Help!! Did I make a huge mistake?

CloudDiver · May 16, 2016

Pics are not only helpful, they are critical. You can post pics directly or use a free photobucket account. I take all my pics with my iphone and just upload them to photobucket without having to do any adjusting/editing/compressing.

Post pics of all the issues listed above and we can all give you some tips. If you are a handy guy, there isn't much on this boat that you can't do yourself.

Stu Jackson · May 16, 2016

We've seen worse. Lotta elbow grease and reading up on appropriate cleaners. The teak & holly potion of the sole looks OK, don't know how that survived while the other wood got damaged.

I used to have a swing keel, but never had to service the keel wire. There are great guys on this forum who can walk you through it. The keel doesn't look all that bad.

You can get a manual online from one of the guys here or a search here or the C22 Association website and figure the running rigging costs easy.

You'll have to redo the simple electrical system, completely.

Good luck.

Leeward Rail · May 16, 2016

I bought a 1987 C22 last spring.
http://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/looking-at-buying-a-c22.170088/
http://forums.sailboatowners.com/in...w-style-stormwatch-purchase-and-refit.171757/

Water damage to the interior wood bulkheads/panels:
My own 1987 model had water damage to the bulkheads. It was less that yours, but I replaced them anyhow.
I gently removed the wood nosing/trim with a mallet and block of wood. I made new panels out of plywood and stained them to look similar to the original teak veneered plywood.
You should use marine grade plywood or similar that uses waterproof glues for the layers of wood.
The plywood I used wasn't marine grade, but I was told by the supplier that people use it for boats here all the time.
Check my thread for photos.
( I used the opportunity to modify the galley in my boat when I re did the bulkheads)

Exterior wood: It actually appears to be salvageable in the photos. As long as the teak isn't rotten, or split you should be able to simply sand it and refinish it.

The cabin/pop top winches, which are for the halyards (lines to raise the sails) could be purchased, but they really aren't needed. Many C22 owners don't use them. You could simply epoxy fill the mounting holes if you wished. (the rear winches on the cockpit coaming/sides are the ones used for the jib sheets to adjust the jib)
.
Keel:
Can't see much since the keel isn't dropped or removed from the boat.
But it definitely doesn't look as bad as some.

There are lots of thread threads here where people have repaired various parts of the keel system.

Can you post close up photos of the pivot etc ?

Deck coring:
I'd be worried that the deck coring is damaged, but only detailed investigation will tell the tale.

I got lucky. Other than the sliding hatch, the core on my boat seems fine. I'm "potting" every hole in the deck, and re bedding the hardware/teak as I remount it. I'd want to do that

That small plastic window/deadlight in the deck was leaking on my boat, and it's design will trap water so it can soak into the deck coring. I'd check it out. (see my thread for some photos to get an idea of why it can trap water.)

Based on the photos, I'm assuming it was stored outside for years ?
I'd be really worried about the coring where the holes were cut into the rear of the cabin for instruments.

There are a lot of sailors around Southern Ontario.
I'd suggest you find someone with experience to help you check the boat over. Call the local clubs or walk the docks. Someone may be willing to help you better assess her condition.. (Heck I'd come take a look if I wasn't so far away)

Some stuff that looks bad may be simple to fix, and stuff that is hidden can be a serious repair job.

Bottom line: it's likely all fixable.... but...
The ultimate question is: Do you want to fix a boat... or sail it ? (or both ?)
99.99999% of the time, it's cheaper to simply buy a boat in good condition. It's sure a lot less work.

I have good DIY skill.
I paid $3600 USD for my C22.
Trailer repairs + new mailsail + new rudder raised that to $6000 USD.
Based on my spreadsheet (which is a mixture of USD and CAD), I figure I'm currently sitting at over $7000.
She came with an outboard in perfect condition.

I spent all of last summer fixing up my 1987 C22. She hasn't sailed yet.

Do I regret it ? Yes and No.
Should I have waited and paid more for a very well maintained boat ? Probably... but I'm in too deep now and she's now truly "my" boat.

Read the threads here. Especially the project threads.
That way you'll get an idea what you may be getting into, for each task.

It should help you determine if it's within your skill, your budget, and your goals, to save that boat from it's neglect.
Then you will know if you made a mistake or not.

For me personally...
I planned to be sailing last summer. Not work on my boat the whole season.
Would I want to fix up your boat ? Not at this stage of my wants/needs/life.

Should you do it ? Only you can know for sure.

Cheers !
Roy

EDIT: check this thread for another C22 of around that age. He paid $3500 USD
http://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/shopping-for-a-catalina-22.178442/#post-1287029

Texas Gun-Man · May 16, 2016

On the flip side....I don't have the DIY skills that Leeward has.
I'm a medical professional that spent years in trauma, and I have an old joke.
"If you get shot in the chest I'm a great guy to have around. If you want your oil changed, you're screwed."
Over the years I've picked some stuff up, but would never be able to do what Leeward Rail has done.
So.....I bought a '96 MkII in almost perfect condition for $8k. I'm sure it wasn't as much fun as LR had building his, but I don't have his skills.
Just some food for thought.

Leeward Rail · May 16, 2016

@Texas Gun-Man
Very well said !

Your boat will always be worth more than my "new style".
Yet mine will probably cost about the same and eat a lot more spare time.
Your choice was A LOT wiser, in my opinion.

Am I having fun ? Sometimes.
Do I learn/use salty words when working on the boat ? Sometimes
Do get satisfaction from seeing the projects being completed ? Yes
Would I rather be sailing ? Usually

@CloudDiver has a much bigger project on his hands, and he has a lot of skills that most people don't. He makes me look like a total rookie,and I admire the quality of his work.
His boat will be exceptional when completed.
But, as he usually says... we will be sailing before he is.

@reefsider
For some current asking price examples, check the classifieds on this site.

CloudDiver · May 17, 2016

I'll start with two words... DAY UM!!! Is that two words or just two syllables?
First off, I agree with what everything Roy said above and thanks for the props.
Reefsider, I'm going to assume you might want to get some sailing in this summer rather than just do work like I have for the last year and some change... so here's my advice on getting the boat sail ready with minimum expense. You may not believe it, but the boat will look 1000% better after two weekends of work.
- Strip everything you can off the boat, inside and out, but its not necessary to take off complicated things like the bow and stern pulpit or any of the bedded hardware.
- I'm sure you have a Wet-dry Shop Vac... remove all the interior wood carefully, label everything. Remove everything from the interior of the boat that would be sensitive to water, and but that Shop Vac to work sucking out all that junk....
- Get a pressure washer. Not a huge one with a motor, and electric one will do fine. Something you rent for a day or weekend will do the trick. To clean out the interior use a solution of simple green first, that will get the majority of the gunk and dirt. Suck out the water with the shop vac and keep a fan going for constant air flow. Follow up the scrubbing with some bleach to address mildew because I'm sure there is a bunch. If you have stains on the gelcoat worry about it later, wiping with acetone can resolve that.
- On the exterior, it might be a good idea to tape up areas where water might get in like around the companion way. Don't worry about taping off the windows or deck hardware because with these you'll want to know if they leak or not. Get yourself 2 or 3 bottles of Clorox SoftScrub with bleach and stiff bristled scrub brush. Give a good pre rinse with the pressure washer and then go to town with the soft scrub on every surface. Let the cleaner sit on the surfaces for a while to let them work, scrub it twice... then power wash off. You will be AMAZED at how clean you will get everything. Like the interior, stubborn stains can be wiped with acetone.
- For that mast and boom that look horribly discolored... Find a welding supply store in your area if you can. Ask for a metal cleaner/degreaser/de-scaler that has phosphoric acid as it active ingredient. This is a common product that is just a mild acid solution, it is not dangerous to use just don't spray it in your eyes, LOL. Anyway, just put your mast on a set of saw horses and wet it with water. Spray the solution on the aluminum and let it sit for a few minutes (but always keep it wet), then lightly scrub with a scotch brite pad. Do this at least 3 times, the longer you let it sit and act the cleaner you will get it, just always keep it wet and fully rinse off with fresh water when done. Your mast will look almost new.

CloudDiver · May 17, 2016

You'll feel way better when you have a clean hull to work with. On the interior wood you can just give it a light sanding. Some oxycylic acid (wood bleach) can help get rid of the water stains but you might not want to even bother with that if you are going to replace them with new wood anyway. as long as the wood isn't delaminated or totally rotten you should be fine. You can just put a couple coats of Cetol on it to freshen it up and put it back in the boat. Do the same with exterior teak. Only remove it if it is leaking and needs to be re-bedded. otherwise, sand it in place and apply several coats of Cetol.

Keep your eyes on the West marine website... get on their email list for sales. Around memorial day weekend they should do another 40% off bulk rope sale and you can get all-new running rigging for about $250 or less.

For the keel, you should be able to just drop it down enough to get to all the rust spots. Wire brush them as much as possible and apply a rust-converting spray on primer. then touch up the bottom paint.

Gene Neill · May 17, 2016

First things first: Hang onto that cooler if you can! They don't make them like that anymore, and the new ones are not nearly as sturdy. Same goes for the garbage can, if it still has one. You will never find another one like it.

Then, the first thing I'd do after initial cleanup would be to remove and rebed all the deck fittings, whether they appear to be leaking or not. IMHO, that is the most urgent item on your agenda, if you are at all concerned with the long term.

Richie50 · May 17, 2016

Gene Neill said:
Then, the first thing I'd do after initial cleanup would be to remove and rebed all the deck fittings, whether they appear to be leaking or not. IMHO, that is the most urgent item on your agenda, if you are at all concerned with the long term.

I have considered rebedding all the fittings and stanchions but wondered what kind of time is involved. Can anyone advise based on past experiences. Have you done during the sailing season or not?

CloudDiver · May 17, 2016

Richie,
If you are just re-bedding all the deck hardware and you don't have any other problems to contend with, you should be able to do that in one weekend. Probably a good idea to do it with rig down and out of the water if possible, otherwise you can't re-bed the mast-step, stem-fitting, and chain-plate eye-bolts. Having a helper is critical to hold the fasteners on the top while you turn the nuts down below. Just have your supplies on hand like the butyl tape and all your tools. Plan for at least two full work days, especially if you want to re-bed the exterior teak.

BlowMeAway · May 17, 2016

Hi Reefsider, welcome to SBO! You'll find all the answers to your questions and concerns here. I know I did. As CloudDiver said DAY-UM, or as we say up here in NY...DAM! That's a dirty girl! My first impression from your images is to "raise the white flag", but I've always been a Debbie Downer when it comes to the amount of work you're likely to experience. (Wah...wah..wah) It almost seems from what I'm looking at here, is that the previous owner started to part out his boat for $$'s. Meters missing, cabin top winches removed, etc. If this boat was expected to continue its on-water service, I would have at least expected to see some patches or repairs. Sure, there's been total neglect, but at the price you paid for the remnants and trailer, I suppose I could understand your intrinsic desire to get her refurbed. My bigger fear with a boat in that condition is that there is some hidden problem/defect that will only manifest itself later, as you work your fingers to the bone. I'll make a deal with you...if you clean the detritus off that bitch and post a few of the images from your hard initial work...I guarantee Debbie Downer, and other Nay-Sayers will become your cheer leaders. Good luck friend...

Leeward Rail · May 17, 2016

Looking good.

I'm in agreement. Cleaning her up will go a long way to providing motivation, and should give you a better idea of what needs to be done. As long as the core is in good shape, the rest can be dealt with step by step.

As for making her better than one in good shape... maybe so.
For my needs the new style c22 is the best model, since it has many improvements over the original design and with some work, is the closest to being a mini cruiser.
The best thing about fixing up a boat is that you can make her into what you want.

The problem with my bulkheads turned into a new galley based on @watercolors II own modifications.