Lithium Batteries

Feb 6, 1998
11,722
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
I have been monitoring my new LFP batteries for a few months now. 2) 100 Ah LIFEPo4 smart batteries, My only real issue is that the 2 batteries generally don’t have the same SOC, except maybe after charging them independently at 14.6 volts (per mfg recommendation).

But despite the SOC issue, the batteries work well and typically share the house load just fine, and almost always have the same voltage . After a sail…
View attachment 234412 View attachment 234412
And today after sailing 3.5 hours…
View attachment 234414 View attachment 234415

I have yet to have any concerns about heat or fire with these batteries.

Greg
Impossible to help without brand/model... Keep in mind the accuracy of the SoC counters in the BMS are not pin point accurate they are a guide. If you have multiple batts in parallel you will want a shunt based BMS & balanced bank wiring. Always start with well balanced batts before wiring in parallel. Tap on the round V button and show us the cell balance. You do not want to be charging at 14.6V as this is the absolute max. 14.2V is far safer...
 
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Feb 6, 1998
11,722
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Yes, these are a new set of 2) Humsienk 100Ah 12v smart batteries. Yes, they have Bluetooth, so I can monitor the status.

They are wired to the house load only, and are NOT charged at all by the alternator.

L ike I mentioned, HumsiENK gave me the charge parameters to “equalize” the batteries before connecting them in parallel. This was supposed to get the. Both 100 SOC and same voltage. That is not my daily charge profile. I am using a Victron charger with a Li-Ion profile.

Unfortunately, the HumsiENK app will not display the individual cell voltage. They told me they are working on it (apparently in conjunction with WattCycle), but not available yet.

i don’t think that the both of the BMs’s are shutting off at any given point. But you will see some times where one or the other battery is not contributing to the load. Usually when the load is very light. But one battery is always keeping the lights and radio on…

I have been one the hook for 2 days (going on second night tonight) and have been monitoring the battery status in a spreadsheet. I will share that if anyone cares. I don’t really have a way to charge when off shore power, except to jump the start battery to the house bank when the engine is on and the alternator is charging the starter battery. Not very efficient, and today, I motored a total of 30 minutes.

Home tomorrow and back on shore power.

Greg
Humsienk batts have over-charge protection in both BT & non BT batts, just like Wattcycle. Wattcycle is extremely responsive and already has a fix I don't believe Humsienk has addresed it yet as these are loss-leader batts.
 
Jan 7, 2011
5,786
Oday 322 East Chicago, IN
Humsienk batts have over-charge protection in both BT & non BT batts, just like Wattcycle. Wattcycle is extremely responsive and already has a fix I don't believe Humsienk has addresed it yet as these are loss-leader batts.
Oddly, when I wrote to HumsiENK about an updated app, I got a response from WattCycle…

Is there any connection between these 2 companies that you are aware of?

IMG_4702.jpeg


Separately, here is the latest note I have received from HumsiENK…

The issue you’re seeing with batteries not staying perfectly in sync when paralleled is a common phenomenon across lithium batteries. Our team is already working on optimizing the app to improve monitoring and ease of use.

Impossible to help without brand/model... Keep in mind the accuracy of the SoC counters in the BMS are not pin point accurate they are a guide. If you have multiple batts in parallel you will want a shunt based BMS & balanced bank wiring. Always start with well balanced batts before wiring in parallel. Tap on the round V button and show us the cell balance. You do not want to be charging at 14.6V as this is the absolute max. 14.2V is far safer...
The 14.6 v charge was only to try and get both batteries ( charged independently) to 100% SOC before wiring them in parallel. This instruction came from Humsienk. They also said limit the amps to 5. Charge for a couple of hours.

It seemed to help.

When I was out this week, this was the state of the batteries after charging…
Both batteries at the same voltage and a % difference in SOC
IMG_4672.png IMG_4671.png

After sailing, and before I put them back on the charger…identical.
IMG_4686.png IMG_4687.png

Greg
 
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Feb 6, 1998
11,722
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Oddly, when I wrote to HumsiENK about an updated app, I got a response from WattCycle…

Is there any connection between these 2 companies that you are aware of?

View attachment 234423

Separately, here is the latest note I have received from HumsiENK…

The issue you’re seeing with batteries not staying perfectly in sync when paralleled is a common phenomenon across lithium batteries. Our team is already working on optimizing the app to improve monitoring and ease of use.


The 14.6 v charge was only to try and get both batteries ( charged independently) to 100% SOC before wiring them in parallel. This instruction came from Humsienk. They also said limit the amps to 5. Charge for a couple of hours.

It seemed to help.

When I was out this week, this was the state of the batteries after charging…
Both batteries at the same voltage and a % difference in SOC
View attachment 234430 View attachment 234431

After sailing, and before I put them back on the charger…identical.
View attachment 234433 View attachment 234432

Greg
They are the same company and use the same contracted manufacturer. As I mentioned above Humsienk is their loss leader line. Built similarly, but Humsienk gets lower cost components and most of the tech support team is focused on their WC premium line..
 
Jan 7, 2011
5,786
Oday 322 East Chicago, IN
They are the same company and use the same contracted manufacturer. As I mentioned above Humsienk is their loss leader line. Built similarly, but Humsienk gets lower cost components and most of the tech support team is focused on their WC premium line..
Thanks Rod. I wasn’t aware of the connection.

Greg
 

Johann

.
Jun 3, 2004
540
Leopard 39 Pensacola
For those of you that have, or are considering Battleborn 100Ah batteries have a look at these videos. Apparently the plastic plate to which the positive post is bolted can deform and cause a loss of conductivity. Without Bluetooth you may not realize a failure with multiple batteries in parallel.


The Lithionics engineer describes the issue in this video (at 1:45):

 
Jan 7, 2011
5,786
Oday 322 East Chicago, IN
To close out my experience with the HumsiENK 100 Ah Smart Max batteries…

I returned them and requested a refund.

While I had to play around with keeping the 2 batteries “equalized” while in parallel, I thought that they worked pretty well.

Humsienk also just released an update to their app that allowed me to see individual cell voltages ( that feature was not in the first version of the App I got). So this was helpful…
IMG_4725.png IMG_4724.png IMG_4726.png

But the reason I returned them was that when I did a capacity test on these 100 Ah batteries, I was only getting around 90 Ah. I ran the test a few times, on each battery. I also confirmed with another guy who tested his a HumsiENK batteries and found a similar capacity.

Humsienk, to their credit, offered to take them back and refund my purchase. They paid for the return shipping via FedEx. I just had to box them up and drop them off.

Not sure what I will do next season. I will be following developments in LFP technology and see what is available.

I should point out that my friend also tested the Group 24 100 Ah Humsienk and he got 102 or so Ah.


Greg
 
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Apr 5, 2009
3,193
Catalina '88 C30 tr/bs Oak Harbor, WA
To close out my experience with the HumsiENK 100 Ah Smart Max batteries…

I returned them and requested a refund.

While I had to play around with keeping the 2 batteries “equalized” while in parallel, I thought that they worked pretty well.

Humsienk also just released an update to their app that allowed me to see individual cell voltages ( that feature was not in the first version of the App I got). So this was helpful…
View attachment 234527 View attachment 234528 View attachment 234529

But the reason I returned them was that when I did a capacity test on these 100 Ah batteries, I was only getting around 90 Ah. I ran the test a few times, on each battery. I also confirmed with another guy who tested his a HumsiENK batteries and found a similar capacity.

Humsienk, to their credit, offered to take them back and refund my purchase. They paid for the return shipping via FedEx. I just had to box them up and drop them off.

Not sure what I will do next season. I will be following developments in LFP technology and see what is available.

I should point out that my friend also tested the Group 24 100 Ah Humsienk and he got 102 or so Ah.


Greg
If your cells were balanced at the top, you can see the loss of capacity with the 110mv imbalance. That is a lot and it will be considerably more as you get down to the 2.5v LVP voltage.
 

dLj

.
Mar 23, 2017
4,600
Belliure 41 Back in the Chesapeake
For those of you that have, or are considering Battleborn 100Ah batteries have a look at these videos.
Don't know why you just called out Battleborn in this post - that was not a Battleborn battery they were comparing to..

And I'm not getting into the "info-mercial" side of that video...

dj
 

Johann

.
Jun 3, 2004
540
Leopard 39 Pensacola
Don't know why you just called out Battleborn in this post - that was not a Battleborn battery they were comparing to.
The initial post was asking about battery brands. Battleborn was recommended by a few. Then I saw a FB post where a guy with 14 100Ah Battleborn batteries has lost the majority of his capacity. Did you watch the FB video link? Those are Battleborn 100Ah batteries and they are constructed exactly like the battery in the Lithionics video… maybe its a clone, but that’s why I linked the video. In any case if you have these batteries, or are considering them it is good information to have.

Here is a photo from one of the 14 BB batteries that failed and was cut open. You can see that the scorching on the nut that connects to the brass positive post. The post is loose from the plastic deforming and the high resistance caused the scorching and loss of conductivity.
1759071582020.png
 
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Jun 17, 2022
345
Hunter 380 Comox BC
The initial post was asking about battery brands. Battleborn was recommended by a few. Then I saw a FB post where a guy with 14 100Ah Battleborn batteries has lost the majority of his capacity. Did you watch the FB video link? Those are Battleborn 100Ah batteries and they are constructed exactly like the battery in the Lithionics video… maybe its a clone, but that’s why I linked the video. In any case if you have these batteries, or are considering them it is good information to have.

Here is a photo from one of the 14 BB batteries that failed and was cut open. You can see that the scorching on the nut that connects to the brass positive post. The post is loose from the plastic deforming and the high resistance caused the scorching and loss of conductivity.
View attachment 234548
A bit out of context??? Not sure that bashing a brand with that one photo and no background info is appropriate or useful to the present discussion.

How were the BB batteries used causing the melted insulator? in what application? What size cable was attached to them? What kind of terminals were cripmed on those wires? Were stainless bolts/washers used that could have caused the terminal to overheat (stainless is very poor conductor, often a washer ends up where it shouldn't and can cause a lot of heat/ resistance and voltage drop)? How much current was being drawn from them?

Was the video in the previous post posted by a user comparing 2 products or from a competitor to Battleborn? Are they comparing a 5 year old battery design to a 5 year old battery design or a brand new battery to a 5 year old design? Guess what, things change. Battleborn has a brand new line of products (Smart - aka with Dragonfly Intel module). That video is like comparing a 2025 EV to a 2015 EV .... what's the point? Of course newer design is likely to be better for an innovative product....
 
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Johann

.
Jun 3, 2004
540
Leopard 39 Pensacola
A bit out of context??? Not sure that bashing a brand with that one photo and no background info is appropriate or useful to the present discussion.
I am not bashing BB, just posting information on a potential point of failure in one type of their many batteries. The original post was asking about battery brands so I think that information is appropriate.

How were the BB batteries used causing the melted insulator? in what application? What size cable was attached to them? What kind of terminals were cripmed on those wires? Were stainless bolts/washers used that could have caused the terminal to overheat (stainless is very poor conductor, often a washer ends up where it shouldn't and can cause a lot of heat/ resistance and voltage drop)? How much current was being drawn from them?
Looks like a solid install, except for the Mega fuse AIC. But this could have been installed before TE-13. The setup is 14 BB10012s each wired to a Lynx distributor. There at two 5kVA Quattros capable of 8kW continuous. So under 50A per battery plus DC loads, but the BMS should protect from overcurrent. They are rated at 100A continuous.
1759093268971.png


Was the video in the previous post posted by a user comparing 2 products or from a competitor to Battleborn? Are they comparing a 5 year old battery design to a 5 year old battery design or a brand new battery to a 5 year old design? Guess what, things change. Battleborn has a brand new line of products (Smart - aka with Dragonfly Intel module). That video is like comparing a 2025 EV to a 2015 EV .... what's the point? Of course newer design is likely to be better for an innovative product....
The video from the FitRV was at the Lithionics factory. If you watch Will Prowse BB10012 tear down you can see the design is the same as the battery in the video. I just found it interesting that the engineer points out the plastic as a weak point and then we see the issue in the field. If I was considering or had the BB10012 I would like to know this. I don’t think I would run close to 100A maybe 30-50A and verify the loads are balanced for batteries in parallel.
 
Jun 17, 2022
345
Hunter 380 Comox BC
I am not bashing BB, just posting information on a potential point of failure in one type of their many batteries. The original post was asking about battery brands so I think that information is appropriate.


Looks like a solid install, except for the Mega fuse AIC.
Nothing wrong with Mega fuses. If each 100Ah battery has it's own Mega fuse (2000 AIC @ 32V, lots more at 12V), then it meets ABYC requirements (1500 AIC), as per Table 3B (ABYC E-13).

But this could have been installed before TE-13. The setup is 14 BB10012s each wired to a Lynx distributor. There at two 5kVA Quattros capable of 8kW continuous. So under 50A per battery plus DC loads, but the BMS should protect from overcurrent. They are rated at 100A continuous.
View attachment 234556


The video from the FitRV was at the Lithionics factory. If you watch Will Prowse BB10012 tear down you can see the design is the same as the battery in the video. I just found it interesting that the engineer points out the plastic as a weak point and then we see the issue in the field. If I was considering or had the BB10012 I would like to know this. I don’t think I would run close to 100A maybe 30-50A and verify the loads are balanced for batteries in parallel.
The photo provided above clearly shows heavy corrosion on the wire lugs. That will cause resistance and heat. There is no fault to the battery here. This lack of maintenance or installation error would cause heat and resistance on any installation, regardless of the brand of battery. What is the white powder? Looks like dried saltwater residue... Simple user error.

Tens of thousands of happy BB users would prove a single video / and a single case of failure a poor decision point reference for anyone considering their products. Thanks again for posting useless information that is not aligned with what the OP asked. Proving anything by a single google search and cherry picking the most biased result possible is not how we help each other out on this forum.

Your reasoning is the same as saying: "Ford had a recall, never buy a Ford!". A single failure, due to unconfirmed reasons, is not a reason to bash a solid, reputable brand that has been endorsed by tens of thousands through their shear market share. One could probably do the same for any brand of any product out there. Complete waste of electrons....

1759102914905.png
 
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Johann

.
Jun 3, 2004
540
Leopard 39 Pensacola
Nothing wrong with Mega fuses. If each 100Ah battery has it's own Mega fuse (2000 AIC @ 32V, lots more at 12V), then it meets ABYC requirements (1500 AIC), as per Table 3B (ABYC E-13).
Table 3B in E-11 does not apply to LFP. Look at the table title in the 2025 version and note 2 in the previous version.

The photo provided above clearly shows heavy corrosion on the wire lugs. That will cause resistance and heat.
Well then I think one would expect scorching on the wire lugs and battery post outside the battery and not on the nut and battery post inside the battery.

I never said not to buy BB batteries. This post started with a question about brands. There have been comments about issues with multiple brands. Epoch, Wattcycle, HumsiENK, and more. I commented on an issue pointed out in a teardown video of a BB battery, and a failure that seems related. You seem to have taken it personally… it’s not.