mariner 19 to you early on and you were under the impression that the Mariner's cabin was more of a cuttycabin than full cabin. I own one and that is not true. However, it might be too small for you. There is also a full keel version that doesn't have the trunk in the middle of the cabin. You need to climb aboard some of these boats and experience them in person. Winter may not be the best time to do this, but it is a good time to negotiate a buy, so good luck.

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[Sumner]

The MacGregor/Venture 21' sailboats fit most of the criteria also as far as I know......

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/venture-21

.... and they introduced thousands of people into sailing and can be found for almost give away prices in some instances. They are a fairly fast boat for a boat their size in that era. They had large cockpits and that is where one is going to spend most of their time ....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/outside-31-a.html
... one could convert the cockpit into sleeping space like we did for use during fair weather.

Sumner
==========================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas

 

[JRT]

I agree with CCD on the point about concern for your family's safety. I messed up twice in our first season on our boat by sailing in conditions above my abilities and not knowing how to react properly, it caused a big problem with my wife and daughter. This year my daughter and I took classes with club instructor and have steadily improved and can pretty much handle the boat in the 'scary' conditions we had last year. The plan is to have my wife and son also take the same class with the club instructor next spring to improve her nervousness and confidence, I will not be on the boat with her.

All that is said because, I know my family would not enjoy the light tender boats you are considering, sure they are an improvement on the Buccaneer you have, but if you are not spot on the sail plan (reef early) and trim in gusting conditions, I feel all these boats will quickly be over powered and too much excitement. Just some thoughts from a father to a father, make sure you are sure your wife will be happy, since it sounds like from the first post your current boat is a bit too much excitement for her and your son.

 

[RussC]

Ian, as several of us have already pointed out, you really need to actually go look at some boats in the size range you're thinking about. You can't assume that a 19'-20' boat is more comfortable and roomy in the cabin than a 17'-18' boat. that's just not the case. when I was looking for a boat this size I was very surprised at how many, even up in the 21 - 22' range, felt very cramped. several even lacked sitting headroom in the cabin for me (I'm 6'1"). Also don't just get hooked on LOA, when it comes to comfort and stability. beam (and hull shape) is at least as important, if not more-so.
My offer is still open for you to stop by and look our two boats (Vagabond 17 and McGregor 25) over anytime you're in our area (GP). you need to get in a bunch of different models, along with your wife, and actually get some first hand experience. I'm not trying to sell you on anything, just offering to let you try on a couple different ones. You can buy and sell a half dozen different boats to find what really works for you, like we did, or do it the smart way .