Stuffing box- dumb question?

[Anchor Lady]

My beloved sailboat forum,

Time to point me in the right direction one more time:

Below is a picture of my stuffing box for my 1980 Oday 30. Always left a small pool of water in the engine room. Now when I touch the rubber portion, water sprays. If I engage the transmission, no leaks, only when I touch the rubber on the attachment. So I’m sure it needs some maintenance, new seals, or something. Two dumb questions:

Can I work on the stuffing box while the boat is in the water or will I have a major leak at the dock?

Where do I start with the maintenance? Are there kits I should order for a 1980 Oday 30?

Thanks for your help as always

Jim

 

[JamesG161]

That is not a Stuffing Box.

It is an older version of one of these.
PYI Inc. | PSS Shaft Seal

________

Can I work on the stuffing box while the boat is in the water

No!

It looks like you have a mis-aligned shaft too.

Jim....

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

I don't even see how this is possible, but there it is :

The misalignment of your prop shaft and transmission is so bad, I don't see how the two can rotate without flying apart.

You have a major problem with your mechanical seal and alignment and you're obviously not familiar enough with this part of your boat to attempt any repairs on it. This is not a problem as we all had to learn early on in the game.

I would suggest not running the boat again under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES and to immediately bring in a licensed mechanic to repair the problems. Don't hesitate to ask to see a license as any loose dock rat will be able to screw this up enough to sink your boat in a heartbeat.

 

[ggrizzard]

Not to pile on but...
The repair will require a haul out. Then, if you are of a mind to learn
what steps to take to repair the problem, hire an experienced
mechanic who is willing to give you some options. There are two or three
that come to mind.
If someone says "You must do (fill in the blank) and only this",
find someone who will give you options.

 

[dlochner]

As others have noted, you have a PSS Shaft Seal. PYI recommends changing the bellows, the black rubber part, every 6 or 7 years to prevent its failure. This is probably over due. In order to replace the bellows, it is necessary to detach the shaft and coupler from the transmission. This can not be done in the water, the boat will flood.

The shaft is way out of alignment which is a separate problem. Check your motor mounts as one or more might have broken. The misalignment can cause the shaft seal to leak, which may be the cause of the water you find beneath it. More important is finding the cause of the misalignment and correcting it. Also check for damage on the strut and shaft.

Consider replacing the entire shaft seal instead of just the bellows. The cost difference is minimal. The old style seal required the seal to be burped at launch otherwise air would get trapped in the bellows preventing water from entering and cooling the seal. This can lead to deterioration of the seal. Burping can also damage the graphite bearing at the end of the seal. Some people use a screwdriver to pry the bellows back to burp it scratching the graphite disk. The new version of the Shaft Seal has a vent which allows the air to escape. See the link below for more information.

So, get the boat hauled and get the shaft issues straightened out and replace the Shaft Seal before any more damage occurs to the drive train.

Sorry for the bad news.

PSS Seal

The PSS Shaft Seal is the number one selling marine mechanical seal worldwide and is installed as standard equipment by many of the worlds most reputable boat builders / yards.

www.shaftseal.com

 

[jssailem]

Below is a picture of my stuffing box for my 1980 Oday 30.

1. Always left a small pool of water in the engine room. Now when I touch the rubber portion, water sprays. If I engage the transmission, no leaks, only when I touch the rubber on the attachment. So I’m sure it needs some maintenance, new seals, or something.
2. Can I work on the stuffing box while the boat is in the water or will I have a major leak at the dock?
3. Where do I start with the maintenance?
4. Are there kits I should order for a 1980 Oday 30?

Hello Jim... When you first joined SBO you indicated: "New to the sailing world". Is 2019 when you acquired your Oday 30?

Did you install the PYI Dripless Seal to your shaft log or was it done prior to your acquisition?

@dlochner suggests it is "Probably" over due. If done in 2019 and just occasional use, perhaps replacment of the bellows is not needed. It would be dependent on inspection of the bellows. If they appear to be worn and cracking then definitely look to replacement. If they are sound then biannual inspection maybe warranted. The 6-7 year guidance does come from the manufacturer for the bellows shown in your image.

I would question where is the water coming from? If it is the rubber cracked and leaking then yes replacment is warranted. If it is from the prop end of the bellows then you may need to tighten the bands. If it is the graphite/steel seal then that could be normal and just following the cleaning of the seal may be the solution.

Your question #2. In water solution. This is not advised if you have major corrections to be made. The risk of sinking the boat is greater than most owners are ready to address. If it is just cleaning dirt between the seal (the graphite steel interface) then in the water is ok. Anything else I would be hauling the boat. You might be able to accomplish the repairs in say a couple of hours. In that case a short haul may be the ticket. They haul you and let you hang in the slings till fixed, usually over night. You're the last boat out in the evening and the first to drop back in in the AM.

Continued. #2. @Ralph Johnstone Provides a great graphic. It looks like your Transmission to Shaft alignment is not to spec. While the PYI Dripless seal is forgiving, a misaligned shaft will prematurely wear the parts on the Dripless Seal, causing them to drip. I would address this with the boat out of the water. I would check the wear on the graphite seal face. It may need to be replaced. Based upon inspection, I would contact PYI with what is observed and get their advice.

#3. You start with maintenance by defining - clarifying the issue. Decide on the path you want to take. Acquire any skills, tools, or parts that are needed. Then schedule the work.

#4. PYI does make a kit. It is not boat based. It is engine, prop shaft size and transmission based. Being this is new to you, I would encourage you hire a competent boat worker or yard to do the work. I would suggest you watch and learn what they do. Then in the future you will be better prepared to do more of the work yourself.

PYI Inc. | PSS Shaft Seal

The PSS Shaft Seal is a mechanical seal and is installed as standard equipment by many of the worlds most reputable boat builders and yards. Find out everything you need about the PSS Shaft Seal here.

www.shaftseal.com

Good luck. Sounds like you did a good job recognizing you may have a problem. That is the first step to a solution.

NOTE: These are my opinions and not that of management or moderators....

 

[Davidasailor26]

I don't even see how this is possible, but there it is :

View attachment 215656

The misalignment of your prop shaft and transmission is so bad, I don't see how the two can rotate without flying apart.

You have a major problem with your mechanical seal and alignment and you're obviously not familiar enough with this part of your boat to attempt any repairs on it. This is not a problem as we all had to learn early on in the game.

I would suggest not running the boat again under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES and to immediately bring in a licensed mechanic to repair the problems. Don't hesitate to ask to see a license as any loose dock rat will be able to screw this up enough to sink your boat in a heartbeat.

There definitely is misalignment, but the left side of the picture is the shaft log, not necessarily the prop shaft axis. The prop shaft runs continuously from off the right of the frame all the way through the PSS, out the log, and through the cutless. The log has tolerance for quite a bit of misalignment (as we're seeing). What's more important is the alignment of the shaft through the cutless and into the transmission coupling, which we can't really see from the picture (though the misalignment with the log is not a good sign).

 

[dlochner]

There definitely is misalignment, but the left side of the picture is the shaft log, not necessarily the prop shaft axis. The prop shaft runs continuously from off the right of the frame all the way through the PSS, out the log, and through the cutless. The log has tolerance for quite a bit of misalignment (as we're seeing). What's more important is the alignment of the shaft through the cutless and into the transmission coupling, which we can't really see from the picture (though the misalignment with the log is not a good sign).

I've had a PSS for 20 years, the bellows should be straight, there should not be a bend in it. The log probably has a diameter of about twice that of the prop shaft, so there is lots of wiggle room. The bellows is flexible to accommodate some miss alignment between the shaft log and the line between the center of the strut and the center of the transmission, however, this amount of bend is pretty extreme. The cutless bearing may also be worn which would allow more play in the shaft alignment.

The bend in the bellows is problematic beyond being an indicator of the shaft misalignment. It is being stressed in a way that is inconsistent with its design. The bellows serves 2 functions, keeping the water out and providing compression for the mating surfaces of the graphite bearing and the SS collar. Because of the angles, some parts of the bellows are in tension when they should be in compression. I would suspect this has a weakening effect on the bellows and could accelerate the normal decay of the material. Regardless, because it is of unknown age and it is installed incorrectly, it begs for replacement.

 

[Tally Ho]

That looks really off-line for some reason.

If it was me, I would haul the boat, remove the coupling and the PSS so you can see the shaft in the shaft log. It should be centered in the middle of the stern tube.

I switched to a Volvo Penta dripless shaft seal, replacing an old-school stuffing box. I really like the VP seal…super simple, no moving parts, robust rubber seal. I am on my second year with it.

Greg

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

it begs for replacement.

That's about the most descriptive phrase you could apply to the seal .

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

What's more important is the alignment of the shaft through the cutless and into the transmission coupling, which we can't really see from the picture (though the misalignment with the log is not a good sign).

Of course the prop shaft can't possibly make a bend like that in it's travel up to the prop shaft/Xmission coupling as it's one continuous, solid piece of shaft.

Buuuuuuuuuuut, on the other hand, how can the shaft travel through the shaft log at that crazy angle and not wear through the side of the log shaft and into the FG hull ? It was about that time I went cross eyed and any further ideas I may have had evaporated. What the hell happened back there we may never know ? Remember, the strut, cutlass bearing, shaft log and shaft were installed first. The engine came second and had to line up to this pre-existing mess. Unless "something" happened somewhere down the road.

Rather than an experienced mechanic, perhaps what the OP needs is a sorcerer to explain what happened here.

 

[Davidasailor26]

Of course the prop shaft can't possibly make a bend like that in it's travel up to the prop shaft/Xmission coupling as it's one continuous, solid piece of shaft.

Buuuuuuuuuuut, on the other hand, how can the shaft travel through the shaft log at that crazy angle and not wear through the side of the log shaft and into the FG hull ? It was about that time I went cross eyed and any further ideas I may have had evaporated. What the hell happened back there we may never know ? Remember, the strut, cutlass bearing, shaft log and shaft were installed first. The engine came second and had to line up to this pre-existing mess. Unless "something" happened somewhere down the road.

Rather than an experienced mechanic, perhaps what the OP needs is a sorcerer to explain what happened here.

Yes, I agree, definitely something wonky and in need of further insertion. @dlochner also made a very good point that the misalignment could be putting the bellows in some kind of tension, which could be part of the problem too. In any case I don’t see any way out other than a haul out to check/fix it all.

 

[NYSail]

If you are touching the “rubber” part and water comes in you are close to a catastrophic failure of the bellow. Time to haul out and address. I second the volvo shaft seal. It’s simple and dripless……. Will never have anything else. Jmo

Greg

 

[TimFromLI]

After the repair, there may be some initial spray until the new seal seats but there should never be any water under the seal after that

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Unfortunately, given the lack of response from the OP, it appears that their boat has sunk from a ruptured seal with them on it.

 

[ggrizzard]

The OP's post was a test of the Emergency Boat Saving System.
If this had been a real emergency, the OP's vessel would have been listed
by now in the CG NOTAMs as a hazard to navigation!

 

[dlochner]

It may be helpful when responding to a thread started sometime ago to include the OPs member name in your response. Doing this should send an email indicating that someone has mentioned their name and serve as a gentle reminder to check back in for any responses that might have been missed.

It is possible for anyone to see the last time a member logged on by clicking on the screen name. This will bring up the member's profile and it will state when the member was last seen.

@Anchor Lady was last seen on Sunday, May 21, so it might be safe to assume the responses were read. It would be helpful to learn how the problem was solved or not solved.

 

[Hollyberry]

Kinda drives me nuts when someone posts a question, gets tons of solid advice but never comes back to acknowledge it or follow up....

 

[MikeHoncho]

Kinda drives me nuts when someone posts a question, gets tons of solid advice but never comes back to acknowledge it or follow up....

I don't know....I think its better than coming back after asking a question and then telling everyone they are wrong because they don't like the answer.....

 

[Hollyberry]

I don't know....I think its better than coming back after asking a question and then telling everyone they are wrong because they don't like the answer.....

True... that happens too...