What to do if you lose your rig.

[Hunter216]

I’ve been thinking about the mechanics of how to deal with various pieces of all of this but don’t have any real experience to draw on so this is all just arm chair - coffee drinking theory

I do think it might be useful to have a mental image of how to tackle various scenarios beforehand so you don’t find yourself having to do it “in the moment”.

In the case that you need to release a shroud or stay what are the choices:

The simple answer would seem to be just remove the “pin” that connects it to the boat, same way you would use to unstep your mast. This seems plausible to me as a good approach bearing in mind you don’t want to have your fingers or hands in a place of potential danger. The potential problems in a dismasting situation would be there is so much load on the “pin” you can’t budge it and/or the pin retention can’t be easily removed/accessed. (think bent over cotter pin)

That would drive the decision to cut the shroud/stay or unthread a turnbuckle taking safety and speed into account. Assuming you have a tool at hand that would cut the shroud/stay in one pass have at it in the most convenient position. If you only have a hacksaw and wire rigging I wonder if it would be more efficient to cut the threaded stud right where they exit the turnbuckle body rather than the cable itself???

 

[dlochner]

That would drive the decision to cut the shroud/stay or unthread a turnbuckle taking safety and speed into account. Assuming you have a tool at hand that would cut the shroud/stay in one pass have at it in the most convenient position. If you only have a hacksaw and wire rigging I wonder if it would be more efficient to cut the threaded stud right where they exit the turnbuckle body rather than the cable itself???

My thought is to cut the stud with a hacksaw or a bolt cutter. Turnbuckles are usually made of chrome plated bronze, they would cut with a bolt cutter or would be easier than cutting stainless.

 

[Hunter216]

My thought is to cut the stud with a hacksaw or a bolt cutter. Turnbuckles are usually made of chrome plated bronze, they would cut with a bolt cutter or would be easier than cutting stainless.

Good path of least resistance thinking, I didn’t consider cutting the turnbuckle

I’ve not had a boat equipped with closed body turnbuckles. I guess you should try to cut a closed body one, dead centre to eliminate the chance of the internal end of the stud hampering the process??

 

[dlochner]

I guess. I've never had closed body turnbuckles either. The open body ones would take 2 cuts one on each leg.

 

[Daveinet]

Wow. Can you post a video of you opening the knife (or any other folding tool)?

From the guy who only knows how to tie a square knot...

 

[dlochner]

From the guy who only knows how to tie a square knot...

I think we have a new nickname, "Quick Draw Dave".

Thanks for the video, I may just have to get me one them.

 

[Jackdaw]

From the guy who only knows how to tie a square knot...

WOW. Not sure how that would work cold, dark and afraid, but that's impressive.

I have that same tool. I keep it handy but its not my emergency knife.

 

[Daveinet]

A lot of that comes with use. It wasn't something I intentionally trained myself to do, but prior to getting a desk job, rarely a day would go by that I didn't use it for something. Just for grins, I tried it with my left hand. I was able to do it, but was a lot more fumbly. I think I'd be much more prone to drop it left handed on a boat.

I think we have a new nickname, "Quick Draw Dave".
Thanks for the video, I may just have to get me one them.

Complete with the OCD tap at the end.
I think if I were specifically trying to buy one for use on a boat, I would choose the version with Remgrit. (MP600 Pro Scout). The Remgrit will saw through anything. I've even cut through a 1x1 and it didn't take that long. The Carbide particles are very aggressive, but yet small enough to not get hung up when cutting through steal.

 

[sesmith]

We did dismast once on a previous boat (a Hunter 23.5) while sailing on Lake Champlain. We were heading up wind. The wind had been building and getting gusty. We were thinking about reefing after we got through a ferry crossing, when a gust hit, forestay broke and the mast came down. I jumped up as the jib came down and the mast knocked me into the lifeline as it came down. My wife was at the tiller, and somehow luckily leaned WAAY back as the mast just missed her head and hit the railing at the port corner of the stern. The railing kept it from hitting her lap.

We made sure we were both ok. I was able to pull the mast back up on deck as it hadn't completely gone off the back of the boat yet. I grabbed all the sails and held it all on deck as we motored in toward shore. The aforementioned ferry had come to a stop in it's tracks as we gathered everything up on deck. Had it not been for the ferry, we would have spent more time consolidating things, but between it and the 2' sea state, we just did the best we could. On our way in, we had to motor through a mooring field, so we could anchor on the other side. By this time, my wife was steering totally blind as the main found a way to cover her. I just called "right" and "left" and we got through unscathed. We anchored, got the sails stowed, the mast up on it's cradle, and had a beer.

The cause of the failure was poor rig inspection. My only excuse was that the fray on the forestay was hidden under the top of the CDI furler foil, so under casual observation, wouldn't be seen and was just an accident waiting to happen. The owner of a sail loft near Burlington, who fixed it, put a toggle above the furler to prevent this from happening again, as the toggle took the stress rather than the stay. He got us fixed up in a couple of days including the broken mast base casting (and doing some stitching repair on the sails). We've been doing long distance business with that same sail loft since, as he saved our vacation that year and made a customer for life. He's sold us a set of sails for our Seaward 25 a couple of years ago, and will get the business for new sails for our Catalina 350 in another year.

Had the same scenario happened on our Catalina 350, not sure what we would do. Much bigger rig. I do have the rig inspected by a professional, as I don't like high places. On the Seaward, I check it myself as the mast comes down often for trailering. This discussion has me thinking I should at least carry a hack saw with my other tools, as we're often far out from land on the Great Lakes with our Catalina.

 

[Daveinet]

You may want to get a Remgrit rod saw blade for your hacksaw. I don't know that a standard hacksaw blade will last very long cutting stainless. The rod blade will also let you cut on a funny angle if you don't have a lot of clearance.

 

[Jackdaw]

We did dismast once on a previous boat (a Hunter 23.5) while sailing on Lake Champlain. We were heading up wind. The wind had been building and getting gusty. We were thinking about reefing after we got through a ferry crossing, when a gust hit, forestay broke and the mast came down. I jumped up as the jib came down and the mast knocked me into the lifeline as it came down. My wife was at the tiller, and somehow luckily leaned WAAY back as the mast just missed her head and hit the railing at the port corner of the stern. The railing kept it from hitting her lap.

We made sure we were both ok. I was able to pull the mast back up on deck as it hadn't completely gone off the back of the boat yet. I grabbed all the sails and held it all on deck as we motored in toward shore. The aforementioned ferry had come to a stop in it's tracks as we gathered everything up on deck. Had it not been for the ferry, we would have spent more time consolidating things, but between it and the 2' sea state, we just did the best we could. On our way in, we had to motor through a mooring field, so we could anchor on the other side. By this time, my wife was steering totally blind as the main found a way to cover her. I just called "right" and "left" and we got through unscathed. We anchored, got the sails stowed, the mast up on it's cradle, and had a beer.

The cause of the failure was poor rig inspection. My only excuse was that the fray on the forestay was hidden under the top of the CDI furler foil, so under casual observation, wouldn't be seen and was just an accident waiting to happen. The owner of a sail loft near Burlington, who fixed it, put a toggle above the furler to prevent this from happening again, as the toggle took the stress rather than the stay. He got us fixed up in a couple of days including the broken mast base casting (and doing some stitching repair on the sails). We've been doing long distance business with that same sail loft since, as he saved our vacation that year and made a customer for life. He's sold us a set of sails for our Seaward 25 a couple of years ago, and will get the business for new sails for our Catalina 350 in another year.

Had the same scenario happened on our Catalina 350, not sure what we would do. Much bigger rig. I do have the rig inspected by a professional, as I don't like high places. On the Seaward, I check it myself as the mast comes down often for trailering. This discussion has me thinking I should at least carry a hack saw with my other tools, as we're often far out from land on the Great Lakes with our Catalina.

Good job coming through that OK!

if there was not a toggle up there, blame the original rigger for your failure. This is a MUST HAVE with a furler... sadly its known that Hunter often didn't install them with factory CDI furlers.

 

[Hunter216]

As I continue to ponder this I found myself thinking about what to do if the mast fails where a significant portion of the mast remains vertical.

I could see this happening if the mast is keel stepped and the lower shrouds were intact. This would leave a “stub” higher than your ability to reach.

I think dealing with the foresail would likely be similar to the scenario where the entire rig came down so I’m not focused on that.

The issue would be how to get the main sail and boom under control.

If you depend on a topping lift and the top section of mast is now bent or sheared off the boom is no longer supported and would either be in the cockpit or overboard with a potential of flailing around. I think my priority would be to get the foot of the mainsail off the boom. This would also help depower the main to a certain extent.

My dilemma is how to wrestle the main under some semblance of control. You can’t lower it, you can’t reach high enough to cut it all off, battens hinder getting it lashed tightly to the mast. Kinda stumped on this part. Any ideas?

 

[shemandr]

Note that in sesmoth’s account, removing (Formerly) standing rigging either by cutting the wire or other means wasn’t mentioned. And in the case in which I was on an Ensign that lost its mast in a Port/Starboard incident, I don’t remember removing the standing rigging. I think cutting the standing rigging is down the list a bit. First is assessing injuries. Then securing the broken mast top since the mast often folds. The lower shrouds may be holding the standing part of the mast up. Then I would work on removing the sails and boom and clear the cockpit. Then reel in the gear in the water.
Removing the boom at the gooseneck and the mainsail from the boom will allow you to gather the main near the remaining mast. Removing the main from the mast will be time consuming and arduous.
Cutting the rigging away seems like an action appropriate if there are waves and the mast is over board and in danger of holing the hull. That seems to me to be the least likely scenario.

 

[Daveinet]

As I continue to ponder this I found myself thinking about what to do if the mast fails where a significant portion of the mast remains vertical.
....
My dilemma is how to wrestle the main under some semblance of control. You can’t lower it, you can’t reach high enough to cut it all off, battens hinder getting it lashed tightly to the mast. Kinda stumped on this part. Any ideas?

If only the top section of mast breaks, that may mean that no part of the rig is in the water. If that is the case, tie off any loose lines and motor into the wind. If you are unsure of motoring, drop anchor off the bow, which should eventually swing you into the wind. That should at least get everything want to to blow into the cockpit, rather than overboard. Pointing into the wind seems like you'd be less likely to have the rig punch a hole in the side of the boat. bundle up the mess as much as possible. Assuming you have a telescoping dock hook, you may be able to use that to work the sail upward out of the mast.

 

[Hunter216]

Assuming you have a telescoping dock hook, you may be able to use that to work the sail upward out of the mast.

We are thinking along the same lines but I’m having trouble visualizing this part as I don’t get the “upward” direction???

Dock hook extending your reach certainly sounds like it would have value. I had thought of somehow attaching a knife to the pole tip to allow you to cut things from a greater and possibly safer distance but that in itself might be kinda dicey

 

[jmce1587]

I’ve thought about this event.

1. 
   
2. once all lines and rigging is secure on board then start motor and begin to power home. Call CG and issue a pan pan . Give condition of people and a list of who is aboard. ALL IN LIFE JACKEST. Identify the plan and expected ETA. Be sure to check in with CG when you are safely returned to port.

That’s my plan for the worst case issue.

As far as calling CG, please keep in mind if the mast is down and in my case submerged about 40' then your VHF antenna is at the top of the mast and now underwater your broadcast capabilities are nil or extremely limited. We carry a handheld but the broadcast range is about 4-5 miles on a good day. We were 28 miles offshore and would have had to hope vessels in area would provide assistance in relaying a message to CG. Its important to have a good handheld onboard, especially when venturing offshore.

 

[Daveinet]

We are thinking along the same lines but I’m having trouble visualizing this part as I don’t get the “upward” direction???

I'm making an assumption that you can't pull the sail down, because there would be no way to feed it into the slot at the break point. So, if you release the sail from the boom, you should be able pull the sail up the slot and out at the break point. If you have slugs, even better, as the dock hook and slip under the slugs and raise it up.

OK, so now I'm re-visualizing this. If you have slugs, you don't need to feed them down the slot. Just lower the sail and let them hang free. If your bolt rope fits in the slot, then you have to lift the sail out the top at the break point.

I'll mention one other thing. If you have stays still attached to the spreaders, just pull down on them. The spreaders will snap. Aluminum doesn't bend very far before it snaps. I have a mast that is snapped off clean in 2 places, due to being attacked by a tree.

 

[dLj]

I'm skeptical the track for the slugs would be open enough for the above scenario. No first hand knowledge, but doesn't seem likely.

dj

 

[Hunter216]

I'm making an assumption that you can't pull the sail down, because there would be no way to feed it into the slot at the break point. So, if you release the sail from the boom, you should be able pull the sail up the slot and out at the break point. If you have slugs, even better, as the dock hook and slip under the slugs and raise it up.

OK, so now I'm re-visualizing this. If you have slugs, you don't need to feed them down the slot. Just lower the sail and let them hang free. If your bolt rope fits in the slot, then you have to lift the sail out the top at the break point.

I'll mention one other thing. If you have stays still attached to the spreaders, just pull down on them. The spreaders will snap. Aluminum doesn't bend very far before it snaps. I have a mast that is snapped off clean in 2 places, due to being attacked by a tree.

My scenario has the mainsail up and one or
more of the upper supports failing with the lowers intact. The mast section above the lower shrouds either bends over or shears off completely.

The mainsail now can’t be raised or lowered as there is no “slack” in the system. That leaves the main flogging in a haphazard manner as the sail would be catching the wind in different ways.

The top section could likely be pulled into line with the mast stub by using a halyard. As the halyard exits the top of the mast you could apply force to the end for maximum effect.

Your idea of working the sail slugs or bolt rope out of the top of the “new” mast top might work if the mast was sheared off and the groove the slugs or bolt rope slides in wasn’t deformed. That might get the lower area of the main into a more manageable state

My only other thought so far would be to use a halyard or some spare line to barber pole wrap the entire mess as tightly as you can.

With spare line you could fashion a constrictor type loop around an area, push it up as high as you could reach with the dock pole and then cinch it tight. Repeat until you have enough “sail ties” to get underway effectively

 

[Hunter216]

I’m sure that this Selden guide

Rigging instructions & sailmakers guide : Seldén Mast AB

www.seldenmast.com

has been referenced before but there is one section that has altered my thinking about off season mast storage

I have never considered the impact of having the stainless wire rigging being in contact with my aluminum mast. I’m not positive but I recall seeing many masts on racks at marinas with rigging still attached so I’m not sure how much of a risk this is.