H260 Single line reefing

Apr 27, 2010
1,157
Hunter 23 Lake Wallenpaupack
It depends on how your slides are set up compared to the reef cringle. On my 23, I have a pin that goes into the mast just above the top of the gate that lets the slides come out (that is, at the bottom of the track just above the gate opening). When the main is lowered, the slides stack up above this pin (if the pin were out, the slides would come out of the mast track, making it harder to flake, and more to the point, I'd have to feed them all back in next time I raised sail). I am not at the boat, but I think there are 3 or 4 slides below the lower reef point. When these are stacked, the cringle is located such that it cannot be pulled down to the horn. Picture a setup where the cringle is an inch or two above the slide immediately below it. The cringle would only be able to be pulled own less than an inch lower than that slide just under it. That slide would be say 6 inches or so above the top of the mast gate, depending on how many slides were below the cringle. So the cringle can't be pulled down to the horn.
 
Jun 25, 2004
1,108
Corsair F24 Mk1 003 San Francisco Bay, CA
It depends on how your slides are set up compared to the reef cringle. On my 23, I have a pin that goes into the mast just above the top of the gate that lets the slides come out (that is, at the bottom of the track just above the gate opening). When the main is lowered, the slides stack up above this pin (if the pin were out, the slides would come out of the mast track, making it harder to flake, and more to the point, I'd have to feed them all back in next time I raised sail). I am not at the boat, but I think there are 3 or 4 slides below the lower reef point. When these are stacked, the cringle is located such that it cannot be pulled down to the horn. Picture a setup where the cringle is an inch or two above the slide immediately below it. The cringle would only be able to be pulled own less than an inch lower than that slide just under it. That slide would be say 6 inches or so above the top of the mast gate, depending on how many slides were below the cringle. So the cringle can't be pulled down to the horn.
The sailmaker who made that sail for you screwed up. The slide immediately below the reef cringle should be12-18 incheds below the cringle, depending on the the location of the slide immediately above the reef cringle. If you want to reef with ease, take it to a sail maker and have them remove a slide or two and install one or two new ones, properly placed

It should take 1-1.5 hours of labor plus a nominal cost for parts. There's no need to remove the old slide grommets, which is very time consuming and expensive.

Judy B
Retired sailmaker.
 
Apr 27, 2010
1,157
Hunter 23 Lake Wallenpaupack
Thanks DrJudy - I sort of figured it wasn't optimal, after your earlier post. I just had a loft fix the shrunken bolt rope, and don't want to bother bringing it back again. I tend to not go out when I'd have to reef, and given we are on a lake, waves never get massive, so I will live with it for now - it is not that hard to pull the pin and let a few slugs out when I do reef, and I have a single line that reefs the leech only, so I have to visit the mast to tighten that reefing line and hook the luff cringle in any case.
 
Jun 25, 2004
1,108
Corsair F24 Mk1 003 San Francisco Bay, CA
Judy
Thanks for this informative posting.
Could you expand on your "If you're using a line rather than a hook for the fowrad reef line, do NOT put the line though the grommet, trapping the sail slides . Run it up one side of the sail to a ring or block at the reef, and back down on the SAME side."comment? Is this H260 specific guidance? I ask because I have recently acquired a boat that has a two line reefing system that the original owner set up. The forward line in my case is attached to the mast, passes through the reef grommet and then to a small block and cleat system on the other side of the mast. I can of course alter the setup but can't visualize the problem created by going through the grommet.
@Hunter216
I'll need to draw it for you. I'd be happy to do that later. Right now I'm heading out to work on a boom and a mast.

Judy
 
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Sep 22, 2018
1,869
Hunter 216 Kingston
@Hunter 216
I'll need to draw it for you. I'd be happy to do that later. Right now I'm heading out to work on a boom and a mast.

Judy
OK thanks, I find your comments with illustration very enlightening.

Just to zero in on the point I'm confused about - the bit about the trapping the sail slides.

I get that a sail could he made where there is a "stack" of slides preventing a good reef, the value of the floppy rings (you should copyright that term BTW ;)) etc. but don't understand how the routing of the forward reef line would somehow "trap" anything.
 

Kermit

.
Jul 31, 2010
5,506
AquaCat 12.5 17342 Wateree Lake, SC
I’m totally confused on all of this. I have to let several slugs drop to reef. A diagram would be incredibly helpful.
 
Nov 10, 2017
258
Hunter Legend 260 Epidavros
Judy and Jackdaw, thank you for your replies. They are appreciated and I do understand where you are coming from.
Why I am looking at single reef is obviously for ease and a tidier cockpit of lines, blocks and clutches, I have no idea of the stress due to the friction but if it is at all possible I would like to crack on. If I do find it too much I can then revert to a two line system without to much effort. The first system I saw was with cheek blocks on the outside of the boom. This is why I rejected this idea because the stack bag not because of tethering the aft leech line.
BTW you are right Judy, it is easier to mod the stack bag than trying to work around it but for me I don't think it will hamper me.
Another I have seen looks more like a conveyor belt system in Dahl's WW&TCF. There is another with a double ended sliding within the boom which I think is way OTT for a boat this size.
Justin has just posted a +1 also with a 2 line system so it looks like that might be the way to go . . . .unless ?

To anyone that may have interest in my single line reefing or to those who had any doubts this doesn't work . . . . . Believe me it does and very well too.
The line is tied off about 3/4 aft on the boom (Zspars), this is through cringles in my stack pack bag. Then up the sail to a stitched tape through a cringle to a pulley block at the reefing point, then down through the aft boom sheave and run to the forward sheave but thread the opposite way through. Here I used a Dremel just to smooth out the casting where the reefing comes out to save any future wear. Then up again to again to another tape through cringle and pulley block. Now back down to a pulley block at the mast foot plate. Next I mounted a cheek block on top of the 2way deck organiser and ran through this to the cockpit. Voila.
To reef, I turned into wind, let the main down with one hand having a couple of turns on the stb winch as you draw on the reefing line with your other, this may surprise a lot of you but this was way so easy and free, I was expecting a drama but it just didn't happen.
Shaking out the reef was the same but in reverse, but to be honest I did have to tease out some slack at the aft of the boom but this not a anomaly in my experience of shaking out a reef.
I think I need a cringle in my stack bag near to the goose neck, I think there is a little friction there and this may improve the situation. Whatever, it was no great shakes and the most important thing is that I didn't have to leave the cockpit.
Mission accomplished.


IMG_20190616_124005(1).jpg IMG_20190616_124043.jpg IMG_20190616_124137.jpg
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,385
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
To anyone that may have interest in my single line reefing or to those who had any doubts this doesn't work . . . . . Believe me it does and very well too.
The line is tied off about 3/4 aft on the boom (Zspars), this is through cringles in my stack pack bag. Then up the sail to a stitched tape through a cringle to a pulley block at the reefing point, then down through the aft boom sheave and run to the forward sheave but thread the opposite way through. Here I used a Dremel just to smooth out the casting where the reefing comes out to save any future wear. Then up again to again to another tape through cringle and pulley block. Now back down to a pulley block at the mast foot plate. Next I mounted a cheek block on top of the 2way deck organiser and ran through this to the cockpit. Voila.
To reef, I turned into wind, let the main down with one hand having a couple of turns on the stb winch as you draw on the reefing line with your other, this may surprise a lot of you but this was way so easy and free, I was expecting a drama but it just didn't happen.
Shaking out the reef was the same but in reverse, but to be honest I did have to tease out some slack at the aft of the boom but this not a anomaly in my experience of shaking out a reef.
I think I need a cringle in my stack bag near to the goose neck, I think there is a little friction there and this may improve the situation. Whatever, it was no great shakes and the most important thing is that I didn't have to leave the cockpit.
Mission accomplished.


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Nice. My only comment would be to make the knot at the boom tighter so the clew can be tight to the boom. Best way is to tie a bowline at the end, the loop enclosing the line going up so it acts as a cinch knot.
 
Nov 10, 2017
258
Hunter Legend 260 Epidavros
Nice. My only comment would be to make the knot at the boom tighter so the clew can be tight to the boom. Best way is to tie a bowline at the end, the loop enclosing the line going up so it acts as a cinch knot.
I have only reefed the once to try the system and it did seem to pull down the sail tight aft. It is tied off with a bowline but you are no doubt right Jackdaw, it could do with a tighter loop.
 
Oct 26, 2018
11
Hunter 260 TO
To anyone that may have interest in my single line reefing or to those who had any doubts this doesn't work . . . . . Believe me it does and very well too.
The line is tied off about 3/4 aft on the boom (Zspars), this is through cringles in my stack pack bag. Then up the sail to a stitched tape through a cringle to a pulley block at the reefing point, then down through the aft boom sheave and run to the forward sheave but thread the opposite way through. Here I used a Dremel just to smooth out the casting where the reefing comes out to save any future wear. Then up again to again to another tape through cringle and pulley block. Now back down to a pulley block at the mast foot plate. Next I mounted a cheek block on top of the 2way deck organiser and ran through this to the cockpit. Voila.
To reef, I turned into wind, let the main down with one hand having a couple of turns on the stb winch as you draw on the reefing line with your other, this may surprise a lot of you but this was way so easy and free, I was expecting a drama but it just didn't happen.
Shaking out the reef was the same but in reverse, but to be honest I did have to tease out some slack at the aft of the boom but this not a anomaly in my experience of shaking out a reef.
I think I need a cringle in my stack bag near to the goose neck, I think there is a little friction there and this may improve the situation. Whatever, it was no great shakes and the most important thing is that I didn't have to leave the cockpit.
Mission accomplished.


View attachment 166858 View attachment 166859 View attachment 166860
If I can ask, How did you stop the reef line from pulling the luff cringle reef block bellow the top of the boom and pulling the reef line sideways through the top front sheave leaving the boom? I tried what you have done but had problems with this. It would pull the block over the top of the boom and keep pulling it down. I had to add a cheek block on the side of the mast to stop this which also pulls the luff towards the mast keeping the reef pulled tight fore and aft. I love my single reefing line setup as I almost went in the lake in heavy winds without it even though I hove to. I don't like climbing on the coach roof when it is rough seas and that is when I needed to so I could reef. Also didn't like the way the cringle kept falling off the rams horn by the time I made it back to the cockpit.

Dave.
 
Nov 10, 2017
258
Hunter Legend 260 Epidavros
If I can ask, How did you stop the reef line from pulling the luff cringle reef block bellow the top of the boom and pulling the reef line sideways through the top front sheave leaving the boom? I tried what you have done but had problems with this. It would pull the block over the top of the boom and keep pulling it down. I had to add a cheek block on the side of the mast to stop this which also pulls the luff towards the mast keeping the reef pulled tight fore and aft. I love my single reefing line setup as I almost went in the lake in heavy winds without it even though I hove to. I don't like climbing on the coach roof when it is rough seas and that is when I needed to so I could reef. Also didn't like the way the cringle kept falling off the rams horn by the time I made it back to the cockpit.

Dave.
I'm sorry Dave but I am not quite sure I'm getting your drift, please come back to me if this explanation is not what you required.
The way I do it is, I reef to my required position with the reefing cringle block to the top of the boom sheave and then cleat off the reefing line. How do you get the block below the boom? I think I have only had to reef a couple of times this season and I have not experienced any problems.
I appreciate that if you have found a problem to the way you have rigged yours and the added cheek to the mast has improved your requirements, good on you.
Remember some were very doubtful this system would work for many reasons so I am very pleased to hear you love your single line reefing.
I will take more notice the next time I reef and if I find a cheek block to the mast will improve things I will follow your mod.

Graham
 
Oct 26, 2018
11
Hunter 260 TO
Yeah it's kinda hard to put into words but essentially as I reefed the sail the the luff cringe block would come down to the top of the boom first and as I kept pulling the line to tension the leech and reefed foot of the sail the line would continue to pull down on the luff block pulling over the top of the boom and pulling the line sideways on the exiting sheave in the boom. Imagine in this pic if the mast guide was not there the reef block would be continued to be pulled down and wrapped around the boom causing the line to have a sharp turn where it exits the top of the boom. Probably OK but I felt it may start to cut the line over time.
 

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Oct 26, 2018
11
Hunter 260 TO
I first tried with a guide eye like in the pic but found it to be too much friction so I added a cheek block instead. Using Blocks on all the line turn points gives a very free running line with VERY little friction. Shaking out the reef is no worse than normal.
I also like the way it keeps the reefed luff tight to the mast giving a very snug reefed sail.
 
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Nov 10, 2017
258
Hunter Legend 260 Epidavros
Yeah it's kinda hard to put into words but essentially as I reefed the sail the the luff cringe block would come down to the top of the boom first and as I kept pulling the line to tension the leech and reefed foot of the sail the line would continue to pull down on the luff block pulling over the top of the boom and pulling the line sideways on the exiting sheave in the boom. Imagine in this pic if the mast guide was not there the reef block would be continued to be pulled down and wrapped around the boom causing the line to have a sharp turn where it exits the top of the boom. Probably OK but I felt it may start to cut the line over time.
I'm still not sure why you need to be pulling so far down and hard on the luff block. I think you are trying to pull too hard to get more shape in to your sail and this I would feel unecessary to do for my type of sailing. I just reef down, set and cleat off and reset the main halyard to my preferred sail tension.
May be you just need your clew block pulling from further aft on the boom.
Once again if I'm still missing your point there are many sail experts of a lot greater calibre than me on the forum that may be willing to pitch in with their thoughts to assist you.
 
Nov 10, 2017
258
Hunter Legend 260 Epidavros
I first tried with a guide eye like in the pic but found it to be too much friction so I added a cheek block instead. Using Blocks on all the line turn points gives a very free running line with VERY little friction. Shaking out the reef is no worse than normal.
I also like the way it keeps the reefed luff tight to the mast giving a very snug reefed sail.
I can see you point with the guide eye, friction was my first thought on seeing it. The sliders are surely keeping the luff tight to the mast, but if cheek block is working for you . . . . so as we say, crack on and enjoy!
I'm out the water now or I would go out and play to try and see your problem, so it will have to be next year.
 
Oct 26, 2018
11
Hunter 260 TO
It could be that your geometry worked out better than mine or perhaps I am tensioning the line too tight. I do like the way single line reefing works though and the wifey loves it. She can't seem to figure out tiller directions so I man the tiller leaving her to reef the sails.
So on to the next controversial project... converting from tiller to wheel.
 
Nov 10, 2017
258
Hunter Legend 260 Epidavros
It could be that your geometry worked out better than mine or perhaps I am tensioning the line too tight. I do like the way single line reefing works though and the wifey loves it. She can't seem to figure out tiller directions so I man the tiller leaving her to reef the sails.
So on to the next controversial project... converting from tiller to wheel.
I think it must be the Anglo Saxon in me because I much prefer to tiller to the wheel on small yacht such as the H260, plus the manoeuvrability. I also enjoy all the free space in the cockpit which would otherwise be taken up by the binnacle and wheel.
 
Oct 26, 2018
11
Hunter 260 TO
Seams to be a lot of differing opinions on this one and I would never try to convince someone one way or another as that would be futile but with a bad shoulder I find hanging on to the tiller for hours at a time a pain. (Literally) Lol.