Racer not giving way

[Scott T-Bird]

True, I mixed up Kimmelmore with Okey in the original post but my position on this still stands. Okey should not have been forced to take evasive action, and his responses indicated that he was neither confused, freaked out, or exaggerating the circumstance. I can usually smell those things. Taking it personally? Absolutely not! I enjoy the confrontations! That probably comes from living in Jersey for almost 30 years! But speaking of Jersey ... our boat is calling from Barnegat and I'd better get down there for a night or 2 on the hook. Sue is waiting in the car. Hate to say it but I'm outta here for a few days! Good luck, fellas!

 

[Calif. Ted]

No one's condoning boorish behavior and when encountered I usually respond with nothing but a smile and a wave.

 

[Skipper]

you're not going to make many friends on the water. Especially if you choose to (like Skipper seemingly does) to do so because 'its COLREGS' and 'racers don't own the ocean'. That's a bad attitude..

Dude, you've completely MISSED everything I said. As usual.
I said, "if you find yourself in a crossing" and "avoid races if possible and easy and safe." (paraphrase).
The bad attitude started from the guy who called everyone a "douche" if they cross a racer. Oh, that was you.

 

[Stu Jackson]

True, I mixed up Kimmelmore with Okey in the original post but my position on this still stands.

but I'm outta here for a few days!

That could be the confusion, Scott. So Reading Comprehension 101 might be a good course to take (not coarse).

Look, ducking and avoiding is what we all do all the time when we're out on the water.

Years ago someone said, and has been oft repeated, that he, as skipper, assumes EVERYONE ELSE out there has NO CLUE. Therefore, he avoids everyone as soon as possible.

In a way, that's exactly what Jack and I have been saying. Perhaps we misinterpret your rants as: "I'm gonna follow the rules, F the rest of them, even if they are racing."

That's the part we have trouble with, because it is discourteous.

Yes, racers don't "own" the ocean. But we are all "fellow sailors" and being nice to someone who is working their tails off for their sport in a competitive way when a cruiser is just lolling along is the height of boorishness.

Sure, narrow channels are exceptions and folks who set race courses there should be keelhauled, but that was not the OP, nor the one you confused it with.

Hope you had a great weekend, hi to Sue.

 

[uncledom]

I race on the Hudson River every Wednesday night. There are barges, power boats and non racing sailboats. We and most of the other racers look so far ahead that we account for all the traffic and ensure there are no crossing problems. There are two helmsman that think they are special privilege boats and I have heard more than one barge give them 5 blasts, but hopefully, one day, that will be a self correcting issue.

 

[All U Get]

A whole week on this topic.
A yachtsman would carefully decide how to maneuver through every situation. Some boats drag nets and lines behind them so you may have to really go out of the way. ROW is so "je ne sais quoi".

All U Get

 

[Justin_NSA]

Let it go folks!

 

[DaveJ]

Gentlemen/Ladies, a very disappointing thread drift, started with a reasonable question, dissolved into personal attacks (not by all contributors). I agree with Justin above..... let it go folks......

 

[Jackdaw]

Dude, you've completely MISSED everything I said. As usual.
I said, "if you find yourself in a crossing" and "avoid races if possible and easy and safe." (paraphrase).
The bad attitude started from the guy who called everyone a "douche" if they cross a racer. Oh, that was you.

No I don't. That not what you said. This is your DIRECT QUOTE.

When I'm crossing a race, if I'm stand on, I stand on. It should be expected by the racers under COLREGS.
It's the ocean. Nobody owns it.

I've raced and cruised for a long time. The OP was asking about the hows and whys of this situation. I was commenting on how attitudes like yours will be perceived in the racing community. OF COURSE racers do not expect to always get a wave and a cross. Sometimes they are not seen. Sometimes someone can not tell they are racing. But taking a blanket attitude like yours WILL engender that type of feeling toward you. I wanted to spare him that fate.

This thread has more than run its course. I'm out.

 

[Kings Gambit]

I'll jump into the fray here briefly b/c there are many races that are held in Long Beach Harbor (where my boat was slipped for 15 yr) during the summer; many. I know the general courses b/c spar buoys and oil islands around the harbor serve as marks. The various yacht clubs favor subareas of the harbor for their respective races and if I'm day-sailing I avoid as best I can those areas during racing. However, if I do find myself in the path of a few yachts dueling it out for the weather mark, or otherwise; of course, I try to stay out of their way, EVEN if I have to punch it with the diesel to get out of the way. When I'm racing I find myself very annoyed at other yachts not in the race lumbering across my course where I have to duck 'em or slow down, etc. The skipper seemingly clueless that he's in the middle of a race course and all those yachts screaming toward him are in it!! Sure--he can stand-on his course if the COLREGS favor that; but why? What harm to tack away for a few minutes and let the racers go by? Sometimes it's fun to watch--lots of very nice race boats out there!

 

[Benny17441]

The Colregs is a series of International Navigation Rules to prevent collisisons at sea. The US adopted the 72 (1972) COLREGS) in the International Navigations Act of 1977. They were adopted for inland navigation in the Inland Navigation Rules Act of 1980. The rules do not mention "right of way" and only defines the assigned functions of the Stand On and Give Way vessels and the responsibilities on a Head On situation. It also defines the different functions between an overtaking vessel and a crossing vessel. The most important mandate is that irrespective of the actions of the stand on or give way vessel is the responsibility of both to take action to avoid collision. Among sailing vessels it is determined that the vessel with the wind in its port side (at the mainsail) is the Give Way vessel, if both vessels are crossing with the wind at their port side then the windward vessel shall be the Give Way. In case a skipper is in doubt about his situation he needs to act as a Give Way vessel. Bottom line even if a vessel does not obey the rules you have a responsibility to take prompt action to avoid collisison. Do your part and take pride in your seamanship. There are no rules to prevent you from becoming the Give Way vessel so use common sense and if you see a boat engaging in an activity whether it is fishing or racing and you are just cruising around give them way as a courtesy. The majority of rule breaches are a result of ignorance and it is out there and we have to deal with it. No use getting personal.

 

[SFS]

Thank you mods.

 

[Skipper]

No I don't. That not what you said. This is your DIRECT QUOTE.



I've raced and cruised for a long time. The OP was asking about the hows and whys of this situation. I was commenting on how attitudes like yours will be perceived in the racing community. OF COURSE racers do not expect to always get a wave and a cross. Sometimes they are not seen. Sometimes someone can not tell they are racing. But taking a blanket attitude like yours WILL engender that type of feeling toward you. I wanted to spare him that fate.

This thread has more than run its course. I'm out.

Like I said to the other guy, I know what I said. You would have had to read all of my comments to not have missed the point, which I repeated numerous times. This is not the first time you have missed, and have jumped all over.
It is safe and correct to maintain the rules if you find yourself in a crossing. I did not say to cross. I said if you must. Anyone who reads the comments would easily understand that, prior to name calling.
Nobody is a "douche" for following the rules, which are there to eliminate confusion. If you add special points for categories outside of the standardized rules, it creates confusion.
I'll summarize my previous statements for ease of comprehension: one should avoid racing boats, if it is safe and practical to do so, and well before a cross, if in fact a cross with racers is apparent.
However, if one finds himself in a cross, stick to the rules.
This would hold up in any court or collision investigation, and is recommended by the Coast Guard.
BTW the rules include evasive action if a collision is imminent, regardless of who is stand on.

 

[Stu Jackson]

one should avoid racing boats, if it is safe and practical to do so, and well before a cross, if in fact a cross with racers is apparent.
However, if one finds himself in a cross, stick to the rules.

I don't think anyone could, should or would disagree with this. Thank you.

 

[kimelmore]

I must apologize. I seem to have added a dimension to this conversation that confused some including myself. I agree that there are those that are courteous on the water and those that aren't. In my post I was describing a situation that I wasn't prepared for. I was new to the area and had no idea what was happening when the boats suddenly veered in my direction and began to swarm down on me. I still believe I did the right thing by holding my course. And to be fair it was only one boat that had a rude skipper. The rest of the boats were all smiles and waving and having an obviously great day out on the water which is what its all about anyway. Again, my apologies for hijacking the thread.

 

[marke14]

Yeah, all of that is well and good. I saved 15% on my insurance today!

 

[Kings Gambit]

I felt it was very rude of them to scream at me (including some words that the two children in the boat should not have been subjected to). I can appreciate the "seconds can count" but it is after all is said and done, just a sporting event. Racers DO NOT have an automatic ROW in my book. Yes I was on a direct line between the two marks but I'm not the idiot that decided where to place the two marks on a summer weekend afternoon.

If boats are racing PHRF in southern California each should have an identifying sail number on their mainsail. You can search the roster of the Southern California PHRF on-line for that sail number and get the name of the skipper/owner, the boat, and the yacht club of which he is a member. If I felt seriously harassed out there I might be tempted to ask the Commodore of his club, and that skipper, to meet w/me to discuss this offensive behavior in front of my guests, including their children, etc. Nothing might come of your request; likely not even. However, the clubs and many of their members do wish to be regarded as sportsman dedicated to the sportsmanship of yacht racing--i.e., as in promoting so-called "Corinthianism" in its present-day connotations. So, you never know. Just an FYI for the future.

 

[Sandy Stone]

If boats are racing PHRF in southern California each should have an identifying sail number on their mainsail. You can search the roster of the Southern California PHRF on-line for that sail number and get the same of the skipper, the boat, and the yacht club of which he is a member. If I felt seriously harassed out there I might be tempted to ask the Commodore of his club, and that skipper, to meet w/me to discuss this offensive behavior in front of my guests, including their children, etc. Nothing might come of your request; likely not even. However, the clubs and many of their members do wish to be regarded as sportsman dedicated to the sportsmanship of yacht racing--i.e., as in promoting so-called "Corinthianism" in its present-day connotations. So, you never know. Just an FYI for the future.

Good suggestion. I would like to think my club would respond appropriately.

 

[oldlaxer1]

Ironically, last night I was out teaching my son to sail (30 ft boat) and had hardly left the confines of our marina, on a starboard tack, getting just enough lift to clear the end of the dock when what should appear from behind the dock....about 15 J-22's in a race. I couldn't see them behind the massive power boats at that end of the marina.
Setting chutes, most of the fleet went toward the middle of the harbor but two stayed (pretty sure they fouled each other) right near the dock and dead ahead of me. No way I could tack because I'd be heading right into the crossing fleet. I split the two remaining J's. the one to my port saw me. You should have seen the shock on the face of the guy who passed within about 10 feet to starboard of me. Never looked out of his boat. I politely said "good evening".
My son got a big kick out of it.

 

[Sailm8]

Back to the OP. Had there been a collision and an insurance claim, how would liability be determined? I ask because we have a collision with damage between racers about once a year but it has always been handled between racers without a claim so I have never heard what happens when insurance is involved.