I'll Never go to Florida Again

[Roger Long]

Note and update Jan 2015: I recently learned that I have been misinformed multiple times by people who answered my phone inquiries in Maine. With the help of BoatUS, I was able to determine farther up the food chain that Maine will issue a state registration to a documented vessel if requested. In accordance with federal law, you may not affix the state numbers to the hull but you will receive a number and the same paperwork which you can show to the many other states that now require your documented vessel to be state registered in another state if not in theirs. You may get a different answer when you go to your town office to register your documented vessel. If so, ask them to check with Bill Swan at Inland Fisheries and Wildlife.

Original post follows:

Less danger of it now anyway but I just learned this from Cruiser's Net:

1. If your vessel is registered in another state besides Florida, you can operate in Floridian water for up to 90 days without a problem. HOWEVER, if your vessel is Federally Documented, and NOT ALSO state registered, you MUST register it with the state of Florida, or you may be ticketed immediately upon entering Floridian waters. Or, put another way, Federally Documented vessels MUST ALSO be state registered (either with Florida or another state), or you face the possibility of a ticket. By the way, it’s this onerous feature of Florida state law that used to allow the “Venice Water Nazi” to ticket boats coming and going in the city of Venice.

My state (Maine) doesn't register documented vessels so I couldn't comply even if I wanted to. With all the other crap the state deals out to cruisers and beautiful as Georgia is, I'll stay north of the border when I go down again.

I know you can get a "Sojourner's Permit" (see Cruiser's Net) for 90 days but screw'em if I have to do paperwork just to visit their state and leave money there. Ugly state. Not worth it.

http://cruisersnet.net/

 

[kloudie1]

wow.. what a crappy deal ! Since Louisiana requires that I register my documented vessel, I guess they won't bother me .. We don't put the state numbers on, only the registration decal

 

[Delezynski]

WOW!!

I did not know about that!

Greg

 

[alexco38]

Come to Canada. You'll over it.

 

[Delezynski]

Did you look at the application form for the "Sojourner's Permit"?

it's a catch 22!!!! It asks you for your, "Florida street address". And it's mandatory you have one!!!

If I am a "sojourner" just passing through, why would I have a street address?

Greg

 

[RichH]

That's quite contrary to US law, as (at least the last time I looked) as you may NOT have a duel registration of both state and federal registry or it instantly INVALIDATES your federal documentation .... just try to get into many foreign (especially 'french') ports with only 'state registration'; the fines are 'astonishingly' severe.

Venice, Florida has been famous for years of such 'thuggery'. If in fact such crass 'revenue thievery' is still going on, simply stay out of Venice, Florida. I was led to believe that the Venice opportunistic legal-THUG who was doing all this finally retired.

When passing through, I ONLY come into Florida only when absolutely necessary ... less hassle and 'noise' that way.

 

[Roger Long]

Come to Canada. You'll over it.

Oh, I've been there several times. I do love it. It is actually my favorite cruising grounds but a tad rugged this time of year, even for me.

I've been out as far as Halifax, NS and done the whole Saint John river system (all covered in early posts on this fourm) as well as spending time in Passamaquoddy Bay.

I flew into Detroit and went out to Wheatley, ON twice a month to supervise the construction of one of my research vessel. I felt like I was coming home every time I crossed the border.

I'd planned to get all the way out to the end of N.S. this summer but I didn't get to downeast Maine last summer and friend may come up to cruise in company with me so N.S. might have to wait another year.

You are preaching to the choir here.

Everything's up in the air anyway. I need to make some more money and work is seeming interesting after a year and a half of full time cruising. I've already got some meetings in VA and DC. Who knows what this summer will bring.

 

[Buck420]

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
Per :
[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]We are pleased to report that our good friend, Captain Mike Dickens at Paradise Yacht Sales and Service (Fernandina Beach, FL, http://www.paradiseyachtsales.net/CruisingCenter2.html) provides what cruisers need to obtain one of these permits on his web site. Follow the links below.

One of the points made in the above link was : ...

" Out of state vessels can enter and remain in Florida waters for 90 days without doing anything " ...

I would ask... How can Fla law enforcement determine if you have been in Fla waters longer than 90 days ??? OK, maybe if you tie up at a marina for more than 3 months, but if you are traveling thru, who's to say how long you have been there ???

I've been back and forth to Fla almost every year for the past 12 years and never even hear of this issue, much less been fined. OK, I've never been to Venice, and will stear clear of it. Maybe I've just been lucky, but, I suspect that this is mostly used to get rid of derelict boats.
[/FONT]

 

[Roger Long]

you may NOT have a duel registration of both state and federal registry or it instantly INVALIDATES your federal documentation ....

I think a compromise must have been reached because I see lots of apparently documented MD boats with numbers on them. I think that the feds only proscribe you from putting any other registration numbers affixed to the hull. Thus, the number boards you see on lifelines all over MD.

Maine does have excise tax collected locally and provides a decal to show you paid it. I don't think this counts as a registration number as far as the feds are concerned. I wouldn't want to be trying to convince some cracker Florida jackboot that the Maine decal, which doesn't say "Tax" on it anywhere IIFC and doesn't come with any "State" paperwork, or any paperwork, constitutes a registration.

I'll be sorry not to see Green Cover Springs and the Saint John again but there is more and better cruising in GA, NC, and SC than I could use up in the rest of this lifetime.

I say again, "Screw'em" The attitudes of the state towards boaters and cruisers are the only good thing I can think of about rising sea levels.

 

[RichH]

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
Per :
[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]We are pleased to report that our good friend, Captain Mike Dickens at Paradise Yacht Sales and Service (Fernandina Beach, FL, http://www.paradiseyachtsales.net/CruisingCenter2.html) provides what cruisers need to obtain one of these permits on his web site. Follow the links below.

One of the points made in the above link was : ...

" Out of state vessels can enter and remain in Florida waters for 90 days without doing anything " ...

I would ask... How can Fla law enforcement determine if you have been in Fla waters longer than 90 days ??? OK, maybe if you tie up at a marina for more than 3 months, but if you are traveling thru, who's to say how long you have been there ???

I've been back and forth to Fla almost every year for the past 12 years and never even hear of this issue, much less been fined.
Maybe I've just been lucky, but, I suspect that this is mostly used to get rid of derelict boats.
[/FONT]

You need or should have a physical paper trail of written tangible receipts that document your timing of actual location in or out of the state of Florida. If you don't, there's no way you can 'defend' yourself if the situation so arises. Most foreign flagged vessels that 'stay' in FL simply go out beyond the territorial limits, do 'business' thats duly recorded, reenter properly ... and are 'good to go' for another 90 days. Not many 'big' boats in Florida these days that are US flagged ... and for quite good reason.

 

[Merlin Clark]

The state claims out to 3 miles. Just make sure you log it!

 

[RichH]

In MD you only pay a 'usage tax' if the vessel is documented ... the 'use tax' ID sticker is affixed to the hull/mast, etc. and signifies that the taxes are paid. The initial 'usage tax' is calculated based on how much state sales tax your already paid in any other state, no sales tax paid elsewhere and you get the full 6% plus fines and interest applied if not paid before the end of the 'grace period'. The grace period starts from the second a boat enters Maryland, even if 'trucked in'.

A great problem arose, last year when the state of MD in its infinite wisdom was threatening to apply a 'personal property tax' at ~5% PER YEAR of assessed value ... and most of the 'big' boats simply decided to move to outside MD. The catastrophic potential loss of marine business would have decimated much of the local economy ... the balance of the MD economy is mostly federal government workers 'sleeping' in MD ... the marine industry went into revolt, the state government partly relented, but with a hefty increase in the 'use tax' (sticker). MD returns 'zip' of the use taxes for 'waterway' expenses.

BTW - when in MD and especially in Annapolis or Balmr, be SURE that there is a teeny whistle, etc. attached to your PFD ... or BIG fine.

 

[Roger Long]

Not many 'big' boats in Florida these days that are US flagged ... and for quite good reason.

Maine chased most of the mega yachts out with their own version of tax foolishness. They tried to claim that foreign owned vessels hadn't paid tax in any state so owed 5% if they spent more than 30 days there. The tax people saw $$$$ looking at that row of 8 figure boats lined up outside Southwest Harbor and places like that. I went by a year later and there were zip. The fellow at the gas dock said they had been big layoffs as a result.

Maine also tried to claim that residents from non tax states like RI owed the tax unless they could provide an unbroken paper trail showing the boats location for the entire period of ownership if it could be shown to have been in Maine for even a day. The tax drones were eating taxpayer funded lobster rolls in yachting ports with their camera on table.

I've seen the correspondence to a RI boater threatening to put a lien on his boat in RI if he didn't either pay the tax or provide seven years of receipts that few people would keep. This despite the fact that no tax is owed if you bring the boat in after one year of ownership out of state or for less than 30 days the first year. They were clearly trying to panic people into paying tax they didn't actually owe.

In Maine though, it was just a few rogue tax people finding a way to get out of their windowless cubicles in Holton. I've never heard of any other problems for cruisers in the state, unlike Florida where it seems to be one thing after another.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

I know I'm coming late to this party but before everyone gets a knot in their shorts, be warned that isn't the actual policy or practice in Florida.

One must only show that sales tax has been paid. This is true regardless of registration state which has no bearing on the above and there is no "penalty" per se.

If your boat is registered or documted and no sales tax has been paid, Florida requires you pay it here if the boat stays in Florida water.

This is necessary to preclude people from avoiding buying elsewhere and bringing their boat into what most people think is a very good boat venue.

 

[Rick Webb]

Who wants You?

There are too damn many people here anyway.

Especially those who think if it is on the internet it must be true and can't be bothered to check for themselves to be certain.

Your hailing port would need to be in a state that does not register documented boats I am sure.

http://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/FFFVO.pdf

EXEMPTIONS FROM REGISTRATION
​

Vessels exempt from registration include: non-motor
powered vessel less than 16 feet in length, and any nonpowered
canoe, kayak, racing shell, or rowing scull,
regardless of length; vessels used exclusively on private lakes
and ponds; vessels owned by the United States Government;
vessels used exclusively as a ship’s lifeboat; and vessels
covered by numbers in full force and effect which have been
awarded pursuant to federal law or a federally approved
numbering system provided that such vessels are not​

operated in state waters in excess of 90 consecutive days.



EXEMPTIONS FROM TITLING

Vessels exempt from titling include: non-powered
vessels less than 16 feet in length; vessels owned by the
United States Government; federally documented
vessels; vessels used exclusively on private lakes and
ponds; amphibious vessels for which a vehicle title is
issued by the Department of Highway Safety and Motor
Vehicles; vessels used solely for demonstration, testing
or sales promotional purposes by a bona fide dealer or
manufacturer; vessels owned and operated by the state
or its political subdivisions; vessels from a country other
than the U.S., temporarily using the waters of this state
for not more than 90 days and vessels already covered
by registration numbers awarded according to a federally
approved numbering system of another state or by the
United States Coast Guard in a state without a federally
approved numbering system, provided that the vessels
are not operated in Florida waters more than 90​

consecutive days.

 

[alexco38]

There are just too many law school creating way too many lawyers. The guy in Venice might just hate boats. When he got into the powerful position, he revenged.

 

[Roger Long]

Especially those who think if it is on the internet it must be true and can't be bothered to check for themselves to be certain.

If you are sure, please get in touch with Cruiser's Net and set them straight after reading their site. They are usually a pretty reliable source for things like this:

The contact is: CruisingWriter@CruisersNet.net

It's hard even to get solid information from BoatUS.

It's getting to where SBO really needs a legal column with a lawyer who can pin this stuff down. Inner state cruising is becoming more and more of a minefield.

 

[Roger Long]

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]" Out of state vessels can enter and remain in Florida waters for 90 days without doing anything "
[/FONT]

I suspect that Florida's position is that the only way to prove that it is an out of state boat is to have and registration or title from another state. A documented vessel from a non-title state like mine can't be proven to be from anywhere if the state won't accept the owner's legal address as proof.

 

[Rick Webb]

Here is the Citation of the Statute

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...ml&StatuteYear=2010&Title=->2010->Chapter 327


328.58 Reciprocity of nonresident or alien vessels.—The owner of any vessel already covered by a registration number in full force and effect which has been awarded by:
(1) Another state pursuant to a federally approved numbering system of another state;
(2) The United States Coast Guard in a state without a federally approved numbering system; or
(3) The United States Coast Guard for a federally documented vessel with a valid registration in full force and effect from another state,
shall record the number with the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles prior to operating, using, or storing the vessel on the waters of this state in excess of the 90-day reciprocity period provided for in this chapter. Such recordation shall be pursuant to the procedure required for the award of an original registration number, except that no additional or substitute registration number shall be issued if the vessel owner maintains the previously awarded registration number in full force and effect.
History.—s. 1, ch. 59-399; s. 1, ch. 65-361; s. 6, ch. 84-184; s. 57, ch. 96-413; s. 16, ch. 99-289; s. 25, ch. 2009-86.
Note.—Former s. 371.081; s. 327.16.

 

[Merlin Clark]

If you are sure, please get in touch with Cruiser's Net and set them straight after reading their site. They are usually a pretty reliable source for things like this:

The contact is: CruisingWriter@CruisersNet.net

It's hard even to get solid information from BoatUS.

It's getting to where SBO really needs a legal column with a lawyer who can pin this stuff down. Inner state cruising is becoming more and more of a minefield.

Since you started the lynch mob why don't you set them straight Roger?
I am one of those whose heart is not broken by your embargo of our great state.