Navigation using a Laptop PC

[Al - s/v Persephone]

iPad with Navionics and databuoy apps

Having been given an iPad 3G (the one with built-in cellular data modem), I was amazed to find a Navionics "app" for it for $25 that contained all the database for the East coast - just like my Raymarine C80.

With the iPad's 14in display that is as readable in bright light, and an integrated GPS receiver that locks-on to satellites much faster than the Raymarine GPS-125, the onlly thing the C80 gives me is the ability to overlay my RADAR and wind data on the chart.

With a cheap app ($5, I believe) for NOAA databuoy and tide model data recovery by Internet, I have a powerful set-up for cost-of-iPad-3G plus $30.

While I find the Navionics vector charts inferior for planning to NOAA raster chart software (like my Maptech Offshore Navigator), the need to keep the laptop below and out of the sunlight makes Navionics the best for piloting.

For anyone with an iPad, I strongly recommend trying the $25 Navionics app before spending more on just about anything short of an integrated networked chartplotter + RADAR + instruments system (for over 100 times more $).

Fair winds,
Al

 

[Stu Jackson]

Bad Obsession II

I have seaclear on my laptop and I have downloaded the Chesapeake Bay Charts....but I can't seem to get them to come up. I have the Raster Charts and I don't have a GPS receiver yet...is that the problem?

Anyone have any suggestions or ideas?

Sure, as noted in my link offered above, I bought the SeaClear on a disc with all the charts. I know, I know, you don't have to do that, but I made the choice and did it.

Anyway, here are the Advanced Instructions:

The hard drive installer is setup to install the program and charts into the default folder on your hard drive C:\SeaClear. [I figure the downloaded version does this also.]

This makes for a simple, automated installation, with all the charts automatically registered in the program.

If you wish to install the charts in a location other than the default one, you will then need to run the program MapCal to register the charts in tyhe program as described in the user manual.

Note: There are two steps that need to be taken when using MapCal.

--- First on is "Tools" "Set Directories" Set up the chart directories here.

--- Second is "Tools" "Autoload List" "recreate"

Close it and you are ready to run.

Most charting programs require this kind of manipulation so the program knows where the charts are located.

MapCal is most likely located in the file you unzipped when you downloaded SeaClear.

I'll betcha these instructions are somewhere in the Help files, too, but, hey, it's a guy thing...

 

[Tim R.]

For anyone with an iPad, I strongly recommend trying the $25 Navionics app before spending more on just about anything short of an integrated networked chartplotter + RADAR + instruments system (for over 100 times more $).

Fair winds,
Al

The iPad is not weatherproof, has serious SW limitations, no external connectivity(forget DSC), no replaceable battery. Even if someone already has an iPad, exactly how does an iPad replace radar, wind, speed and depth?

Leave the ipad in the cabin to be used as a backup CP only. It will also play all your music. More of a toy than a computer.

 

[Sumner]

Anyone have any suggestions or ideas?
==================================
You need to "register" each chart using s/w provided in the SeaClear package. Straightforward.

If they are in one folder/directory you can just tell seaclear the folder and *.* to pick up the entire folder and that will save doing them individually.

Before this trip (we are by Captiva, FL at the moment) I built a.....

............... 12 volt computer that has a number of serial and usb ports and a 320 gig drive and DVD drive and also.....

.....built a mount for the 9 inch monitor that rotates to look at it from inside or outside the cabin.

I also added a router and a.....

....Bullet 2HP radio under a 8dbi antenna for wifi. I've been hooked to free open wifi spots up to about 5 miles away.

The computer/monitor combo draws 1.8 amps on standby and about 2.3 when the drive is accessed and about 2.8 when the router and Bullet are turned on, so the total max draw has been under 35 watts. This is way less than running my laptop of a DC/DC converter which is way less than running the laptop on an AC inverter. The computer is hooked up to a USB GPS puck that cost less than $40. Find "Device Manager" on your computer and it will tell you which com port the puck is on and then tell SeaClear the com port. I have the handheld on com 1 and hooked to the transmit/receive on the Sea Clear so I can send the waypoints to it and the puck is on com6 telling SeaClear where we are. The computer I built has a number of Serial ports (the handheld uses one) so your com ports are probably different.

We are using SeaClear with the free NOAA charts and have been extremely happy with this combination and it has worked great on this trip at getting us back into anchorages in 2-3 feet of water that our boat can handle. I can lay out a route in a matter of minutes and then I always back this up, by downloading the routes waypoints to a handheld Garmin Map 76 that is in the cockpit and on. We then navigate point to point using the handheld, but with our small boat I can drop down at any time and check the 9 inch monitor and see our position on it real time and the bearing to the next waypoint and such. If I need to I can change the course (did that going into Pelican Bay) and download the new waypoints to the handheld in less than a minute total.

I've also navigated Ruth into tight anchorages watching the large screen just inside of the cabin. We love it and it has been a big help down here where it is hard to know where you are visually.

And yes I have the large paper charts right there also if needed.

Download the free SeaClear and charts at home and get use to using them and practice downloading that info to the handheld if you have one.

I also have on my site.....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor-navigation/Navigation Aids-Index.html

...instructions for downloading the free USGS Topo Maps for any place in the U.S. and converting them for use with SeaClear. With those you have any inland body of water covered also.

You can find info on all of the above here....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor-navigation/Compter-Nav-index.html

c ya,

Sum

Our Trips to...

Our Mac Pages

Mac Links

 

[Bad Obsession]

I am still getting use to the new windows still so this makes it more difficult. I didn't see where I have a place to calibrate the new charts.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Bad, you don't "calibrate" them, you "register them, telling the program where to find them.

New windows? Windows &. Lower left, next to the start button, open what used to be called File Manager, that's dating me, more likely called Windows Explorer, and work your way to the SeaClear folder. Then check out the subfolders and see where the program suggests you put them.

We have no idea where they may be currently residing on YOUR computer, since we weren't there when you downloaded 'em.

 

[higgs]

On Seaclear: I put all my charts into a folder on my desk top. From Seaclear, choose "file" then go to "charts". From there you can choose "Not Listed" and it will give you the usual options of where to look. go to your desktop and choose your file of charts and you will be able to choose what you want.

 

[JonnyQuest]

Nice simple chartplotter cockpit mount, Sumner

Just got back from looking at your Mac(gregor) website and your info on hanging the chartplotter from the lifelines was a great simple idea.

I do not have a chartplotter yet and am of course going to overthink the options some more before doing anything . Liked the looks of flush mounting a chartplotter in the forward cockpit/cabin bulkhead, but understand the limitations in being able to see it at that distance from the tiller. Hmm. Didn't care for mounting an arm at foot level in lazarette wall, with it being in the way; ditto for mounting on bench seat backs and cockpit lip (not the gunwale...what is it called?).

Your idea is flexible and not permanent, so it can be undone easily without drill holes to deal with.

Any improvement ideas (wish-I-woulda's) that you have thought of for your hanging mount if you were to do it again? I was thinking an inverted U-shaped base to sit over the cockpit lip (?) to keep the unit from swinging to and fro on the lifeline? Or does it not really swing enough to be a bother?

Any other neat/novel ideas from others on how they mounted their chartplotter in their tiller cockpit?

Thanks for posting the link to your site.

JQ

You can find info on all of the above here....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor-navigation/Compter-Nav-index.html

 

[Snotter]

An iPad or smart phone can be afixed with velcro.

 

[sidneyK]

I use SeaClear II (free), USGlobalSat-BU353 (36.95 on amazon),and a 7in. TFT LCD monitor/tv with VGA to the lap top(online for about 60.00). This set up works well for me with the monitor and a wireless mouse on the helm. The only down side is the splash when the sea is high. I use a plastic bag and it is still working .

 

[robertsapp]

Take one old laptop. The Dell lattitude D600 mentioned previously is a great one. Add the maximum amount of RAM the system supports. RAM is cheap, and the performance difference between an older system running 256 or 512Mb and taking it up to 2 or 4 Gb is dramatic. Download the free OpenCPN software. Beats the daylights out of Seaclear, supports both raster and vector charts, and doesn't require you to register charts first in order to use them, just point to the directory where you've put them. Download free charts from the NOAA site. Cruise Amazon for a cheap USB GPS hockey puck. Put it all together, turn it on, and you'll have a sweet navigation system for very little coin. If any of the above sounds daunting to you, then you'll be way ahead just sucking it up and spending the money to buy a real chartplotter, because it will have 'just turn it on' simplicity. Any laptop based navigation system will need occasional diddling with Com ports, settings, reboots, etc. Real geeks expect and even like that sort of thing, but if you're a technophobe it can be upsetting.

 

[Sumner]

.......Your idea is flexible and not permanent, so it can be undone easily without drill holes to deal with.

Any improvement ideas (wish-I-woulda's) that you have thought of for your hanging mount if you were to do it again? I was thinking an inverted U-shaped base to sit over the cockpit lip (?) to keep the unit from swinging to and fro on the lifeline? Or does it not really swing enough to be a bother?...
JQ

This is the first trip that we have used the Cuda on the lifeline and have been out about 2 weeks now. To this point it has worked even better than we thought it would and would do it again without changes. It is far more flexible in how you can view it vs. the old one that was in a fixed location.

Ruth can see it easily while on the tiller and that helps when we are in shallow water looking for a place to anchor with me up on the bow. At night I can pull it forward up to the cabin where I can stay below and reach out and turn it on to check our depth as we swing on anchor and the tide goes out.

I wonder how the cables will hold up over the long haul. I plan on making up a second set and have them on board just in case we would ever have a problem. If they hold up for a couple years even then the cost of replacing them would be well worth the convenience of viewing the unit.

We have been running it in the "map" mode and not in the sonar mode, although you can run a split screen. You can overlay data on the screen in about 4 sizes of text. We have the depth displayed at the top in the largest font and below that speed and below that different items depending on what is important at the time.

I think for $200 it is a great buy, but wouldn't want it as my only GPS device on board. One reason we bought it was that it will output our position in NEMA to the Standard Horizon VHF that has DSC and it has been doing that fine. The only thing that I really wish it would have is NEMA input so that I could send waypoints to it via SeaClear like we can to the handheld Garmin. You can manually input waypoints, but that is a pain and we don't do it.

The manual implies that it comes with the NEMA output cable, but that isn't true and you have to buy that separate. We just got ours before we left since the cables where on back-order for a couple months. The cable was about $20 from Defender. I had to add to the length of that cable and the power cable to mount it like I did. The depth transducer cable was long enough.

One added benefit is that while trailering or if you are worried about someone taking it you just unplug the cables from the back and unclip the unit from the line and take it below.

If anyone else is interested here is the link to the mod....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor-navigation/Cuda 350.html

Good luck,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

Mac Links

 

[Sumner]

...... Download the free OpenCPN software. Beats the daylights out of Seaclear, supports both raster and vector charts, and doesn't require you to register charts first in order to use them, just point to the directory where you've put them...........

Good suggestions. I have OpenCPN and SeaClear on the computer, but for some reason keep going back to the SeaClear. Even with OpenCPN I like the raster charts better, probably a personal preference.

I'm interested in the features you like in the one vs. the other. The biggest difference I noticed at first was I could use the OpenCPN quicker and it was more intuitive and yes having to figure out how to get the charts to be seen was a little frustrating at first. Once I got past that though I like the SeaClear better.

Thanks,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

Mac Links

 

[Rick D]

My Experience

First, I sail in SoCal where there is little need for a chart plotter in the cockpit. At night or pea soup, I'm using radar a lot more than the chart plotter. Second, I have two hand held GPS's, two chart books, three wide-area charts and an older Raymarine B&W chartplotter at the nav station. All the stuff I use sometimes since it serves a different purpose, but the chartplotter is what talks to the autopilot and sends the NEMA data to the radar for current and waypoint info.

I have used a laptop for a number of years and prefer it in some measure to the chartplotter. My first one had a very powerful commercial software package, but when I got MS XP on another computer, it was obsolete. (Gives you an idea how long I was using it.) So, I downloaded SeaClear and all the applicable NOAA charts. I use a separate GPS bud that is in one of my overhead ports. After a while, I downloaded Open CPN. Each program has advantages and disadvantages. I like the visuals on Open CPN and AIS display better than SeaClear. However, I find the data displays preferable on SeaClear. (I have a single-channel Smart Radio AIS receiver inputting to the laptop.) Neither application gives you magnetic information, so you have to compute it, and the waypoint and routing could be easier.

The first laptop was a Toshiba, the second a Dell, the third a Toshiba and the current one an ASUS netbook that lives full time on the boat. I am going to swap out the main salon TV for one that will take the VGA signal from the netbook so that I can have the display on the TV when I am under power and if I feel like it.

Eventually, I'll probably set up my netbook to output NEMA for the autopilot etal. I don't see me staying in the chartplotter market. I'm not worried about the netbook tanking since I have plenty of back up, it's one fifth to one tenth the cost of the current generation of chartplotters, and I like it better. It also lives below. I may move to a paid software, but I don't feel any rush to do so. There are a lot of bigger power boats navigating strictly by PC- based systems and have for some time.

Good luck, but have a back up.

 

[rgranger]

ipad????

GGrizzard's question is a good one and I was hoping to see a discussion of the pros and cons of using an ipad with all of the new navigation apps that apple has. I've been considering this option for myself. I'm still using charts and a hand held GPS, (I almost never turn on the GPS) but the i-apps look attractive. I have a cousin who has the weather radar app on his iphone and he does a lot of shrimping. He says he can get reception 2 miles off shore and checks the weather radar on his phone regularly. Seems like a nice way to go. Anyone care to chime in on using an ipad computer for nav & weather. I'd love to hear from people who have tried it and either love or hate it.

 

[ffaubert]

I don't own one and haven't tried it but I find the more "portable" something is, the more chance there is to drop, sit/step on or soak it.

Of course there is always the hilarious "fumble-fingering" it overboard. This always brings out the laughs on my boat (it's strange that it doesn't seem that darn funny to me:cussing. YMMV.

 

[Snotter]

I, too, went the OpenCPN route at first. It was nice software except for one glaring fault--it sucked at controlling my autopilot. For many--maybe even most--this won't be an issue because they don't use an autopilot. Since I traverse many narrow long channels at times, that OpenCPN failed in that respect drove me to buy a used Raymarine C80 that does an outstanding job at controlling my Ray autopilot. I've since bought the following Raymarine used items: radar, sonar, and AIS.

I suspect that the steering algorithm in OpenCPN works better with some boats than others. You would think that since Kalman Filteing is so well documented that everyone writing charting software would be imploying them and that they would work consistantly. I'm not an expert by a long shot but the little engineer in me often wonders about such things.

 

[shemandr]

Take one old laptop. The Dell lattitude D600 mentioned previously is a great one. Add the maximum amount of RAM the system supports. RAM is cheap, and the performance difference between an older system running 256 or 512Mb and taking it up to 2 or 4 Gb is dramatic. Download the free OpenCPN software. Beats the daylights out of Seaclear, supports both raster and vector charts, and doesn't require you to register charts first in order to use them, just point to the directory where you've put them. Download free charts from the NOAA site. Cruise Amazon for a cheap USB GPS hockey puck. Put it all together, turn it on, and you'll have a sweet navigation system for very little coin. If any of the above sounds daunting to you, then you'll be way ahead just sucking it up and spending the money to buy a real chartplotter, because it will have 'just turn it on' simplicity. Any laptop based navigation system will need occasional diddling with Com ports, settings, reboots, etc. Real geeks expect and even like that sort of thing, but if you're a technophobe it can be upsetting.

Is this what you mean?
http://www.amazon.com/USGlobalSat-B...2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1291989667&sr=1-2
Is this what I should buy?

I have Sea Clear but never added the GPS because ...... I didn't know a good location for the antenna. Can I just place the puck somewhere with a sky view and have GPS on my Laptop with SeaClear?

Thanks to all for an eye opening thread!

 

[kloudie1]

That is it, Andrew.. Mine is that one and it works inside the cabin without a sky view. I usually sit it on the dinette table.. next to the computer..

 

[Bill Roosa]

Geeks are invited

OpenCPN is what we like to call in the linux world available for upgrade. they are looking for suggestions to improve the code and if you know how to code you are invited to participate. The links are available on their site.
With that said what else would you like to see besides the following:
Display of instrument data (both nmea and Seatalk interfaces would be nice) in tear off windows that i can place where I want.
A "racing sailboat" plug-in that displays true & apparent wind, VMG, wind speed....in the same fashion that boat SOG is now displayed (graphically)
Better control of the auto pilot (types please and protocols used if known)
A GPS "satellites in view" on a graphic so I can see if my antenna is being blocked from one part of the sky. Important in diagnosing $40 puck antenna placement.
A better way to manage my waypoints. Now when I upgrade all the old ones go away and I have to reenter. Something like a waypoint file that can be imported.
A "time hack" button on the logbook that writes all the nav data when I press it after making an entry. Also a way to suppress the noise writes about the unit turning on and reading maps and such. Good for diagnostics but I don't need it much beyond that.

I believe they have a fledgling AIS interface and someone is working on an anchor alarm.