Which Trailer sailer (cruiser) -Under 2000 lbs to consider?

[Will Gilmore]

ArchivalAudio, have you considered getting a larger boat and keeping her in Florence or on a large lake nearby? Looking at a map of your area, you do seem to be limited to the coast or Fern Ridge Lake. Other sailable lakes nearby look long and skinny and may be fun to sail, but it is slow hard sailing when you have to tack your way back and forth just to get home or out one away.
It doesn't sound like you have a lot of extra money to burn and keeping a slip at a marina can be expensive, but maybe larger trailersailer that gets pulled twice a season is a viable option. You can pay less if you store your boat on the trailer, but still at the marina. Call and talk to them. They may be flexible around dry storage.

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[ArchivalAudio]

This is recent and they haven't been great on updating their web site.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tr...turers/precision-boat-works-ceases-production

Oh my... That's disappointing. Thanks

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

You can still call and speak with one of the owners of Precision. His brother due to age retired. Thus no more construction but parts are available. Two Precision 15 still available.

I am surprised Rhodes 22 mfg is still going with one owner deceased and the other, Spizer, is still alive and operating

Once in North Carolina all the water ballasted boats built were in attendance for demo sailing. Practical Sailor was invited but declined.
The decision for stopping production of the water ballast Hunter 19 water ballast was left up to me by Warren Luhrs in a dealer meeting.

My best advice is to get a small day sailor for now and in five years upgrade. I question the vehicle to be used at this time for anything above a daysailor based on customers who use to pull with smaller vehicles to include VW’s

 

[ArchivalAudio]

ArchivalAudio, have you considered getting a larger boat and keeping her in Florence or on a large lake nearby? Looking at a map of your area, you do seem to be limited to the coast or Fern Ridge Lake. Other sailable lakes nearby look long and skinny and may be fun to sail, but it is slow hard sailing when you have to tack your way back and forth just to get home or out one away.
It doesn't sound like you have a lot of extra money to burn and keeping a slip at a marina can be expensive, but maybe larger trailersailer that gets pulled twice a season is a viable option. You can pay less if you store your boat on the trailer, but still at the marina. Call and talk to them. They may be flexible around dry storage.

-Will (Dragonfly)

Will, Thank you I totally appreciate the suggestions. We will likely be sailing and with luck get a slip at Fern Ridge... if not we trailer her to there. Fern Ridge is only about 25 minutes from home and keeping a sailboat in a slip at a marina will certainly make it easier to go for a sail, ands increase our opportunities. Florence is over an hour away and unless we got a large enough bluewater sailer it would be challenging sailing in the Pacific. My wife is still more of a novice sailer....

 

[Leeward Rail]

I May strongly contemplate flying to Chicago to procure the Starwind 19 via a one way flight. I've been looking into enterprise truck rentals to tow with... It seems like they are usually rented to be returned to place of pick up. Does anyone know otherwise? Or have another suggestion of a truck rental for towing a boat?

We looked into using U-Ship when getting our Catalina 22, but opted to go get the boat due to cost. (an we wanted to see it in person before handing over the cash)

The shipment route was either a long trip over the top of the great lakes, or southern route around the lakes with 2 border crosssings.

The U-ship price was high due to the route, and the timeline restrictions (which limited waiting for someone with a partially empty flatdeck)

Unfortunately I used the wrong transmission fluid when servicing our pickup before we left (cross reference docs were incorrect), and the transmission died on the way home.

We ended up renting a U-Haul van with a hitch to make it the rest of the way home.

U-haul will likely be a better choice, since they actually intend for you to tow things, and tow them one-way.
They have both pickups and vans with hitches.

 

[Leeward Rail]

The boat trailer is longer, that extra length is going to create more of a moment on your car than the teardrop and will tend to push the car anytime you turn. The short wheel base of the beetle and the narrow difference in weight could create a more than uncomfortable pairing.

This is a factor that many people overlook. Tow weight is not the only concern.
A long trailer on a light weight, or short vehicle ,will wag the dog. A wind gust can put you all over the road or into the ditch.

An addition, if you tow at the limit, it increases the chances of mechanical failure.
Keep in mind that simple increased motor performance, does not mean the transmission, other drivetrain components, and unibody/frame are magically upgraded.

I'd sell the beetle, buy a used truck/SUV (even an old Chev Astro) for around the same price, and then get the boat.

That also creates the future possibility of selling the teardrop trailer, getting a popup camper for the truck bed, and tow a boat behind it, for distant travel destinations.

 

[Daveinet]

A long trailer on a light weight, or short vehicle ,will wag the dog. A wind gust can put you all over the road or into the ditch...

Not sure I would agree that this is a universal concern. A Beetle has the rear wheels at the very end of the vehicle. This means the trailer has little leverage over the car. The close the hitch is to the rear axle, the better it will handle the trailer. While normally a short car could be a problem, it is probably not as big of a problem due to the car design. Also note, this is a heavy car, weighing over 3000 lbs.

 

[ArchivalAudio]

Not sure I would agree that this is a universal concern. A Beetle has the rear wheels at the very end of the vehicle. This means the trailer has little leverage over the car. The close the hitch is to the rear axle, the better it will handle the trailer. While normally a short car could be a problem, it is probably not as big of a problem due to the car design. Also note, this is a heavy car, weighing over 3000 lbs.

Dave, Thanks I would tend to agree. the Diesel Beetle is fairly heavy but with The HD Touring shocks and struts and the European Jetta Sedan towing springs, it tows quite solid . Curb weight: 2,989 to 3,053 lbs ... I know others will laugh and scoff. If you can see this video (from Facebook) it demonstrates how weight distribution can effect the tow vehicle...

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=822698707871734

it states: This is why loading your trailer correctly is important!

 

[ArchivalAudio]

U-haul will likely be a better choice, since they actually intend for you to tow things, and tow them one-way.
They have both pickups and vans with hitches.

My understanding when I looked into either a Van or Pick up from U-haul is that they are unlike box trucks, and are ON:Y available for Local rental, not one way and don't include any milage. This might have changed But my search indicates it has not.
This is what I looked into Enterprise Truck Rental... Ryder or penske may be another story

 

[Project_Mayhem]

not one way and don't include any milage

I considered doing a long distance, one way tow a few months ago. The quote I got from U-Haul was better than expected and included a few hundred free miles. Expect somewhere between 10-14 MPG for a small box truck.

About 10 years ago I rented a Enterprise cargo van to drive to Las Vegas for a week. Somehow I managed to do a round trip for $300 with unlimited miles. Car rental industry's rates vary from day to day and they will negotiate if you schmooze them, tell them your a business, will rent often or are considering a trip that's profitable for them. The consumer side of enterprise typically does not allow towing with their vehicles. In fact, most of their vehicles don't have hitches. Enterprise Rent-A-Truck does. Regardless, here's an interesting article on how to get a better deal from Enterprise

https://www.consumerreports.org/consumerist/9-confessions-from-a-former-enterprise-rental-salesman/
https://www.consumerreports.org/consumerist/9-confessions-from-a-former-enterprise-rental-salesman/
On another note, construction equipment rental places such as Hercules, National Lift Truck and others will rent pickups and allow towing. Rental rates were around $90/day. I'm not sure if they had any restrictions such as distance.

 

[RussC]

Any other suggestions for other possibilities would be appreciated!

Thanks--Ian

looks like a decent fit for you?
https://redding.craigslist.org/boa/d/1986-capri-18-sailboat/6767803590.html

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Please no models on towing. Seen that before and in real life there are many things to consider. One is brakes. A Catalina 22 wing keel on a single axle with no brakes is a good one. Regardless of how much weight is on the tongue with axle forward, that will sway. Most will hit the brakes and the trailer will sway violently back and forth till you have an accident as the center of gravity due to a wing keel is higher. To get out of that, You have to accelerate and then brake slowly and very slowly. First trailer sold to me without brakes, well put brakes on that trailer and every trailer after that.

 

[Sumner]

looks like a decent fit for you?
https://redding.craigslist.org/boa/d/1986-capri-18-sailboat/6767803590.html

There has to be a number of good boats, like the one above, that are a lot closer than looking in the mid-west for one. Save all the tow expense and buy a boat in better shape or use it to update what you find.

I've towed a lot, currently have 5 different trailers, and think that as much as you like the VW it might not be the safest option for towing a boat that might end up in the 2500-3000 lb. range especially if it doesn't have brakes like "CD" mentioned. We are looking at a Chevy Traverse with a 5200 lb. towing capacity but won't be selling the suburban to tow the Mac that is about 4000 lb.. If we lived where it was flatter and the tows shorter I'd say yes to the Traverse, but we don't. Just because a vehicle has a certain tow rating doesn't mean it is going to be fun towing some things with it, like a boat, that are close to that rating,

Sumner
=================================================================================

1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas

 

[Daveinet]

Dave, I can't help but think that your effort to emphasis the aggravation of the added height of a a wing keel or stub keel, you are taking away more than you intended against proper tongue weight. Tongue weight is all about simple physics. If the axle is near the center of the mass, it will pivot/oscillate. If is not at the center of mass, the propensity to oscillate is reduced. The further from the center of mass, the greater the reduction. The model is very valid. Sure a high sitting boat will make it worse, but tongue weight is the greatest factor. I towed a boat with a stub keel that sat very high on a single axle trailer w/ no brakes. I kept moving the weight forward till the propensity to sway was gone. Never had any issues with sway. Yes, it pulled hard as it felt like the sails were still up when you went down the road, but no sway.

It also should be noted that modern tow vehicles have anti-sway built into the braking system. The system has control over left right braking and mitigate sway.

I should also add that the best thing you can do to improve towing handling is get that stupid outboard off the back of the boat.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

You have no idea when you have experienced what I have over the years when it comes to trailers. Once pulling a Hunter 23 wing keel hit by a passing tractor trailer which veered in my lane hit the boat and trailer. Trailer had no brakes. Due to swaying violently due to swaying the boat came off the trailer passing me sliding past me on the right. The trailer caused my car to veer left into oncoming semi’s which missed me by 15 feet. It was a miracle I was not killed. When someone is referred to a model like above, there are so many mitigating factors that I never trusted models , so the outcome could be anything. The best advice on towing is to ask those who are experienced with knowledge. I talked to the boat haulers, those who pulled all types of boats, manufacturers and so forth. I am glad I did. One friend, Ron Frisosky, was instrumental and he not only pulled many sailboats, he designed them for Precision and Road King trailers as well as for Precision, Hunter, Catalina, and many other sailboats. He said forget the models as they do not address all the circumstances and so on. He and others would say the same thing and they taught me well

 

[Daveinet]

Dave, normally I would respect your opinion, but sorry, physics is physics. To suggest I have no idea is completely erroneous. You have no idea what I have towed, experienced, or studied. I did not suggest tongue weight was the only thing, but it is the primary thing. Sway is oscillation. Propensity to oscillate is always going to be based on the center of mass relative to the fulcrum. If you change the center of mass relative to the fulcrum, you change the oscillation.
It should be noted that the OP is talking about a fairly light boat - 2/3rds the weight of his tv. This is also a significant mitigating factor. There are several fulcrums at play, including the point at where the car is attached to the road. His car is a Beetle, which by design has the axles at the extreme ends of the mass, which will make it very difficult to oscillate.
BTY: I work in acoustics in materials. We design materials to resonate at given frequencies. We also design those materials to have mechanical gain in oscillation. This is done by relating mass density to the pivot point or as we call it, the null point. We also design things to not resonate.

 

[Rick Webb]

Models and theory are awesome. Right up to the point where the rubber hits the road. There are so many variables with the geometry between the tow vehicle and the trailer it would take a long time to work them all through. It's largely but not all about the center of mass. As you get closer to the edge the center of balance, effort, and a myriad of other factors start to come into play. Then you would need to factor in different conditions.

I have towed my Hunter 23.5 with my 1988 5.0 Mustang. Plenty of power nice big tires all the way around and not really a light car. It is a fine combination around town on flat streets at less than 35 mph. Not so much on other terrain and speeds. I could really feel it being pushed and was very close to feeling uncomfortable. I would not hesitate a 20 mile trip but would look for another alternative for a 200 mile trip.

That is where my suggestion comes in to test tow a similar sailboat before going too far down this rabbit hole. The Beetle with a #2000 25' long boat and trailer will be at the margins. In or out is going to be a short shift between the good and bad. I believe it may absolutely be doable. Our friend seems to be operating within some budgetary constraints and I am hoping to help avoid him getting the cart (boat) before the horse (beetle) and finding out you can't get there from here with this for now.

 

[Will Gilmore]

Sway is oscillation. Propensity to oscillate is always going to be based on the center of mass relative to the fulcrum.

Exactly so. This is a moderately complex driven oscillation system. The lever arms are numerous and the center of mass is shifting and the materials are a mix of rigid and flexible. The theoretical models are used to present a general concept from which to build an understanding and design. If the models are accurate, but the practice doesn't prove consistent, then at least one other factor is not being considered or accounted for. The physics is pretty well understood. It's just that there's a lot to consider. That's why we live by general rules of thumb for things like towing.

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[CharlieSea]

Buy a Hunter 23.5. Great boat: fast, roomy, well built, water ballast so easy to tow. Bought it in Michigan and towed it to Miami on the standard trailer with an Isuzu Trooper; towed great. 'Wish I hadn't sold it.

 

[Daveinet]

The model is scientifically sound. If one wants to add to the model, fine, but you can't discount the model itself or the principle on which it stands. It is the basis for every car or truck manual that covers towing.