Sanitation Hose

[Suncatcher]

i just acquired a 1982 Hughes Columbia 8.7. Love the boat but it has odour issues. (Yes I've read Peggy's book.) My problem is with the route that the sanitation hose takes from the head to the holding tank. It goes from the head, right through the side of the sink cabinet...then winds up and back (left), then out of the cabinet only to return again farther up and out the bulkhead to the holding tank (red path). Is there any reason for this winding back? Can I just route it through the cabinet then up and through the bulkhead (green path)?
(In the photo you can also see the pump-out hose passing through the bulkhead and through the cabinet which may make the photo a bit confusing)

 

[bawlmer]

The only possible reason I can think of for the twists was the installer was trying to honor some sort of minimum bend radius rule. But it still makes no sense to me. I would replace it and run it directly. Also the ribbed hose you have does not look like the stuff you are supposed to use for sanitation hose. I'll bet replacing all of those hoses with Trident 101 or 102 will solve most if not all of your problem. It did from me. There are also folks much smarter than I on this subject and I am sure more wisdom will follow.

 

[dlochner]

When the hoses are routed there are 2 main considerations.

First make sure that any right angle turns are gentle and sweep. A sweep will have a larger radius than an el. If you go to a Big Box store and look in the plumbing department you will see the difference. A 90* sweep elbow will not impede fluid flow as much as a 90* elbow.

Second issue is making sure that there are no sags or low spots in the hose. This is were effluent can collect and eventually permeate the hose causing odor. Best to route the hose as high as it needs to go as close to the head as you can with a downhill run to the holding tank.

It will also be necessary to provide adequate support for the hose or a sag will develop and you really don't want that.

Finally, consider upgrading to a Raritan PHII.

 

[Suncatcher]

The only thing I can think of is that their is a vented loop where the hose disappears. I'd have to dismantle a cupboard to check.

 

[dlochner]

If there is a vented loop, it should be between the Y valve and the through hull. If that is the case, it is not necessary since overboard discharge is not legal on the Great Lakes.

What is the hose at the bottom of the photo?

 

[Suncatcher]

Hose is this photo is the pump out hose.

 

[Suncatcher]

Why does the manual show a vented loop with a holding tank?

 

[dlochner]

I'm a little confused. Where is the holding tank?

The manual image didn't come through.

Also, what is in that metal junction box? Those are generally not a good idea on boats, especially if the wire is household romex, i.e., solid wire and not stranded wire.

 

[SirMichael]

For what it's worth, I just changed the sanitation hoses on my 88' 28.5 last Friday with Trident 101 hose. I cut it with a hack saw and then cut the wire with a diamond edged blade on a dremel rotary tool. I used a bit of mild soap on the inside of the hose ends and they slipped right on. It is stiff hose, but from what I can see of your installation, you should be able to make the "shorter option" turns OK.

 

[Suncatcher]

Yes that's exactly what I was hoping...that I could use the better quality hose which is stiffer but would only work with the altered path of the hose. Thx

 

[Ron20324]

Yeah, it looks weird going in and out of the cabinet. Are you sure there is not some other (Y) valve inside that cabinet?

 

[thinwater]

Actually, Raritan Saniflex is far more flexible than other sanitation hoses. The bend radius is about 7-8 inches. Very durable. Also slightly smaller in OD. I installed some 5 years ago, still good.
https://www.practical-sailor.com/is...ght-Against-Head-Odors-Continues_11276-1.html

 

[Suncatcher]

No Im unsure about what's going on when the hose disappears to the left. I'll look further. Thx

 

[dlochner]

It may just be a simple loop to prevent holding tank contents from flowing back into the head when the boat heels. Time to open up the cabinet to see what's there.

 

[Suncatcher]

My job for today!

 

[hewebb]

I just installed a new head and used flexible PVC. Somewhere I read that it was good for sanitation hose. Our RV has PVC so I was thinking that is OK. Sure hope I did not make a mistake.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Y'all have already said just about everything I'd say, but I do have a couple of comments and questions, starting with:
Who installed this system???
Why does the pumpout hose come all the way back to the head (can't tell where it goes from there)? It should go straight up (at least as straight as possible) to the deck pumpout.
The route TO the tank should go up immediately after the toilet and then to to the tank.
If both of those are impossible, is there any chance you can relocate the tank, even if it has to mean replacing it?

Trident 101/102 sanitation hose is an excellent choice UNLESS there are more than a couple of bends in the route that are tighter the hose wants to bend willingly...'cuz it's so stiff that you'd have to cut it and install inline radius fittings. Raritan SaniFlex hose is proving to be equally as resistant to odor permeation as 101/102, and has the added advantage of being so flexible it can bend as tight as a hairpin without kinking.

just installed a new head and used flexible PVC. Somewhere I read that it was good for sanitation hose. Our RV has PVC so I was thinking that is OK. Sure hope I did not make a mistake.

You're not gonna like my answer....
Boats aren't RVs...RV tanks hang outside under the coach and most RV toilets are "direct drop" into the tank--but any hose from one that isn't is outside under the coach too...so there isn't any sanitation plumbing inside the coach, nor any holes in the floor that are under water. You can get away with almost any hose on an RV. But the entire sanitation system on a boat is INSIDE the boat, with hoses going to the tank and from it to a pumpout fitting and/or plumbing to dump the tank at sea.

Flex pvc #148, which is available from marine stores, is the least expensive sanitation hose...ok for tank vent lines and toilet intake lines, but not the best choice for toilet and tank discharge because it can permeate with odor very quickly...or not. It had been on one of my own boats for 7 years without a trace of odor when I sold the boat...on the next boat it permeated in less than 90 days (took me another month to find the source of the odor 'cuz I couldn't believe it could be brand new hose and so I refused to test the hose for it). So if that's what you used, you may or may not get lucky.

But if you went with spa hose from a big box hardware store, you made a big mistake 'cuz although it may look exactly like #148, it's not the same hose. Not only will it start to stink very quickly because it's WATER hose, not rated to carry carry sewage...nor is it rated for use on below-waterline connections--iow, any tank overboard discharge plumbing.

Sanitation hose is one thing on a boat where it doesn't pay to go cheap....Trident 101/102 and Raritan SaniFlex are a lot more expensive than flex pvc, but worth the price if you only want to have to do that miserable job once.

 

[Suncatcher]

The 1982 boat is new to me...who knows who installed what where

The pump out is next to the head. I'm thinking that the pump out hose was easier hidden behind the cabinet (than going up at the V-berth where the holding tank is) then goes up to the deck from there.
I'll, hopefully, soon find out as I'm trying to take the cabinet apart...was also hoping just to take out screws but have to find my heat gun for the glued shelves!
PS: found your book very useful.

 

[Suncatcher]

I was successful with removing the cabinet. I found that the toilet-to-holding tank hose did go up behind the cabinet with a vent loop, which was attached to the holding tank vent hose, then descended going back through the cabinet, through the sink cabinet, through the bulkhead to the holding tank. The photos also show the pump out hose.

Do I need to copy this path or just can I just have the hose go from the toilet directly to the holding tank?

 

[dlochner]

On the Sabre 30 I used to own, there was an unvented loop in the hose between the head and holding tank. When I replaced the hose and rerouted the inlet, I did not put the loop in nor add a vented loop. The inlet was located in a position that would minimize the chances of waste flowing back into the hose when heeled.

There were no issues that I found with this arrangement. The key is to limit the chances of the waste flowing back into the hose and then siphoning into the head. The vented loop breaks the siphon. Depending on your boat this may or may not be an option. The advantage to the shorter hose is less water is necessary to flush.