Volvo reverse bow: coming to a boat near you?

[Jackdaw]

That's why the reverse bow will begin to replace the plumb bow. It will be a progression to one-design racing, which most racing-oriented boat owners tend to prefer anyway, I think. It will be seen as a break-away from the design shackles of ORR and IRC. They have little regard for anchoring and sun-tanning. The bowman will have to cope with smaller deck area as the sacrifice for speed.

The traditional bow will survive for your reasons stated.

Scott,

On a monohull, the reverse bow has NO advatage vis-a-vis a plumb bow. The designer of the VOR65 has stated such himself. It was in fact done for 'visual' reasons.

It works on light narrow cats, which also have no forestay that wants to be as far forward as possible

The advantages of plumb bows on monohulls are very well understood. I'm not sure that you mean by the 'shackles' of ORR design rules, if anything modern racing rules promote a very 'open' design where fast design elements are allowed on boats without being penalized or have their advantage hidden. This for sure was NOT true in the past. Fast raceboats (and cruisers that mimic them) now are therefore MUCH faster then their older contemporaries for that reason.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

So then, it would seem, that you are saying that it will not be replacing a plumb bow based on the merit of performance. If that's the case, I would assume that it won't be seen on production boats. It's certainly not going to replace a traditional bow, due to the aesthetics and utility advantage of the traditional bow.

So, who would be interested? I assume that there must be some performance advantage, otherwise, why would the designers construct it merely for visual appeal? If there is no advantage, who will be in the market to buy?

I probably stated my case about the ORR and IRC rules in the wrong way. I agree, that games were played in the past, generating boat designs that had a multitude of variables which the rules have attempted (probably successfully) to eliminate via the precedence given to "fast" design. Under the rules, are manufacturers now turning out race-oriented boats which are nearly identical regardless of the manufacturer? Isn't that more like a progression to one-design? All boats, will have the same bow, virtually the same hull-form and dimensions, based on the rules.

 

[Jackdaw]

So then, it would seem, that you are saying that it will not be replacing a plumb bow based on the merit of performance. If that's the case, I would assume that it won't be seen on production boats. It's certainly not going to replace a traditional bow, due to the aesthetics and utility advantage of the traditional bow.

So, who would be interested? I assume that there must be some performance advantage, otherwise, why would the designers construct it merely for visual appeal? If there is no advantage, who will be in the market to buy?

I probably stated my case about the ORR and IRC rules in the wrong way. I agree, that games were played in the past, generating boat designs that had a multitude of variables which the rules have attempted (probably successfully) to eliminate via the precedence given to "fast" design. Under the rules, are manufacturers now turning out race-oriented boats which are nearly identical regardless of the manufacturer? Isn't that more like a progression to one-design? All boats, will have the same bow, virtually the same hull-form and dimensions, based on the rules.

Scott, Nice reply!!! ;^)

Re the reverse bow on production boats, you are correct; I personally do not expect to see them. There is no advantage, and any 'cosmetic gain' will be canceled out by the difficulty in anchoring. Maybe a VERY SLIGHT amount for visual effect as others have said. We MIGHT see them on pure race boats however, for that aforementioned reason.

The designer said he wanted the visual cue of the AC70 boats, for general public viewing. Remember that the VOR has committed to the VOR65 design; it will be around for 6-9 years unchanged. Call it a hedge.

I agree, modern rules tend to typeform boats into a certain 'look'. Most 35-36 foot IRC racer/cruisers look like our 36.7. If they are a pure raceboat and can lose the furniture, they look like a Jeanneau SunFast 3600. Is that a bad thing? In some ways maybe. But we are a 60sec/mile faster than an older IOR-factored Beneteau First of the same length. That's better.

Most of the 'differences' in design in the old boats were attempts to bend the rules. Bow and transom overhang, tumblehome, huge genoas, mizzen sails, etc all attempts to bend a rule. But they were not fast per se, and made the racing often unfair. Now we are at least moving to were boats are fast, safe, rated fairly and hopefully good looking!

 

[Maine Sail]

Here is a photo of DDG 1000 getting fitted out in Bath, Maine.
I think the idea is that the bow cuts through the waves rather than riding over them, making for a smoother but wetter ride. I am not convinced, if it was that good an idea, all boats would have this bow.
You would need a really big bowsprit to safely handle the anchor.

Part of that design is also to make it "stealth" to radar...

 

[rajhnsn]

I would think that it helps that the VOR's have a for and aft water ballast system. They are able to raise the bow in tall waves to keep the bow from digging in.

 

[pupluv]

Reverse bows were briefly popular on warships in the mid-1800's because armor was thought to be superior to ship's guns. At least one ship was sunk by ramming in Italian-Austrian War (1866). There was a brief revival in the early 1900's - - you may recall that a Royal Navy ram destroyed a Martian war machine in War of the Worlds.

 

[finding41]

I like it better than the scow bow.

 

[Gunni]

Yeah, well that particular little scow won a trans-atlantic race and left the competition in the mists. So the ocean scow design has proven function.

 

[drazlou]

Didn't the AC72's have bows like this? I always thought going as fast as they did that the bow would hit a wave and turn into a submarine.

 

[Daveinet]

Didn't the AC72's have bows like this? I always thought going as fast as they did that the bow would hit a wave and turn into a submarine.

That is exactly why it is done. If it had a flat top, it would bury its self. Being narrow on top, it sheds the water, and pops right back up. Several of us were chatting with Ian Farrier about this in light of a different brand of trimaran that flipped out in the ocean. In that context he was discussing the design of the amas, as well as catamaran pontoon designs. One is trying to get a lot of buoyancy up front, but also be able to shed the water if it goes under.

 

[NotCook]

UGLY (you ain't got no alibi!)

The wave piercing hulls are increasingly popular on the performance cats (Gunboat, Balance) but then they are not concerned by the difficulty of deploying an anchor off the bow...

Excellent observation.

Personally, I like the traditionally shaped boats (not a Wally fan). I think this one is ugly.

 

[Gunni]

Didn't the AC72's have bows like this? I always thought going as fast as they did that the bow would hit a wave and turn into a submarine.

And Team Emirates did just that during the Louis Vuitton against Prada. You might remember they lost 3 crew members when they came off their foil, stuffed the bow, and finished the race short-handed. 25kts to 0 kts in 30 feet! Although in fairness just about every serious Hobie16 sailor has a similar experience to tell, and the Hobie16 has a radically rockered, overhanging bow. On a traditional cat the crew need to carefully control hull loading to keep the hull on the surface and match wave state.

 

[CloudDiver]

Jackdraw already mentioned the issue with the forestay, but also, wouldn't that bow design cause issues with function of other hardware like anchor deployment?

 

[Gunni]

You bet these trendy bow designs mess with your ability to anchor the boat without damage. And usable bow anchor rollers are so 2001! But look, the crash plate makes it all good, right? This is a $1/2 million dollar cruising sailboat.

 

[kingsailor]

Remember the Edsel.

 

[Joe]

Here's some fun stuff... A Nacra F20 showing the wave piercing bow design at work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bl9i2J9IeTE&feature=player_detailpage#t=290


Essentially, the design allows the bow to pop back up when it starts to pearl.. there's more hull under than above so it won't be spooned and driven further into the water by boat speed.

 

[gettinthere]

This reverse bow allows a LOT of green water over the foredeck. What they really need is little paddlewheels on deck to generate electricity for the electronics. Really trendy green thinking.

 

[Chris Patterson]

Ever see these kiddie cars that have all these Auto Shack wings and spoilers on their cars? At speeds less than eighty mph, they are useless. (Actually, aerodynamically speaking, this junk is useless at ANY speed). But that's about the size of it. Of course it works good on a go-faster, but generally? Do you run Goodyear slicks on a passenger car? How about a thousand horsepower motor to go get groceries? I don't see 'em as bad, I rather like the looks at a traditional plumb bow, but don't get me wrong, I wouldn't have it..

 

[walt]

The new Hobie AI and TI's have a slight reverse bow. I have had the old AI since 2010 and the one benefit I can relate to is more volume/floatation forward. Longer water line... these already spend a lot of time exceeding the theoretical hull speed so how much does that really matter. No bow anchor to worry about on these..

Wet ride.. is that caused by a boat just hauling axxx or by the bow shape..

Photo is linked to from the Hobie web site. I have a 2015 TI on order..(and think the reverse bow is about 3/4 marketing.. but also think it looks cool so am OK with that)

 

[Daveinet]

Here's some fun stuff... A Nacra F20 showing the wave piercing bow design at work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bl9i2J9IeTE&feature=player_detailpage#t=290


Essentially, the design allows the bow to pop back up when it starts to pearl.. there's more hull under than above so it won't be spooned and driven further into the water by boat speed.

yes, that is basically what Ian was talking about. Although in the case of the F20, their biggest concern would be the trampoline. Knowing from experience with my Hobie, putting a pontoon under a wave is no big deal, but as soon as much water breaks over the trampoline, that will make it pitchpole pretty quick. Long waves or wind load, it works fine, but short chop doesn't have enough lift fast enough and you can easily flip.