New Dock Lines versus Older Dock Lines

pateco

.
Aug 12, 2014
2,207
Hunter 31 (1983) Pompano Beach FL
Unfortunately, we don't all have the luxury of such a spacious slip.
This is not a slip. In S Florida with all of the canal front docks, it is traditional to cross tie in the middle of the canal during Hurricanes. This moves your boat away from the dock, while blocking the canal from other boats. You can see my dock location in the below image.
Dock location.jpg
 
Feb 14, 2014
7,444
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
canal front docks
This normally works well.

We have smilar type dead end Canal type developments.
But...
Katrina's storm surge that hit canals like your, when the surge was directed straight down the the canal [right to left on your picture] the guys at the dead end of canal were devastated.

If there was a jetty or blocking structure at the beginning or surge was different direction, Survival.
Jim...
 
Dec 29, 2008
805
Treworgy 65' LOA Custom Steel Pilothouse Staysail Ketch St. Croix, Virgin Islands
I think some of the rubber snubbers you wrap the line around will be on my sopping list
We had 2 of these very heavy snubbers break - one during Irma, the other during Maria. These were for 1" lines. As I recall, they were pretty costly, and they didn't do their job. They bothe snapped clean, right in the middle.
 
Jan 1, 2006
7,086
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
I didn't find them (Rubber Snubbers) very durable either. I bought some and used them for dampening on my dock lines - not for a storm. In one season the eyes wore through. I could have rigged them wrong but I didn't feel they were worth the money.
 

ggray

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Mar 20, 2016
9
Voyage 430 Deltaville, VA
One thing I've surmised about old nylon 3 strand docklines is that they must be very slow to rebound from stretching.

Many times I would to my boat to find the docklines loose (lying alongside to a floating dock, so lines tied with little to no slack). At first I thought someone was messing with my boat/lines, but then I concluded that loads had stretched them and it would take a long time to relax. Time for new lines!

The other interesting comment here is about WM moving into the clothing business. We've seen this before. Lands' End Co. sold only marine (primarily sail) equipment until they picked up a wool sailor's sweater to add to their catalog. They were a bit pricy, but their catalogs had a lot of good information and articles. But history now.
 

zeehag

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Mar 26, 2009
3,198
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
i have watched as 3 boats in san diego using yacht braid and other braided lines on their moorings had these lines snap in heavy chop and high winds, not even cane strength. braided lines have zero stretch. 3 strand is only kind of line to use. 3 strand nylon. old lines for canes. you need stretch and you need plenty of line and many redundancies. pilings as well as dock cleats.
i am still using lines i used in furycame patricia. only one has sign of chafe, and it is a 1 1/4 inch hawse line i use on pilings. the center is perfectly intact so has another cane season left in it. i think my newest dockline is new in 2007?? or 2008. you donot want your dock lines tight, as that snaps em fastest. you want your boat to move naturally without tugs or jerks.
 
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Feb 26, 2004
22,782
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
They bothe snapped clean, right in the middle.
I had two on my bow lines from 1998 to 2016 (when I moved). 1/2" dock lines, the things were probably big enough for 3/4" line. A year before I left the starboard one broke in the middle. This was in a very protected marina. Not something I would "depend" on.
 
Oct 19, 2017
7,752
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
you donot want your dock lines tight, as that snaps em fastest.
I have always been taught that dock lines are for several reasons. Bow and stern lines should be just long enough to keep the boat from banging into any pilings or docks. For example, in a slip, the starboard bow and stern lines hold the boat just off the dock or pilings or neighboring boat. The port lines do the same for the starboard. This allows the boat to move within the confines of the slip without banging into stuff. They have slack. Spring lines, on the other hand, hold the boat steady front to back, while allowing a spring in the shock of hard forces. Bow lines, stern lines are slack, spring lines are tight. The length of your spring line and its stretch should allow for the tide to rise and fall without significant movement of the boat. It is a lot different to tie to a pier in NE with 8' tides than to tie to a seawall in South FL with their 3' tides.
In preparation for a big storm, make spring lines as long as you can but make them tight. You can equalize stress for doubled lines by wrapping them around each other a few times. They snub each other. Not perfect but it helps.
As far as WM. Sounds like an opportunity for SailboatOwners.com or someone else to step in and fill the niche of quality products researched and promoted by real mariners for real mariners. It's not finding the products, you can get them from Amazon, it's having the trust in the supplier to give you quality useful stuff. That's why WM has been able to charge a premium for stuff you can get cheaper elsewhere.
- Will (Dragonfly)
 

pateco

.
Aug 12, 2014
2,207
Hunter 31 (1983) Pompano Beach FL
This normally works well.

We have smilar type dead end Canal type developments.
But...
Katrina's storm surge that hit canals like your, when the surge was directed straight down the the canal [right to left on your picture] the guys at the dead end of canal were devastated.

If there was a jetty or blocking structure at the beginning or surge was different direction, Survival.
Jim...

We were three houses from the inside end of the Canal. Here is a video of the boats during Irma:


The Spiderweb of lines kept them where they should be.
 

CarlN

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Jan 4, 2009
603
Ketch 55 Bristol, RI
While I agree there are many things that could have caused this, three strand nylon rope is not all the same. And West Marine sells several grades. I looked up West Marine's offerings. They offer three 3-strand nylon prespliced docklines - 1) New England Ropes 2) West Marine Premium, and 3) Seafit Economy. The West Marine Premium is described as made by New England Ropes. These two are described as being made with "premium" nylon fibers using a four stage balanced process and heat stabilized for a long lasting rope that doesn't stiffen conforming to Milspec MIL-R-24050. The Seafit description says it's best for "applications that don't require maximum strength or heavy-duty abrasion resistance" In the 1/2" size the New England Ropes (and West Marine Premium) have a breaking strength of 7500 lbs. The Seafit in the same size breaks at only 5700 lbs. I only buy rope from NER(Massachusetts), Yale Cordage (Maine), Samson(Washington), and Bucaneer (Arizona). I've had great experience with Bucaneer doublebraid nylon dock lines from Defender. Milspec. Never stiffen. Made in the US. Great pricing.
 
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Feb 14, 2014
7,444
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
The Spiderweb of lines kept them where they should be.
If your cool video was at the storm's peak winds, then your boat was perfectly pointed into the wind's direction or Minimum wind force on the lines.:clap:

Hopefully there was no wave of water [storms surge] that entered your canal.

BTW, as a side note, I used your technique to tie off for Hurricane Nate. I allowed for 10' of storm surge. Not a scratch.:) Luckily there was a empty canal near our marina, as all marinas were under mandatory evacuation.

Good Job!
Jim...
 
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pateco

.
Aug 12, 2014
2,207
Hunter 31 (1983) Pompano Beach FL
If your cool video was at the storm's peak winds, then your boat was perfectly pointed into the wind's direction or Minimum wind force on the lines.:clap:

Hopefully there was no wave of water [storms surge] that entered your canal.

BTW, as a side note, I used your technique to tie off for Hurricane Nate. I allowed for 10' of storm surge. Not a scratch.:) Luckily there was a empty canal near our marina, as all marinas were under mandatory evacuation.

Good Job!
Jim...
At the height of the surge, the water was over a foot above the pink paver deck in the video, so only 4 to 5 feet of surge. I don't have video of it, but when the storm eye passed over, and the wind shifted to the south, the neighbor across the canal said he saw our boats leaning to port almost 45°. That was with just mast and boom, no canvas at all. Luckily there were no trees close to the edge, or we may have caught the rig, and had a real issue. Some of the members of my sailing club removed their booms as well, and stowed them below. I don't know how much that would help.
 
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Feb 14, 2014
7,444
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
but when the storm eye passed over,
Sounds normal, but then the openness of the canal is providing a direct low resistance to winds.
As the wind directions changes, the nearby houses make a good wind block.

My Nate canal, had no housing around since Katrina had removed them, 12 yrs earlier!:yikes:

removed their booms as well
Boats, Masts and booms are designed to have low wind/water resistance, as your boat points into the wind, I would suspect the wind on the boat's hull profile is the key to wind force.

I would suggest to size lines, use Anchor Rode Sizing, or slightly less for multiple mooring lines.

The greatest forces are still the boat's buoyant forces, from rising storm surge water.;)
Jim...