Stu I hear you, but if your name was not attached to a social security number or associated with an address it would not identify you eithyer. I guess to many boats bare the same or similar names to have them stand up for adequate ID in court. "your honor my boat is named BOAT and I'm not responsible for all those vessel infractions." We have a USCG registration and also a current Florida Registration sticker and we sure have good luck as we have never been hassled about how long we can stay in these waters. Each state has their peculiarities, we just happen to be geographically located for boats heading into or out of the Caribbean to come to our shores. They consider themselves in transit but some linger beyond the 90 days and then feel abused when they are fined for not complying with local laws. To willfully try to circumvent posted regulations is nonsense. I pay my fees and feel no simpathy for those that try to advert them.
I'll Never go to Florida Again
- Thread starter Roger Long
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My boat is USCG documented, and has a Rhode Island Registration and sticker, it does not have any numbers, it does have the boats name AND hailing port, in CG regulation sized letters. I doubt the RI sticker adds any further visible identification to my boat. I would add that most boats do not display their hailing port in proper size, and some do not display it with the name, e.g., the name is on the sides of the hull, but the hailing port is on the stern.
Simply the state registration adds nothing to the boat's identification.
Welcome to the post 9/11 world. A boat bearing no state registration numbers and no state issued registration sticker in Florida waters needs to be intervened promptly in order to determine its rights to be here. Florida just happens to be the gateway for most pleasure boats leaving and entering the country. If we are going to fuss about the current registration requirements and applications we will be pushing towards a National Registration system for boats and operators as being proposed by our Security Agencies in the Federal Government. The states are currently cooperating through their DMV driver licences requirements to flush out illegal alliens. There is more than meets the eye; if you do not want to come to Florida is your prerogative but don't use the current application of boat registration regulations as an excuse.
We have one, it's optional and called "Documentation". One change that is probably coming down the pike is for your documentation number to be displayed outside the hull as fishing boats now have to do with their permit number.
Even if there is some system of making sure that every boat in FL, or anywhere else, has a number on the hull, it will just be more post 911 foolishness and harassment unless they stop and search every vessel to be sure the people and paperwork match up with the number anyone with a computer printer or paint brush could affix to the hull.
I'm sure I could affix fake MD lifeline number boards and a computer generated decal to my boat and cruise through FL for years without being stopped. This is about local revenue for BIU with the opportunity provided by the state. It's no more about security than the TSA foolishness.
I agree that showing USCG documentation numbers is not far in the horizon. I doubt that you would print fake numbers and risk loss of boat and personal freedom so lets forget about that hypothetical situation. Also the money issue is mostly irrelevant as this country moves on money and we all seem to like it to some degree or other. I think the real issue is the encroaching in personnal freedom we have experienced since 9/11. This is not Florida's doing, we may have more chickens running around without a head than some other states, but we happen to be in the front lines. Sure the state collects taxes and gets funding from the Federal Government for security enforcement. I believe "profiling" is being used by the TSA and other agencies as a sensible way to deal with the huge numbers. It is not legal and none will admit but some folks will get "randomly" chosen everytime for whaever they are doing. In today's reality I believe it pays to avoid falling into known and suspected profile criteria. If I know that they are checking into documented vessels not having registration stickers I would get one right away. A clean tidy vessel is less likely to be harassed so is no big deal since I like to keep a boat clean and tidy. Have your vessel inspected by the USCG auxiliary and sport the inspection sticker, its free. Behave in a proper manner and avoid being a public nuisance. By profiling yourself as a law abiding respectable boater you are likely to cruise Florida unencombered but on the other hand anyone wanting to carry a chip on their shoulder and profess their individual rights to do and look as they please, Florida may not be the most accomodating host for them.
It just gets worse and worse
The latest from Cruisers.net (which had this whole issue right in the first place)
The latest from Cruisers.net (which had this whole issue right in the first place)
So, you have to have a physical Florida street address and visit the state in person before you can legally take your boat from a non-registration state across the line. You think this isn't aimed at discouraging cruisers who are not operating from an owned or rented shore base?
Roger, based on the form to be filled out apparently Florida expects us to lie in order to state register our boats from out of state that can't be state registered in the states where we actually keep them the majority of the time!
Why should going to Florida be harder than going to Canada, Mexico, Bahamas, etc.?
Perhaps the solution is a petition to expel Florida from the Union, can we start the petition?
I say this TIC.
Perhaps the solution is a petition to expel Florida from the Union, can we start the petition?
I say this TIC.
It's not easy even if you live in Florida. When I lived aboard in Englewood, FL., I went to the DMV to update my driver's license, because we had sold our house. I gave the PO box number we were using as the change of address, but the clerk said I had to have a street address. I explained that I lived on a boat, and wasn't staying in one place. They would't accept that, so I left without updating the license. Never did change it.
I Think I Know What is Driving This Animosity
So, first as one of those responsible I'd like to say you’re welcome for making George W Bush our Commander in Chief.
Second Roger you are right that the whole state of Florida government apparatus is actively making it their first priority to make you feel unwelcome and to try to keep you out of the state. The $37.43 you would have spent here would have made such a difference in the state’s economy I do not know how we are going to recover. Stay away, good riddance.
So, first as one of those responsible I'd like to say you’re welcome for making George W Bush our Commander in Chief.
Second Roger you are right that the whole state of Florida government apparatus is actively making it their first priority to make you feel unwelcome and to try to keep you out of the state. The $37.43 you would have spent here would have made such a difference in the state’s economy I do not know how we are going to recover. Stay away, good riddance.
Really, why do so many of you Floridians seemingly not care that your state is harassing people from out of state? I would think you would want us to be treated well in your state, the same way we would want you to be treated decently in ours. But as so many in this thread from Florida have stated otherwise, we can take the hint. Your police are only doing what you support yourselves.
I think the state is actively trying to discourage cruisers. Look, if the state set up a program of putting picket boats on the ICW, confiscating every third yacht on some pretext, jailing the occupants, and then sending them back over the border to GA in a bus, there would be a huge outcry and it would be stopped. Six months later, there would again be enough boats transiting the state to support the marina economy. The state is just that much of a draw.
Policy makers mainly hear from two groups. Waterfront home owners who want to look out and see the pristine wilderness of their entitled fantasies and marina owners. These people can take their jobs away; cruisers can't.
It was admitted by one official during the anchor wars that the purpose was to discourage people who weren't spending every night in a marina and to reduce the overall number of out of state boats. They lost that war but all the rest of this is just more of the same.
A boycott isn't going to work. A major objective of all this crap is to create a boycott by traditional cruisers. A secondary objective is to let local jurisdictions "tax" out of state boats to support BIU.
No matter how badly the state treats boaters, it is always going to have more boats than the economy needs or the state can comfortably support. They know that.
Facts matter
The factual information shared on this thread is certainly helpful to anyone headed to FL, and prompted me to clarify the consequences of having my MD registered boat USCG documented.
Speculation/assumptions about personal or governmental motives frankly doesn't add much, and only serves to create unnecessary, and likely unwarranted, off-topic conflict.
Keep in mind that not everyone shares the same sense of humor
The factual information shared on this thread is certainly helpful to anyone headed to FL, and prompted me to clarify the consequences of having my MD registered boat USCG documented.
Speculation/assumptions about personal or governmental motives frankly doesn't add much, and only serves to create unnecessary, and likely unwarranted, off-topic conflict.
Keep in mind that not everyone shares the same sense of humor
We have to keep in mind that 99% of the folks who create and write these laws are probably not boaters themselves, and because we have a democracy it means that an awful lot of elected folks have no real expertise in what they're doing. Unintended consequences are part of a democracy which we have to put up with to gain the other advantages of a representative form of government. Layer our federal system on top, with 50 different states and 50 different sets of laws, and it is a wonder that we can function!
Just for example, New York, where I currrently live, just passed a sweeping gun safety law that does among other things limit the number of bullets allowed in a magazine to seven, but they forgot to make an exception for law enforcement. So, all of a sudden, theoretically every law enforcement officer's sidearm is illegal. I understand that this week or soon they are going to quietly pass a clean up bill to fix this and other mistakes made in the law.
In Florida, I strongly suspect that most officers finding you without a state registration would simply give you a warning and let you proceed on. I think the infamous Venice Water Nazi gave people two weeks to get it fixed. Not ideal, but I have always found if you act courteously, have as many ducks in a row as you can, and don't get angry--just stay persistent--you can usually overcome most bureaucratic snafus. I had to battle with the authorities in Isla Mujeres to let me out of Mexico because it turned out when I checked into the country somewhere else the local guy didn't have me fill out the correct paperwork. I finally ended up in the port captain's office, or whomever the head cheese was, and eventually he closed the door and told me that I was in violation of all sorts of laws but since all I wanted to do was get permission to leave he would grant me my exit papers. It helped that I had my 11-year old Spanish speaking daughter with me. Out came a big stamp and boom, boom, boom everything was made good and away I went.
Just for example, New York, where I currrently live, just passed a sweeping gun safety law that does among other things limit the number of bullets allowed in a magazine to seven, but they forgot to make an exception for law enforcement. So, all of a sudden, theoretically every law enforcement officer's sidearm is illegal. I understand that this week or soon they are going to quietly pass a clean up bill to fix this and other mistakes made in the law.
In Florida, I strongly suspect that most officers finding you without a state registration would simply give you a warning and let you proceed on. I think the infamous Venice Water Nazi gave people two weeks to get it fixed. Not ideal, but I have always found if you act courteously, have as many ducks in a row as you can, and don't get angry--just stay persistent--you can usually overcome most bureaucratic snafus. I had to battle with the authorities in Isla Mujeres to let me out of Mexico because it turned out when I checked into the country somewhere else the local guy didn't have me fill out the correct paperwork. I finally ended up in the port captain's office, or whomever the head cheese was, and eventually he closed the door and told me that I was in violation of all sorts of laws but since all I wanted to do was get permission to leave he would grant me my exit papers. It helped that I had my 11-year old Spanish speaking daughter with me. Out came a big stamp and boom, boom, boom everything was made good and away I went.
Florida
Since living in Florida I see Florida spending $$$$$$ advertising to get people to come and visit more and more $$$$$$ and they depend on People visiting and spending and don't want people mad who come here and they want people to come back and not goe to some other state.
I see many of these people who visit often come back and buy and live here,boaters come here and like it and do the same and those out of staters from up north spend more $$$$$$ than most and Florida loves that but I am sure the locals want to keep Florida a great place and keep it from being ruined.
Nick
Since living in Florida I see Florida spending $$$$$$ advertising to get people to come and visit more and more $$$$$$ and they depend on People visiting and spending and don't want people mad who come here and they want people to come back and not goe to some other state.
I see many of these people who visit often come back and buy and live here,boaters come here and like it and do the same and those out of staters from up north spend more $$$$$$ than most and Florida loves that but I am sure the locals want to keep Florida a great place and keep it from being ruined.
Nick
We Actually Do NOT Care, Much
It is a supply and demand sort of thing. We generally do like meeting people from all over when they come to visit. I have lived all over the world from Thailand to the Philippines to Germany and Libya. I have never tried to tell folks the way they do things is cumbersome unfair or backwards it is their place and they can do things how they want. If I did not like it I could leave (when my tour was over that is).
If you do not like the way things are done down here and are going to get snarky about it stay away. There are plenty of others who accept the place for what it is and are pleasant to be around. We will not miss you.
It is a supply and demand sort of thing. We generally do like meeting people from all over when they come to visit. I have lived all over the world from Thailand to the Philippines to Germany and Libya. I have never tried to tell folks the way they do things is cumbersome unfair or backwards it is their place and they can do things how they want. If I did not like it I could leave (when my tour was over that is).
If you do not like the way things are done down here and are going to get snarky about it stay away. There are plenty of others who accept the place for what it is and are pleasant to be around. We will not miss you.
Floridians would feel different e.g., if Georgia & Alabama decided that because of the international traffic in Florida and its threat to Homeland Security all cars crossing the state border were subject to search and all occupants must an show accepted form of identification as defined by Georgia and Alabama.
If I can cross into Canada with my boat by making a phone call, surely I should be able to enter Florida as easily, perhaps I should bring my passport?
I am sure the Seminoles are hoping everybody else would just leave.
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