Question about nav lighting

[davidmhull]

I apologize up front for this lengthy post but it was needed to clarify my question. These are exchanges with the USCG that I have had concerning my oday so please bear with me.

"I have a question about lighting on my sailboat. The boat is just short of 7 meters in length. It now has the bow mounted bi-color nav lights and an all around masthead light. The masthead light may be for navigation or it may be an anchor light I assume. The boat does not have a stern light and did not come from the manufacturer with a stern light installed. My question is this.
Can I use my bow mounted nav lights and the all around masthead light at night under sail? I believe that if I am under power at night I turn off the masthead all around light and use my bow mounted nav lights and stern light (which it does not have right now). I am often under sail and power at night so I do not want anything that would illuminate the sails since I would be blinded at that point for night vision. This would make a mast mounted "steaming" light a bad idea. I think what I can do is just add a stern light and turn off the masthead all around light for powering at night(with the bow mounted nav lights on of course). This brings up another question however. If I mount a stern light in the center of the transom it will be partially blocked by the rudder post. Is it legal to mount a flush mounted stern light off center to avoid having a portion of the light blocked by the rudder post?
I would mount it on a staff under the boom but it would get in the way of the tiller. Thanks so much for any advice you can give me."

From the USCG:

As you indicated, sailing vessels should have a sidelight and stern light (per Rule 25(a)) these lights may be combined in one lantern at the top of the mast (per Rule 25(b)). If under 7 meters they shall, if practicable, exhibit these lights. If impractical, then a white light.

Since you often operate your vessel under power at night, you are really a power-driven vessel and therefore required to display sidelights and a sternlight (per Rule 23(a) and (c)).

Rule 21 (c) says: Sternlight means a white light placed as nearly as practicable at the stern showing an unbroken light over an arc of the horizon of 135° and so fixed as to show the light 67.5° from right aft on each side of the vessel.

Annex I covers the rules regarding light placement and doesn't specify anything more specific for the placement of a sternlight on a vessel of your size. That being said, the option you provided (mount a flush mounted stern light off center) would sufficiently meet the requirement.


We hope this answers your inquiry and we exhort you to always navigate safely,

U.S. Coast Guard
Office of Navigation Systems
Washington, DC 20593-7851

I am still a bit confused. I obviously need to mount a stern light which I have done but I do not want to mount a "masthead" or "steaming" light because it will illuminate the sail and I will not be able to see at night. Can I use the all around anchor light which is visible for 2 nm , my bow nav lights and the stern light without adding the steaming light?

 

[Stu Jackson]

I am still a bit confused. I obviously need to mount a stern light which I have done but I do not want to mount a "masthead" or "steaming" light because it will illuminate the sail and I will not be able to see at night. Can I use the all around anchor light which is visible for 2 nm , my bow nav lights and the stern light without adding the steaming light?

The masthead all around light is an anchor light.

The steaming light shows only forward, not all around, and is used when motoring only, not sailing, at night.

Simple answer is no.

You can go to any respected website about boat nav lights or any BOOK (!) and read what is required.

www.boatsafe.com

 

[RIVERCRUISER]

"Is it legal to mount a flush mounted stern light off center to avoid having a portion of the light blocked by the rudder post?"

Can't answer your question but, FWIW... The stern light on my 29.5 is mounted offcenter to starboard because of the open stern. It is a factory install is my guess.

 

[Rick D]

Night Vision

I do not believe you will find any loss of night vision with the steaming light of an output required for your vessel. The downward lighting in minimal since the primary function is to light forward and to the side. If mounted up by the spreaders, there will be little light within your field of vision off the jib. And, when powering, more often then not, the jib is furled or dropped. I don't remember them answering your question regarding utilizing both the masthead and side lights together; you should not.

 

[Davidasailor26]

My interpretation of the USCG response and the rules themselves (http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=navRulesContent#rule23) is as follows:

When sailing, you can use the bow lights and a stern light you add per rule 25.a, or you can just use the masthead light per rule 25.d.i.

The USCG response didn't seem to exactly address your question about the steaming light under motor. But based on rule 23.d.i I'd say when motoring you don't need the steaming or stern lights, just the bow lights and the masthead all around.

Disclaimer: I'm not an authority and i disclaim any liability if someone runs into you at night.

 

[Joe Blizzard]

I am still a bit confused.

I don't have much to offer other than to agree that it's confusing and manufacturers don't seem to be doing us any favors light-wise. My boat rolled off the assembly line with a bicolor light up front, an all-around at the top of the mast, no steaming light, and a stern light mounted where it's partially obscured by the rudder post.

 

[Ron20324]

The OP answer from the CG is to say "lights may be combined in one lantern at the top of the mast", such 'lantern' would have sectors of red/green/white as if three separate 'lanterns' were used down at deck level. Also, if you are sailing at night, you would PROBABLY not be also under motor, and thus would not use the steaming light when strictly under sail- and not motoring.

 

[SailingHarry]

What a mess we get from the factory!

Under power, you need red/green, as well as white in all directions. This is "normally" done on sailboats with a stern light and a "steaming light" (I use quotes, as the rules do not define a "steaming light" -- what we call that is really a "masthead light" and shines forward). However, in smaller boats (I forget the limit, but it's legal on my 34' boat), these two can be one light (as often seen on runabouts).

Under sail, you need red/green and a stern light (although at your length, you are legal with a single light -- even a flashlight!)

So, what you can do with what you have and what you need:

* Under power -- red/green and white at top of mast (360 degree).
* Under sail -- red/green and (new) stern (or a flashlight on your sails as needed).
* Under anchor -- white at top of mast.

So, to get a decent solution, add a stern light on a dedicated switch. Turn on red/green, mast top, and stern as needed.

Oh, and the stern does NOT need to be on center line. My 34' came with the stern light on the pushpit about 2 feet off center. At 100 yards, you'll never notice!

Harry

 

[centerline]

I apologize up front for this lengthy post but it was needed to clarify my question. These are exchanges with the USCG that I have had concerning my oday so please bear with me.

My question is this.
I am often under sail and power at night so I do not want anything that would illuminate the sails since I would be blinded at that point for night vision.
This would make a mast mounted "steaming" light a bad idea.\

If I mount a stern light in the center of the transom it will be partially blocked by the rudder post. Is it legal to mount a flush mounted stern light off center to avoid having a portion of the light blocked by the rudder post?


I am still a bit confused. I obviously need to mount a stern light which I have done but I do not want to mount a "masthead" or "steaming" light because it will illuminate the sail and I will not be able to see at night. Can I use the all around anchor light which is visible for 2 nm , my bow nav lights and the stern light without adding the steaming light?

you DO need some type of steaming light... and a masthead light, shining forward, mounted on top of the mast with the anchor light, as opposed to one mounted on the FRONT of the mast a bit lower, will NOT illuminate your sails.
a steaming light on top of the mast wont, and it cant, shine downward if it has the correct lens and is mounted correctly... the lens is designed to throw the light outward and not down or up....
mine is mounted on top of my mast and I cannot even see that it is on except the wind vane and vhf antennae are illuminated.... and I like the fact that my windvane shows up in the dark, no matter if im motoring or sailing.

any portion of the head sail that could "illuminate" or reflect any light is well below the scope of the light.
and even it you were able to see the top of the sail a bit, it being that high up it isnt going to cause you night blindness any more than the moon will...

as for the stern light, it can be mounted high, low, to port or starboard.... it dont really matter as long as it is as close to the stern of the vessel as practical.

 

[Rick Webb]

Just to Show I had to Study snd Learn This Stuff

Not that it really makes a difference worth concerning yourself with.

International Rules require lights to be on the centerline. Inland rules allow lights to be offset.

So whenever I leave the East Pass here I am not in compliance as my stern light is on the starboard side of my stern. I very much doubt you'll find anyone who is concerned about it.

Another issue is the "steaming light" must be at least one meter above the "side Lights" I see many boaters with the stick in the socket light that have a short pole on the white light and it is at or just above the red and green lights.

 

[Ron20324]

The OP needs to get an official CG publication or some other reference book, as there are too many opinions here, and not sufficent knowledge about the OP size boat. Nigel Calder Crusing Handbook, P 382 (not an "official" book) points out that a boat that can go no more than 7 knots and is less than 23 feet need only an all-around white light. R&G not needed.

 

[davidmhull]

Not to beat a dying horse but the USCG seems happy to accept my all around/anchor light along with the nav lights and the transom light. They did not mention having to add a steaming light at the spreaders. Here is another part of the email from them:

"Given the fact that you already have bow mounted sidelights and the masthead/anchor light and only require a sternlight you're proposed course of action to mount a sternlight slightly off-center is acceptable."

Remember when you opt to illuminate the sail at night you should not be under power (power-driven) as that would falsely be advertising your situation and require other vessels to steer clear of you unnecessarily.

We hope this answers your inquiry and we exhort you to always navigate safely,

U.S. Coast Guard
Office of Navigation Systems
Washington, DC 20593-7851

So according to them I only need the nav lights, the stern light and the all around masthead light.
Am I missing something here? Probably but they really have confused me now. I would really like to just be able to switch off the masthead light when I am under power or turn it on when I start the engine.

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

The OP needs to get an official CG publication or some other reference book, as there are too many opinions here, and not sufficent knowledge about the OP size boat. Nigel Calder Crusing Handbook, P 382 (not an "official" book) points out that a boat that can go no more than 7 knots and is less than 23 feet need only an all-around white light. R&G not needed.

Agree with your first sentence, but there is PLENTY of info on his boat-

21 feet, 6 inches LOA

7 feet, 1 inch beam

18.9 feet water line length

And I STILL will never understand the "anchor light at the mast head" idea.. WORST possible place. Yes, SHIPS can see it, but I don't anchor where ships travel. I want that early morning fisherman to see the light- just above eye level hanging from the rigging. He ISN'T looking up!!

 

[woodster]

Agree with your first sentence, but there is PLENTY of info on his boat-

21 feet, 6 inches LOA

7 feet, 1 inch beam

18.9 feet water line length

And I STILL will never understand the "anchor light at the mast head" idea.. WORST possible place. Yes, SHIPS can see it, but I don't anchor where ships travel. I want that early morning fisherman to see the light- just above eye level hanging from the rigging. He ISN'T looking up!!

a good solution to that is to hang a oil lamp on the boom in the cockpit at dark they will burn for about thirty hrs and will be seen by the fishermen

 

[Rick Webb]

That is All You Need

Masthead and Steaming Lights are often confused terms

When under sail you need:

Red light on the port side for 112.5 degrees
Green light on starboard side for 112.5 degrees
White light on stern for 135 degrees


When under power you need:

Red light on the port side for 112.5 degrees
Green light on starboard side for 112.5 degrees
White light on stern for 135 degrees
White light facing bow for 225 Degrees
the whites lights can be one 360 degree light which is what you usually see on powerboats.

At anchor white light for 360 degrees


The question now is how do you configure the lights to get those light configurations.

Under sail is easy your bow light and the stern light

Under power you have a couple of options,
1. bow light and the stern light and a 225 degree "steaming light" usually about 2/3s of the way up the mast
2. bow light and the 360 degree "mast head light"
3. bow light and the stern light and the forward half (225 degrees) of a two bulb "mast head light"

At anchor either the lone 360 light at the top of the mast or if you have the two bulb fixture both bulbs illuminated to give you 360 degrees of light.

Many of us have the two bulb fixture at the top of the mast and I believe is the simplest option. Using the tight at the top of the mast as your stern light as well works but folks are not looking that far up and may not see you at night.

Hope this helps to clear up some of your questions.

Another avenue for assistance is to ask the local Coast Guard Auxiliary or Power Squadron for a courtesy "Vessel Safety Check" (VSC). Most of these guys are sharp and really know their stuff but keep in mind they are volunteers and may not have a great deal of experience or may not be very familiar with sailboats. But it is free and may be able to point you to the answers to all sorts of questions. I am a member of the Auxiliary and have been doing VSCs for some time it still amazes me how much there is to learn about this stuff.

I would be happy to help answer any questions and send you the pertinent sources if you desire.


The 7 knot deal is correct there was an FWC Officer out here who was making believers out of many here who thought they just needed a flashlight. It is not if you are going more than seven knots it is if you are capable of doing more than seven knots.

 

[Davidasailor26]

So according to them I only need the nav lights, the stern light and the all around masthead light. Am I missing something here? Probably but they really have confused me now. I would really like to just be able to switch off the masthead light when I am under power or turn it on when I start the engine.

I think you're exactly right about the number and type of lights you need, just a little off about when you'd need them. The bow lights would always be on. The stern light would be on when sailing (off motoring), and the masthead would be on when motoring (off when sailing). Motoring you'd comply with rule 23.d.i (see http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=nr_23c) and sailing you'd comply with 25.a (see http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=nr_25a).

 

[Rick Webb]

One thing you do not want is to have your 135 degree stern light and your 360 degree masthead light lit at the same time.

It would confuse other boaters out there who would see two white lights from your stern

 

[woodster]

here is you answer ...http://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/Navigation-Light-Rules

 

[Hello Below]

http://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/Navigation-Light-Rules

 

[centerline]

And I STILL will never understand the "anchor light at the mast head" idea.. WORST possible place. Yes, SHIPS can see it, but I don't anchor where ships travel. I want that early morning fisherman to see the light- just above eye level hanging from the rigging. He ISN'T looking up!!

i'll disagree.

a light at the masthead is very easily seen under all but the foggiest conditions, as well as anywhere else you my have it mounted. with the exception of a light mounted elsewhere and you happen to be approaching from the opposite direction with the light being in the eclipse of an object such as the mast or sail...

and if you are close enough to the vessel that it is out of your upper peripheral vision, then you are very likely close enough to the vessel to actually see it even in the darkest of nights.... and if it is a night with absolute darkness, the masthead light will catch your eye easily...

in addition, many, many times the fog hangs on the water about 10-15ft thick... with the masthead in very clear weather, and a light shrouded in the fog cannot be seen very far, but one that is above the fog and is visible from above has a much better chance of being seen than a hidden one....

sometimes the fog is layered a bit higher and the hull can be clearly seen, but the rigging cant.... and a light isnt going to be seen unless its less than 5ft from the surface of the water....

and if its a complete white out with fog, a light has little use. and if its a clear night, then there is no problem...

ive NEVER seen the time or condition where the coach roof/boom area of a vessel was visable but the hull and mast were not.... the fog just doesnt layer that way... its either the lower portion of the hull or the upper section of the mast.

so no matter what theory you want to argue, it doesnt matter, because 2 conditions will dictate whether the light can be seen or not..... the weather and how observant the "look out" is....

personally I want my light above the fog in the best place for a fisherman or ferryman to see it, as that is where they are located when looking out their wheelhouse window.
too many times ive seen the layered fog, and i know for a fact in these conditions a masthead light is better.