Questions About Bottom Paint

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,119
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
If you leave your boat in the water year round, like we do here in socal, it makes more sense to use a hard shell, modified epoxy type bottom paint. It works by emitting biocides over time. It will not lose it's effectiveness with regular gentle wipe downs(it's hard for that reason)....as opposed to hard scrubbing a fewer numper of times. When hard shell paint is exposed to air, the time release biocides will quickly leech out of the paint. So the strategy in my area is to apply the hard shell paint every few years and use a diver to wipe the bottom of algae once a month or so. My dive charges $45 per monthly cleaning. I usually haul out and paint every 4 to 5 years. Do the math.... $540 / year and the cost of a haul out and bottom job every 5 years.

The are some new paints that could be considered "hybrid" .... I have no comment. This is just "old school" ablative vs hard shell paint argument. So... to continue.. if you trailer your boat, or dry store it, you'll want to use the ablative style which works by "sloughing " off microscopic layers as the haul moves through the water. Ablative paint, traditionally, is not affected by exposure to air....simple as that (not really, but for this discussion it is)!

Out here, we wait a couple of months bottom paint application before first cleaning, then go to regular maintenance schedule. The diver will use a piece of carpet to simply remove the algae for the first couple of years, then may need to scrape the water line for the worms.

Ablative paint, by it's nature requires less diver maintenance, unless you're racing or course... but by and large it's a seasonal maintenance ritual. This regular repainting makes the job and easy DIY with minimal prep... So.... pick your poison.
 
Sep 7, 2020
35
J boats J30 Iuka, MS
$45 / month for a tall ship, Joe? That’s awesome!
I am moving to CA. Cost of living must be low there.

Anyway, makes total sense about the out time before launch. Explains why my bottom paint did not work at all.

I had a boat on Leech Lake in MN. Would have to pull it out in the winter. It never had any bottom growth at the end of the season. It would get a little bit of slime on the boot stripe. Was so shocked about the growth here in MS. But, sounds like that is normal across the country.

Since bottoms foul anyway, even with antifouling paint, we should be coating the bottom with Teflon instead. Or, like surf board wax.
 
Jan 11, 2014
12,212
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Since bottoms foul anyway, even with antifouling paint, we should be coating the bottom with Teflon instead. Or, like surf board wax.
VC 17 is based on teflon or a teflon like chemical.

Wax is a poor choice as it is "sticky" to water. That is why water beads up on a waxed surface. It will slow the boat down. :beer:
 
Jun 9, 2008
1,780
- -- -Bayfield
Whatever paint you choose, read the can's label and it should tell you how long to wait between coats and how long to wait, if at all, to launch.
VC17m is a single season paint with a cuprous oxide base which means if you pull it and let the hull dry, a chemical change takes place that renders the paint ineffective - the same goes with any cuprous oxide paint like Interlux' Bottomkote.
Ablative paints are multi season and last longer because typically it is recommended that you apply at least 3 coats. it works like a bar of soap. The more you wash your hands, the smaller the bar gets, but it continues to clean your hands. The multi season paints also are not affected if you pull your boat and let your hull dry. So, they are recommended for sailors who might move their boat from one body of water to another. Ablative paints tend to be softer and so at the end of the season, you don't want to power wash your expensive paint off. If there is some slime, take a regular garden hose and lightly clean the hull. When you start to see bare hull, you know it is time to re apply the paint. This also means there is no build up after time, like most other single season paints with the exception of VC17, which never builds up.
The other thing to consider is what sort of fouling conditions you have where you sail. Obviously VC17 isn't going to be adequate in a tropical area where fouling is huge. So many things enter in to paint selection. If your boat is kept near an industrial area, your hull might be contaminated with chemicals from that site, which doesn't help your situation any.
I suggest, knowing where you sail, that you look at all the paints out there and read what each one offers. Or, ask others who are in the know where you sail for their recommendations.
 
Jan 11, 2014
12,212
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Anyone ever heard of using VS721 instead of bottom paint? Its supposed to prevent marine growth from sticking to the bottom.
I have heard of this product, I have not heard of anyone using it.

Reading the Amazon reviews, the gist seems to be it makes it easier to clean the bottom as the algae doesn't stick to the hull. The reviews all seemed to be from powerboats.

It is usually helpful to look at the SDS, it can be found here:


Note there are no hazardous materials listed on the SDS, this is in contrast to SDSs for antifouling paints which always list the pesticides and herbicides in the paint and warn of dangers associated with them.

My guess, this is just a wax of some kind that sort of works on powerboats because water pressure from going fast washes the growth off the bottom.
 
  • Helpful
Likes: rgranger
Jan 19, 2010
12,543
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
They also claim it will get "impossible" stains out of gel coat. This has the same active ingredient hypexine (BTW: not a real chemical name)


Some of the vendor's I've seen call it a bottom wax ... so I think @dlochner nailed it.
 
Sep 7, 2020
35
J boats J30 Iuka, MS
Do you guys know what chemical got outlawed 30 years ago? Like, can we get some of that stuff from Monsanto and mix it into the paint? That is, if you don’t live in California.
 
Jan 11, 2014
12,212
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Do you guys know what chemical got outlawed 30 years ago? Like, can we get some of that stuff from Monsanto and mix it into the paint? That is, if you don’t live in California.
It was a tin based compound, tributyltin, that was extremely toxic to aquatic life. Because it was not copper based it was used on aluminum boats. Regulations vary some from state to state. Here's a summary of some of the regulations.

 
Feb 26, 2011
1,436
Achilles SD-130 Alameda, CA
Do you guys know what chemical got outlawed 30 years ago? Like, can we get some of that stuff from Monsanto and mix it into the paint? That is, if you don’t live in California.
It was tributyl tin and it's against federal law to use it in anti fouling paint. So let us know how that works out for you.
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,272
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
I’ve seen it for sale in two different Caribbean islands. Not sure if either are party to the international treaty which “banned it”. While there might be a U.S. Federal statute codifying the ban, it obviously doesn’t apply elsewhere and I’ve seen U.S. flagged boat bottoms painted with it there.
 
Feb 26, 2011
1,436
Achilles SD-130 Alameda, CA
I’ve seen it for sale in two different Caribbean islands. Not sure if either are party to the international treaty which “banned it”. While there might be a U.S. Federal statute codifying the ban, it obviously doesn’t apply elsewhere and I’ve seen U.S. flagged boat bottoms painted with it there.
Yes, and it's illegal to bring those boats into U.S. territorial waters.
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,272
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
Yes, and it's illegal to bring those boats into U.S. territorial waters.


it’s likely a moot point in that neither the CG or Customs checks for certification anytime when we re-enter US waters.


“4. Florida
Antifouling paints containing organotin compounds with an acceptable release rate (not exceeding 4.0 micrograms per square centimeter per day at steady state conditions30) are listed as restricted-use pesticides and, therefore, may only be sold, distributed, and used in Florida by licensed dealers and applicators.31 Licensed applicators may apply TBT-based paints to vessels which exceed 25 meters in length or to vessels with aluminum hulls. Florida also exempts organotin antifouling paints in aerosol cans of 16 ounces or less for use on outboard motors or lower drive units.32”
 
Feb 26, 2011
1,436
Achilles SD-130 Alameda, CA
it’s likely a moot point in that neither the CG or Customs checks for certification anytime when we re-enter US waters.


“4. Florida
Antifouling paints containing organotin compounds with an acceptable release rate (not exceeding 4.0 micrograms per square centimeter per day at steady state conditions30) are listed as restricted-use pesticides and, therefore, may only be sold, distributed, and used in Florida by licensed dealers and applicators.31 Licensed applicators may apply TBT-based paints to vessels which exceed 25 meters in length or to vessels with aluminum hulls. Florida also exempts organotin antifouling paints in aerosol cans of 16 ounces or less for use on outboard motors or lower drive units.32”
Your quote is years out of date and in fact was irrelevant by 2012, when the IMO ban on TBT anti fouling paints was ratified and subsequently enforced in the United States