reported sailboat manufacturing plant closures??

David in Sandusky · Mar 20, 2016

Here is a picture posted by a new owner in Facebook showing his new Hunter being built a couple of weeks ago...

Phil Herring · Mar 20, 2016

We also heard that IP is closed. Marlow-Hunter is most definitely open, though.

Sailm8 · Mar 21, 2016

I toured the Catalina plant last month and they were building boats. They were also building cats for Gemini. They did say they were only building on orders. No spec boats.

Jackdaw · Mar 21, 2016

Phil Herring said:
We also heard that IP is closed. Marlow-Hunter is most definitely open, though.

Kinda like Buick, IP was building decent boats for a dying group of customers. Even the group for used IPs was dying off. That was inevitable.

I think Hunter is in good hands with MH. They have the backing and the business savvy to support the brand. The downside is that they will look at business with a very logical calculated eye. It it ever stops making sense......

woodster · Mar 21, 2016

it is sad that manufactures have to close due to lack of sales flow....there are things made in this country that require volume to produce economically even though they started with only the one original idea...they are victims of their success ....it's a shame they can't just throttle back ...but then that would make them a hand built item and run the cost up so high that it would still be only wealthy man's toy

Jackdaw · Mar 21, 2016

woodster said:
it is sad that manufactures have to close due to lack of sales flow....there are things made in this country that require volume to produce economically even though they started with only the one original idea...they are victims of their success ....it's a shame they can't just throttle back ...but then that would make them a hand built item and run the cost up so high that it would still be only wealthy man's toy

Things were easy back in the day when the new sailboat market was GROWING. When that happens, companies operate in the so-called 'abundance model' and things are easy. Salad days.

The sailboat market in the USA has greatly contracted. And the remaining market has changed. Anyone still making the same type of boats that made 20 years ago is doomed. IP, Sabre, C&C, the list goes on. Great boats but they had their lunch eaten by more nimble companies.

The one company who impresses me for bucking this is Catalina. Their boats are basically unchanged, and still do (seemingly) well. I think due to two things: Great customer service, and thousands of move-up customers coming out of a used C25 or C27 into a big boat of the same known brand. Having ten thousand of those old tubs sailing still is a huge boon for them!

Ken13559 · Mar 21, 2016

I got the impression European boat makers are growing from strength to strength.

cb32863 · Mar 21, 2016

I find it odd that people are surprised if a builder closes. When was the last time any one here bought a new boat? Not the "new to me" but, new from the factory. A lot of people choose not to or cannot afford the prices. People lament the passing of "another great brand that built great solid boats" but, they also didn't buy a new one.

Parsons · Mar 21, 2016

Two conclusions .... Support your local youth sailing association to promote the next generation of sailors. The second, perhaps more controversial, is that this is one of the results of income and wealth inequality. For the majority of us, inflation-adjusted income has decreased. The US middle class that bought luxury goods (sailboats, vacations, second homes, etc.) is shrinking, and the only ones with money are some retirees with pensions. This is not a political endorsement (please do not flame me), but an analysis of macro economics for a certain sector of the economy. I'd expect to see a Chinese company, perhaps with a purchased US or European brand name (Gunboat?), start coming out with some nice boats in the next decade.

Jackdaw · Mar 21, 2016

Ken13559 said:
I got the impression European boat makers are growing from strength to strength.

There is some truth to this.

Probably the biggest reason that that Europe never had the HUGE 'boom-then-bust' cycle that the USA had. For 10+ years here builders could not make enough boats. Backlogs. Boats selling above MSRP. etc etc. Now the number of people sailing in the USA is off 80%. And that means there is a huge supply of older boats.

In Europe the demand never went crazy, but has also stayed on a good curve. Sailing is popular in many countries (France, UK) at a cultural level. Good sailors are celebrities. Quick, name TWO current american sailors. European companies SPONSOR teams. Tens of thousands show up to watch races. And people buy new boats, because the value they see in the new designs. Builders push each other with innovative designs because it means sales.

People ask why we don't have a builder like Structures (Pogo builder) here in the USA. Seems obvious to me.

Skipper · Mar 21, 2016

Saturation.
When cars became affordable, everyone bought cars. When computers became affordable, everyone bought computers.
When sailboats became Fiberglass, and affordable vs wood, everyone (category) bought sailboats.
Harbors sprang up everywhere, including to accommodate fiberglass powerboats.
Now, nobody wants to build a harbor, especially on the west coast. Slip fees are huge in populated areas, and in some cases not available.
Also, cars typically last 10 to 15 years. Similar to cars, powerboats have a lifespan limited by engine failure.
Sailboats last for many decades, the motors having the benefit of minimal requirement, and not necessarily a prohibitive cost to replace if needed. There are still 1959 Pearson Tritons in service.
It takes a very long time of neglect to kill a good sailboat.
Many makers have been building immortal sailboats for eons. Now the harbors and market are full.
About the only sudden stimuli to the sailboat manufacturing industry are hurricanes.

Capt jgw · Mar 21, 2016

And some of those boats get rescued. And some of the owners probably get scared out of boating after the hurricane.

ifmdalvey · Mar 21, 2016

Truth is, Island Packet have been in trouble for the last year or so., but on March 1, the doors were locked for unpaid bills. They are trying to bring in new money and management but this seems to be taking longer than suggested.
Production and staff had drastically been reduced when i visited the factory 2 years ago, Seaward moved their production across to the IP facilities at Largo and now i guess they will be tarred with the same brush and unable to access their part of the facility.

Kings Gambit · Mar 21, 2016

Evidently, the world is not saturated w/ sailboats even if the US may be. Just look over any Sailing magazine of late. (I'm looking at the April 2016 issue.) Even a company in Turkey is getting in on the boat building scene with Euphoria. I also see advertised X-yachts, Bavarias, Dehlers, Italias, Jenneaus, Azurees, Swans, and etc., among the new monohulls. Then, amongst all of this, there was the story about a American guy who bought a 1992 Catalina 34, discovering that he had found the boat of his dreams! What does this type of portrayal say about the future of the US sailboat industry? Reminds me of the song title, The Thrill is Gone, and some lyrics: "The thrill is gone, it's gone away for good."

JohnVTX · Mar 21, 2016

Then, amongst all of this, there was the story about a American guy who bought a 1992 Catalina 34, discovering that he had found the boat of his dreams! What does this type of portrayal say about the future of the US sailboat industry? Reminds me of the song title, The Thrill is Gone, and some lyrics: "The thrill is gone, it's gone away for good."

So, are you saying that those of us who cannot afford a new boat do not have the same dreams as the rich? I too have the boat I dream't about for 30 years....

Jackdaw · Mar 21, 2016

ifmdalvey said:
Truth is, Island Packet have been in trouble for the last year or so., but on March 1, the doors were locked for unpaid bills. They are trying to bring in new money and management but this seems to be taking longer than suggested.
Production and staff had drastically been reduced when i visited the factory 2 years ago, Seaward moved their production across to the IP facilities at Largo and now i guess they will be tarred with the same brush and unable to access their part of the facility.

That's interesting, thanks for sharing that.

For several years two brand-new spec-built IPs sat on the water at our marina. Un-commissioned. A 370 and an Estero. I could never find out the business end of why on earth they were there on Lake Superior. The last year they were there, a guy saying he was 'with Island Packet' was opening up the boats. He offered to show me around. Clearly they were very well built, but I could not figure out who would buy one new. So I asked him who the target market for the boats was.

He said 'guys like you'. I said 'You're in big trouble'.

Kings Gambit · Mar 21, 2016

No, I'm saying that there is no real driving force for the production of new boat designs and products in the US if a large segment of the market is satisfied with the old ones. Consequently, we cannot look forward to "thrilling" new design concepts and productions among US boat manufacturers. Here, we're lamenting the closure of a boat company that virtually never much upgraded its design, one that not all that many people have owned.

Solstice · Mar 21, 2016

I know in previous threads discussions on the demise of sail boat manufacturers were blamed on economics, but the boat market in general does not support this assumption. My observation is that as the population ages people are moving to power to stay on the water.
Some of the savvy builders saw this trend early and began supporting their sailboat building with power boats.
It started with Hinckley, then Sabre, J boats, and now Tartan (their only showing at recent boat shows was their new Legacy line). These boats can have a 2 year wait and the median cost is north of $800k. My yard builds the MJM and they are pumping out 8-12 boats a month and recently moved to a bigger facility to build a 55 footer due to demand.
I happen to be friends with the principal owner of Sabre and he told me they hadn't sold a sailboat in 3 years back in 2012, but in touring the factory for their powerboats, they had 8 boats under construction and a backlog for their biggest boats of 18 months.
I can count 8 of our sailing friends who have moved to powerboats in the past 3 years.
Hunter was saved by a luxury powerboat builder and Catalina stopped building to spec back in 2011. To keep their skilled staff, they are building Geminis to make sure there is enough work to keep building sailboats.

Jackdaw · Mar 21, 2016

Kings Gambit said:
No, I'm saying that there is no real driving force for the production of new boat designs and products in the US if a large segment of the market is satisfied with the old ones. Consequently, we cannot look forward to "thrilling" new design concepts and productions among US boat manufacturers.

Except, tellingly, from US builders that build and then sell a large percentage of boats in Europe. Like J-boats.

reported sailboat manufacturing plant closures??

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