I'll Never go to Florida Again

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May 27, 2012
1,152
Oday 222 Beaver Lake, Arkansas
I dont have any first hand experience to offer as a sailor, and certainly none from Florida, but based on what has been posted here over the years there is not likely any other state in our Union which sees as much transient boat traffic as Florida.

And its just as easy to read, as well as assume, that some percentage of that traffic includes some rather undesirable people that most of us, regardless of where we live, wouldnt care to share any of our space with.

I can imagine that local shore police see a lot of crap that doesnt get enough press, people aboard ugly boats living like pigs, dumping raw sewage, poaching fish, invading protected waters, harassing indigenous wildlife as well as other people, and simply being crude and vulgar, you name it. And y'all know this is true. And being true, when the more decent among us come sailing through, we likely have some angry eyes on us. You can just hear them saying "oh, here comes another one". And we can equally imagine that some of us, upon being confronted by a local police officer, cop an attitude. Why wouldnt the newer and pretty 40 footer get the nod over some old 30 foot antique, when its the cheap old boats the trash generally live on?

We took a scenic flight around Key West in 2006, "Dans High Sky something or other", his slogan was "get high in the keys". One of the more remarkable things we saw were long linear scars along the coral sea bottom from sailboats that were pushed from hurricane winds, and just dozens and dozens of abandoned sailboat wrecks. Some of those scars ran for a mile or more, some for several miles. And there were hundreds and hundreds of those scars.

Like any community that has some event that brings tourists, there will always be some negative effect. Around here we have "Bikes Blues and BBQ", which last October brought over 800,000 Harleys to Fayetteville and the surrounding area for a weekend of cruising and fun. But its only a weekend. I can tell you, I like the sound of a Harley, even the rather load ones. But after three days of constant Harleys passing our place 24 hours around the clock, I am ready for them to go home.

Florida has boaters coming from as far away as Canada and the Great lakes, the entire eastern seaboard, the entire Mississippi water shed, the western gulf all the way to south Texas, and miles in between plus Europe and points south, and they don't just show up for a weekend, they stay for months. If Florida residents are getting tired of some "us", it's on us to make sure we dont add to their problems. Lets make sure we don't act like angry Pirates and do all we can to discourage any among us who are. Florida is a beautiful state, but it wont stay that way on its own unless we all work together to help Florida out.
 
Jan 27, 2008
3,045
ODay 35 Beaufort, NC
Anchor,
You make a good point but now take your line of reasoning to the population of Florida. Almost the entire state is a bunch of nomads that relocated there, Amongst the population is a bunch of undesirables living in trashy places, rampant criminal behavior, drugs and drug smuggling. Cuban refugees released from Castros prisons and mental hospitals. What do the indigenous people think of all these masses that have decided to turn their state into something other than what they once knew? So given this big mess on land why is the state choosing to single out boaters for this massive effort to discourage tourism? It really comes down to just being a shakedown, if you want to enjoy the place you have to pay for it.
 
Apr 29, 2011
134
Finnsailer 38 Massachusetts
The problem with Florida marine police stopping boats from out of state is simple. Every law enforcement division even remotely close to the water wants to have a big marine patrol boat so they get to go out on the water and do something interesting. There are lots of them, and then once they have the big boat and big gas bill they need to show something for their efforts, which results in lots of extra checking of boats for something, anything they can write them up for. Out of state boats are much less likely to be operated by some local person who will complain about the harassment. I once was waiting for a bridge to open and five different patrol boats, from five different agencies were all circling checking every boat that was waiting. The only one stopped and cited was a dinghy crossing the ICW that didn't have numbers or something. I have been stopped in my sailboat and told it was because of excessive wake! That was near Jupiter after I had been subjected to enormous powerboat wakes for miles, but as an out-of-state sailor I was easier game. When I reported an oil slick in the ICW one time the marine patrol came out and insisted on boarding and inspecting my boat, because the obvious source, a tug pushing a barge, would probably have been too much of a pain to bring in. They just don't have enough to do, and there are lots of them. By contrast, in Roger's Maine you might go weeks without seeing a law enforcement boat on the water. The same exact problem exists on the Hudson River--too many police with too little real work to do, and big boats that need to be justified.
 
Nov 22, 2008
3,562
Endeavour 32 Portland, Maine
The problem with Florida marine police .....
This is the best and most insightful description of the problem that I have seen. The conjunction of homeland security money for boats and the Florida law enforcement culture has produced a monster.
 
Apr 29, 2011
134
Finnsailer 38 Massachusetts
One way to avoid some of the hassles is to move on days when everyone else is boating, namely weekends. There is so much nonsense going on then that it gives the marine patrol something real to deal with and you can mostly go on your way undisturbed in a sailboat just passing through, though you have to deal with lots of excessive wakes. The funny thing is that if you report some real problem they mostly ignore it. I was waked so badly once that green water swept the decks of my 38-foot motorsailor and flooded the cabin down below, completely soaking our bedding and leaving inches of water flowing above the floorboards. This was within the ICW. The Coast Guard said there was nothing they could do unless I wanted to report injuries. Another time I reported a big waker who nearly capsized several small fishing boats outside of the channel. Again--nothing could be done unless someone was hurt. The mindset of some of these boatowners was epitomized a few years ago when some demo boat at the Miami boat show went up and down the ICW causing thousands of dollars of damage until they were finally mercifully stopped. It came out later that the factory reps. did it on purpose in order to get the publicity.
 
Oct 17, 2011
2,808
Ericson 29 Southport..
This is the best and most insightful description of the problem that I have seen. The conjunction of homeland security money for boats and the Florida law enforcement culture has produced a monster.
And the "law enforcement" being promoted to their highest level of incompetence.

As usual..
 
May 27, 2012
1,152
Oday 222 Beaver Lake, Arkansas
I once was waiting for a bridge to open and five different patrol boats, from five different agencies were all circling checking every boat that was waiting. The only one stopped and cited was a dinghy crossing the ICW that didn't have numbers or something. I have been stopped in my sailboat and told it was because of excessive wake!
Like I said, I have no first hand experience sailing Florida. But youve added a different dynamic than Roger hadnt stated. His issue was with the confusing statute. Your discussing actual harassment. Thats a completely different issue.

The best way to deal with that, is to totally boycott the state, kind of what Roger suggested I guess. I think if the word spread through this forum, and spilled into the others, if a large enough number of boaters stayed away for a season, there would be a change. There are a lot of out of state boaters who bring a great deal of revenue into Florida. Hitting them where it hurts is the best way to get their attention.

I still stand on my comments that we all need to have great respect for the areas we travel through. We need to Police not only ourselves, but each other as well.
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
since half the cars in ct seem to be registered in fla by their rich snowbird owners in an effort to not pay taxes here, maybe we should retaliate
Cars, trucks, aircraft, etc. are all subject to the same 'grace periods', etc. as regards taxes when you stay for prolonged periods in most other states.

One has to clearly and always remember that citizens who are traveling between and through the various states, especially 'rich' yacht owners, are only a designated preferential prey species for local governments that have 'budget problems'.
 
Apr 29, 2011
134
Finnsailer 38 Massachusetts
I still stand on my comments that we all need to have great respect for the areas we travel through.
Absolutely! Though I am no longer a member of the SSCA, I still believe in their motto: leave a clean wake wherever you go. My commentary had more to do with the other hassle aspects of Florida that can make it unpleasant at times. I have personally never been stopped for no state registration on my big boat, but I have heard and read of many others that were stopped for that. I'm trying now to get some Florida official to clarify exactly what the law is with regard to out-of-state boats and registration requirements.

And, despite my comments, I would still sail there tomorrow if I could. There are still plenty of great places to anchor out, enjoying the beaches and the warm weather and water, and it is the perfect staging area for a trip to the Bahamas or the Caribbean. I have been stopped, boarded, inspected, yelled at, etc., in many different parts of the East Coast of the U.S., including Florida, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Massachusetts, but I was never cited because I was never doing anything wrong. It can be upsetting to be hassled by law enforcement like that when you know there are real criminals out there that could be pursued.
 
Jan 30, 2012
1,123
Nor'Sea 27 "Kiwanda" Portland/ Anacortes
"I'm trying now to get some Florida official to clarify exactly what the law is with regard to out-of-state boats and registration requirements."

Don't follow -- but would be interested in what some Florida official might say.

The statute is cited above many times.

Florida non-resident boats are entitled to be in Florida for 90 days without seeking Florida registration provided: The boat has (1) a foreign state issued title and (2) has a current foreign state issued registration.
also
The boat can also be in Florida for 90 days provided: The boat is (1) documented (USCG issued title) and (2) the boat also has a current foreign state issued registration.

If you have documented vessel and do not have a separate state issued registration you need to register with Florida pronto -- no 90 day grace period.

What is not clear here?
 
Jan 30, 2012
1,123
Nor'Sea 27 "Kiwanda" Portland/ Anacortes
Revenue is the lifeblood of government. Governments have no product to sell and have no means to create anything of value in the business sense.

Thus government passes registration requirements, makes them applicable to its citizens and those from elsewhere in order to raise funds. In short it is this is not a business question - it is a government revenue raising question.

If you came to Oregon you would have to register after 60 days. If I go to California or Washington I have to register after the grace period in those states -- never mind whether I already hold a current foreign state registration.

Why is anybody the slightest bit surprised? This has been going on as to boats and airplanes for a very long time.

Charles
 
Nov 22, 2008
3,562
Endeavour 32 Portland, Maine
If you have documented vessel and do not have a separate state issued registration you need to register with Florida pronto -- no 90 day grace period.
According to the last best opinion Cruiser's Net got, which they are now questioning and seeking clarification about, "pronto" means before you enter the state if you want to be in full compliance with the law. I'll be damned if I'll do paperwork in advance, like it was a foreign country, to visit another U.S. state and one that has created so many hassles for visiting cruisers. There are too many other beautiful places.

I sail into Canada, call them up on the cell phone, and they say "Welcome to Canada". I write down the number they give me and I'm done. Last time, they asked how long I would be there and I said I didn't know, maybe a couple weeks, maybe a couple months. The response? "Have a nice stay in Canada."
 
Feb 20, 2011
7,995
Island Packet 35 Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
According to the last best opinion Cruiser's Net got, which they are now questioning and seeking clarification about, "pronto" means before you enter the state if you want to be in full compliance with the law. I'll be damned if I'll do paperwork in advance, like it was a foreign country, to visit another U.S. state and one that has created so many hassles for visiting cruisers. There are too many other beautiful places.

I sail into Canada, call them up on the cell phone, and they say "Welcome to Canada". I write down the number they give me and I'm done. Last time, they asked how long I would be there and I said I didn't know, maybe a couple weeks, maybe a couple months. The response? "Have a nice stay in Canada."
Now there's a better attitude.
 
Jan 30, 2012
1,123
Nor'Sea 27 "Kiwanda" Portland/ Anacortes
Roger

You are dead right there. Canada boats get different treatment in the US coastal states (special rules in every state as to non US vessels.) However, you get more civilized treatment in Canada than do the Canadians. So at least things are balanced internationaly.

As to the when of it- what does pronto mean -- obviously you have a reasonable time to comply. What is reasonable?

When you can after you get to Florida and just before the harbor patrol issues a ticket.

Charles
 
May 27, 2012
1,152
Oday 222 Beaver Lake, Arkansas
I will admit that initially, I thought Roger was being a sour puss. After reading all this, Florida needs to feel the full brunt of American citizenry using the rights, in this case their pocket book, and take a season off to let THEM (Florida) think about their actions.

There simply is no reason to be treated better by a neighboring country than we are in our own.

I stand behind Roger 100%. Can we get a show of hands? Dont need to call any state officials, let our silence be our voice.
 
Oct 26, 2005
2,057
- - Satellite Beach, FL.
Last year Roger got a case of the a$$ for the whole South over a magazine cover and then about eith SC or GA because his cruising buddys trespassed on someones dock and found an unkind note from the PROPERTY OWNER.
This year it's an inaccurate article he read on the internet that some other stirrer of stinky things worded to sound official.
So, let's break out the torches and pitch forks!
Good job Roger, you got some attention and that's really what this is about isn't it?
 
Dec 19, 2006
5,812
Hunter 36 Punta Gorda
Crowded

So any way florida is getting too crowded with all the people from up north and some stay and some leave and some love it and hate it but I moved from up north and love it here.
nick
 
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Feb 26, 2004
22,782
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
...Good job Roger, you got some attention and that's really what this is about isn't it?
What utter nonsense. Roger has been contributing for all of us for a long time. he found something that seemed out of whack and reported it. Seems like there is some merit in the concern about the inconsistencies in the regulation, to say nothing about the draconian application of "gimme money even though you don't live here" government (not that FL is unique in this stupid approach).

Roger, please keep reporting.

I really wish I could sail to FL, but that ain't gonna happen from where I am anytime soon. I had family in Miami and daysailed out of Coconut Grove, great place.
 
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