News flash: cool fast boats sell.

[Jackdaw]

The next America’s Cup racers are foiling monohulls... a mix of old and new... of course they are one design racers, but it is worth noting that they pulled a card from the old and a card from the new. I would allow surgery on my private parts to own one of those!
Perhaps people need the relativity AND the cutting edge. Gunboat didn’t sell many of those foiling 36 ft cats. The America’s Cup didn’t sell well with cats, but VOR did good with foiling mono’s. Not big, but good. Again, if I could have the space of a monohull with double the VMG like a foiler or even 50% better speed with a regular tri or cat, I would be there. I would still be in the secnd echelon, buying used because I cannot afford 300k.
Did you know that there are 80’s America’s Cup yachts that cost millions and sell for $100k? No, they are not good couples cruisers, but prices do come down. I hope plenty of people buy Pogo 36’s, Leopards, and other fast monos amd cats because they will be my next selection!

Coming soon to a slip near you????

 

[jssailem]

So how does this "build in your own country" plan work if they are going to be Beneteau boats?

 

[Jackdaw]

Jackdaw's statement that the Pogo 36 not being a race boat should not be underestimated. We are discussing the value of speed for this and some other modern designs. But, from what Jackdaw has presented, is that it is fast AND a comfortable cruiser. I believe, from his descriptions, also easily handled. In other words, the Racer/Cruiser of the 70's reinvented for 2017. If a chunk of money fell in my lap, I would be looking at this genre of boats.
We have a couple of flat out racing boats in town tonight. There are 2 Open class 40's and a Mills 68, which are here for the Greenport Ocean/Bay Race for the Brooklyn Ocean Challenge Cup (Not a catchy name but there is a great history.) This was a shameless plug for out hometown event which is catching fire.

While certainly not a beginners boat, Pogo's philosophy of 'Fun, fast, safe' rings true for all of their boats. Its really hard to imagine how fast the things are. It takes a while to wrap your head around it. Its a function of light weight and righting motion. So in the case of the 40 foot Pogo 12.5 you take the displacement of a typical 32 footer racer/cruiser, and add the initial stability of 13 feet of beam, and ultimate stability of 60% of the total displacement in a lead bulb at the bottom of a 12 foot retractable keel. Then add a huge sailplan. The thing doesn't heel, it just shoots forward.

You mention the Class 40s, the Pogo 12.5 IS a Class 40, same hull as the Pogo 40s2, which won the Route du Rhumb Transatlantic race. Just with a slightly detuned (no runners) rig. The thing planes going upwind, while you're having appetizers and drinks in the cockpit.

 

[Jackdaw]

So how does this "build in your own country" plan work if they are going to be Beneteau boats?

Thats the new Figaro III, the middle step of the French/European sailing progression. Most European racing sailors take this ocean sailing progression. First Class 7.5, Mini Transat, Figaro, Class 40, Imoca 60.

They'll sell that to anyone with the $200k.

It also means you'll be about to get a KILLER deal on a used Figaro II. The market going to be flooded with them soon.

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/200...th-Germany,-Baltic-coast/Germany#.WdZPFMiGO00

 

[Scott T-Bird]

That particular boat kind of kills the argument that sales in new sailboats is going to benefit from the innovations. What market segment is going to want to buy one of those at any price?

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Coming soon to a slip near you????
View attachment 141570

If it needs draft greater than 4 or 5', not to a slip near me ... I could guarantee.

 

[dlochner]

A timely article from BoatUS:

https://www.boatus.com/pressroom/release.asp?id=1329

 

[Jackdaw]

That particular boat kind of kills the argument that sales in new sailboats is going to benefit from the innovations. What market segment is going to want to buy one of those at any price?

That Figaro is a full on raceboat. The Pogo 36 will be almost as fast, 1000x more comfortable, AND get into your slip!

 

[jssailem]

That would be a fun toy for a race focused sailor.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

That Figaro is a full on raceboat. The Pogo 36 will be almost as fast, 1000x more comfortable, AND get into your slip!

That's the ticket. Translating the innovations is key to expanding the markets for new boats.

 

[agprice22]

That's the ticket. Translating the innovations is key to expanding the markets for new boats.

There will be NEW buyers and USED buyers. Those people may not change. Used buyers need new buyers to keep the used boat supply filled with cool boats. I would consider buying a sportier boat in the used market.

 

[pateco]

Thats the new Figaro III, the middle step of the French/European sailing progression. Most European racing sailors take this ocean sailing progression. First Class 7.5, Mini Transat, Figaro, Class 40, Imoca 60.

They'll sell that to anyone with the $200k.

It also means you'll be about to get a KILLER deal on a used Figaro II. The market going to be flooded with them soon.

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2005/Beneteau-Figaro-II-3045345/North-Germany,-Baltic-coast/Germany#.WdZPFMiGO00

Or for $31,000 this one:

Beneteau Figaro Challange One

 

[agprice22]

The thing doesn't heel, it just shoots forward.
The thing planes going upwind, while you're having appetizers and drinks in the cockpit.

Sounds good! Two of the things I and the Admiral love about our Telstar are that we can FEEL it accelerate, and as fast as it goes, it stays flat. You can set your beer down, and it won’t spill. Of course the padded bucket seats on the stern pulpit don’t hurt either!

 

[jwing]

There's a lot to like about the POGO 36. I like the design intent of that boat:

I might change a few things. See Robert Perry's review here: http://sailingmagazine.net/article-1709-pogo-36-sailboat-design-review.html
I agree with Mr. Perry.

I buy into the prediction that the future will trend away from asset ownership and more toward the freedom of renting. If I were a boat manufacturer, I would be designing to meet that trend. Not just big catamarans in the tropics, but fleets of racer/cruisers at the local marina level.

 

[agprice22]

I could work with renting, but renters would have to be well credentialed.

 

[Jackdaw]

Or for $31,000 this one:

Beneteau Figaro Challange One

Thats the original Figaro, the now known as the Figaro 1. Not a bad design still from 1990.

 

[shemandr]

Of course I did not know the Pogo 12.5 is the same hull as the open 40. I threw that in there to plug this race. But it is cool to have 2 in town for tomorrow's race for which I will be slaving away in the office. The Mills 68 is very interesting but I'll have to visit that in another post because the picture isn't available yet. I might be able to get some pics of the start tomorrow AM before work.
There could be a new thread about the history of design with regard to the major revolutions in technology - asymmetrical chutes, the return of fractional rigs, water ballast, canting keels, foils, flat after sections for planning, etc. It is notably that a design of 2013 is aging out of top competition. 1990? I was sailing Ensigns! The hot boats locally then were recycled IOR winch farms which had passed down from the front lines. J 35's were a hot class. Then there were the Farr's, Mumm's, Melges, not to mention the J-80 (Which I think was a revolutionary boat.) The design front has moved fast since then. It's a topic of much interest to me.

 

[Sailm8]

To get a bit back on topic, could the future of racers be to share the cost of these expensive boats as a team or club the way many people own a share of airplanes? You guys who race might know if this is already being done?

 

[pateco]

We already have club members that use an LLC structure to share ownership in a larger boat.

 

[Jackdaw]

To get a bit back on topic, could the future of racers be to share the cost of these expensive boats as a team or club the way many people own a share of airplanes? You guys who race might know if this is already being done?

It happens to a slight degree. Match racing in particular uses a fleet of existing, identical boats. And some events encourage 'charter' boats, where boats are made available for teams to come in (normally with their own sails) and use a local boat.

But the truth is that most high-level racer/owners are Type-A 'control aficionados' who want a personal level of control over every aspect of the boat. Like me. ;^)

I spent an hour at the boat yesterday updating the trip line on our spin pole. 2mm spiderline with plastic stoppers to allow single handed single side release. Its beautiful. No way I let anyone else do that!