Great Lakes Cruiser

[Jgizzy31]

Hi all,
Brand new to posting to the forum, even though I have used it endless resources for the last 3 years. So thank you everyone for your involvement.

The premise of this thread is to hear from fellow O'Day owners on what they think is the best model of O'Day for cruising, specifically cruising the Great Lakes. My wife and I are ready to upgrade our 1984 O'Day 222 to something larger to do longer passages in distance and duration.

So alittle insight on me and what we are looking for. First i am a born and raised native of the great mitten state and have been driving motor boats since the age of 8 on inland lakes and the Greats. After meeting my wife (then girlfriend) I had the inspiration to propose to her by buying a sailboat, restoring it, adding the proposal to the mainsail and have my best friend sail it across the straights of Mackinac and lift the sail while we were on the island. I ended up finding a 1984 O'Day 222 locally who had been somewhat neglected for the last decade. Not terrible shape but definitely needed some love. All went well, she said yes, and i was hooked on sailing. Side note, I do not suggest sailing a swing keel boat of that size across the straights, especially as a novice, almost lost the boat but thats another story. My wife and I now enjoy trailering the 222 to neat locations and dropping it in the water to stay in the marina and sail the local area for up to a week. But have come to the conclusion that this boat just dosnt stand up to what we want to be able to do with her. As in multi week trips around the great lakes, living aboard her. Also set up and take down of 2+ hours each way is a bit of a pain. Bringing me here, we want to hear from you all on your pros and cons of your boats and if your boat may meet our checklist of wants and needs. We are not exclusively looking at O'days but we do love our boat and like the looks of other O'Days.

Budget: My wife is in medical school and I run a distillery in MI, we are look at our boat more of an investment and plan to gradually work our way up to a dream boat many years down the line with several boats in between. All funds generated by selling our current boat will go to the new one plus some out of pocket. Leaving a max budget of 20K but would like to stay around 10K-15K
Use: We will almost exclusively be sailing the Great Lakes with this boat, the only way we wouldnt is if we purchased it somewhere on the east coast and i sailed it back down the Saint Lawrence. We want to be able to take her on all of the great lakes in most conditions excluding late fall early winter when the lakes get wicked. We would leave her in a marina and sail from marina to marina or anchorages until we reach our destination. Making for 1-2 week trips living exclusively on the boat. We like to share our experiences with people so it should be able to accommodate at least 2 couples. I originally wanted something i could still trailer like a 272 but that seems like more hassle than worth and then it sounds like the 272's sacrifice comfort in bigger seas for its shallow draft.

Checklist of Wants:
-Standing Room in cabin
-Rooms within Cabin, not an open air layout
-Inboard motor
-Wheel Steer
-Anchor locker ideally with windlass
-Full galley including fridge/ice chest, stove with oven, and enough room that you can realistically make 3 meals a day
-Full head with toilet shower sink, not a porta potty
-large enough saloon to comfortably relax and eat
-Comfortable in large seas and healed over
-Easily sailed for someone with now moderate experience but can still learn on
-I like the idea of a shallow draft but do not want to sacrifice comfort or seaworthness
-Would like to trailer it but wouldnt want to make sacrifices for same reasons above
-Can comfortably live on for weeks at a time or longer
-Moderate in performance, would like to go fast and maybe race but isnt a deal breaker.
-Would love to have a swim platform but not a must
-27-35 feet in length seems to be our target
-No older than 1980


Many other amenities could be listed but most are equipment that could be added or removed. The list above is more based on the original boat design. Some boats have caught my eye like the 272 the 302, the 27 and 28 and 30, I also really like the Hunter 33.5 and some Catalina models. Other brand and model suggestions would be great. So if you could provided some insight on how your boat or past boat has preformed with some of this criteria it could greatly help my search. I did not reach out to anyone in buying my first boat and looking back i would not have bought a 222 but instead looked for something like a 272 for we have already out grown the 222 where a larger model may work for us a couple more years. But we all know what they say about hind sight.
Looking forward to your responses and ill be posting much more in reference to the work ive done on our 222 and our future search, also if anyone is in the market for a very clean 84 222 i have one that will be up for sale in the next year.

Cheers
-S/V Abigail Marie

 

[jon hansen]

do not buy a saltwater boat for up here on the great lakes. fresh water boat is what you want. no exceptions.

 

[jon hansen]

https://www.sailboatlistings.com/table/Michigan

 

[daviddp]

We bought and restored an O'Day 34. I believe the 34 or 35 early 80s are great boats roomy and sea kindly. You can read about them here on the site under owners review. You should be able to find one (there are several for sale right now on the Great Lakes. As Jon has said BUY a freshwater boat. It will likely be in much better shape. PM me if you have questions

 

[Davidasailor26]

I grew up spending weekends on my family's O'Day 28. It checks of most of the boxes on your list, probably as many check marks as you could get under 30'. Really comfortable boat with lots of interior volume for its length. You probably won't win many races, especially in light wind, but it's very stable and not especially slow in heavy air. Do check around all penetration points on the deck for water intrusion and softness. O'Day used wood core under the whole deck, including areas like the jib tracks, so sogginess can be an issue. It is within your budget and does have most of the amenities you mentioned, although for the amount of time you're talking for 2 couples something larger would likely be more comfortable. Maybe a 34/35 as daviddp suggests, which is of the same era and design style but a little roomier.

I don't know as much about the 3 digit models. I have read that some hulls had issues with the layup of the keel stub, leading to loss of integrity at the keel joint. If you find one that you are interested in I would have a surveyor take a close look at that. Some hulls have been ok, but it deserves some attention.

 

[shemandr]

You don't say what lake. But as far as I know, except for western lake Erie there is pretty good depth in the lakes. I would look for a boat with a longish fin keel. Let depth be your sailing friend. When I bought my Ranger 29 from lake Michigan, it didn't even have a depth instrument. Since a longer keel = better performance, I would re-focus your search and look at other lines of boats. The French boats come to mind. You can get good sailing performance with amenities.

 

[daviddp]

No one will ever describe an O'Day 34/35 flotilla as fast. A herd of turtles would be a better choice. That said O'Day 34/35 have won many prestigious long-distance races. You will "get there" dry, comfortable, safe and maybe last. For us, its all about the journey. Our boat draws 5'7" we do love anchoring in quiet coves on lake Ontario and the bays as well as the St. Lawrence. I would much rather know how deep the water is vs how fast are we going.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

I'm normally not a fan of Catalina's. They're not bad boats but they don't do much for me. I can say that the interior layout of the Cat 30 is very nice and it has standing room

 

[Parsons]

There are literally tons of used 30+ foot sailboats around the Great Lakes for not much coin as the (older) sailors are retiring and newer ones are rare. It is a buyer's market, and many of our boats are transplanting (via truck) to warmer areas. I suggest checking out your local broker or Craigslist for great deals. If you've restored that O'day, you'll probably be able to see the trashed boats pretty quickly. Don't believe the asking price because the owners still love their boats, but probably have no idea how few cash buyers are out there with a $20 K budget. Remember to budget at least 20% of purchase to bring her up to cruising status (it will need new sails and lines!) and have fun looking.

Personally, I would abandon the O'day-only criteria as it limits you to a small portion of the market. I would also add a few feet beyond where you may be comfortable right now. You'll get used to any size boat in a single summer (just like when you buy a different car), but you will never get used to having a tiny head or cramped cockpit. It's much cheaper to buy a bit bigger than you need, than step up by two feet every few years. For perspective, cruising with a couple on a C36 is *very* comfortable, where a 30 feels a bit confining and you never have a place to store everything. Figure out what you'd like to carry for fun, and where you'll put it - dingy, bikes, water toys, extra sails, beach chairs, etc. The space, weight, and costs tend to go up by a Cube factor, so a 36 is roughly 70% more than a 30, not 20%. You might want to improve you profile or added criteria, for more accurate suggestions.

 

[Jackdaw]

You don't say what lake. But as far as I know, except for western lake Erie there is pretty good depth in the lakes. I would look for a boat with a longish fin keel. Let depth be your sailing friend. When I bought my Ranger 29 from lake Michigan, it didn't even have a depth instrument. Since a longer keel = better performance, I would re-focus your search and look at other lines of boats. The French boats come to mind. You can get good sailing performance with amenities.

Longer keel - surely you mean deeper?

'Depth' in the different Great Lakes is a relative concept, but largely academic. The water is deep enough to sail in in 99.9% of all the lakes. Unlike places like Florida and like most deeper water areas, water draft mostly limits your anchoring choices, and how close you can get to shore. The First 376 has a 7.2 draft and we never worried about it anywhere in the lakes. If you can get into your marina you'll be good.

 

[Jgizzy31]

There are literally tons of used 30+ foot sailboats around the Great Lakes for not much coin as the (older) sailors are retiring and newer ones are rare. It is a buyer's market, and many of our boats are transplanting (via truck) to warmer areas. I suggest checking out your local broker or Craigslist for great deals. If you've restored that O'day, you'll probably be able to see the trashed boats pretty quickly. Don't believe the asking price because the owners still love their boats, but probably have no idea how few cash buyers are out there with a $20 K budget. Remember to budget at least 20% of purchase to bring her up to cruising status (it will need new sails and lines!) and have fun looking.

Personally, I would abandon the O'day-only criteria as it limits you to a small portion of the market. I would also add a few feet beyond where you may be comfortable right now. You'll get used to any size boat in a single summer (just like when you buy a different car), but you will never get used to having a tiny head or cramped cockpit. It's much cheaper to buy a bit bigger than you need, than step up by two feet every few years. For perspective, cruising with a couple on a C36 is *very* comfortable, where a 30 feels a bit confining and you never have a place to store everything. Figure out what you'd like to carry for fun, and where you'll put it - dingy, bikes, water toys, extra sails, beach chairs, etc. The space, weight, and costs tend to go up by a Cube factor, so a 36 is roughly 70% more than a 30, not 20%. You might want to improve you profile or added criteria, for more accurate suggestions.

I appreciate the insight, im definitely leaning towards going longer instead of pigeon holing ourselves to a trailer-able boat, why trailer it when we could just sail it there. I will update my original post, bc we are not looking at O'Days exclusivly, i really like the Hunter 33.5 just finding one in our budget may be challenging. I have found one around 10K locally with soft bulkheads, which if thats the limit of the damage i could repair easily. One thing i didnt do before buying my 222 was get a survey (didnt find it necessary being such a small boat and i also got to test sail it) but i definitely will be getting one on the following boat. Also your point of older sailors selling out and no younger ones buying puts me in a great position being in my mid 20's. Anyway what is your current boat and or previous boats that you feel have fit our wants and you really enjoyed?

 

[Jgizzy31]

You don't say what lake. But as far as I know, except for western lake Erie there is pretty good depth in the lakes. I would look for a boat with a longish fin keel. Let depth be your sailing friend. When I bought my Ranger 29 from lake Michigan, it didn't even have a depth instrument. Since a longer keel = better performance, I would re-focus your search and look at other lines of boats. The French boats come to mind. You can get good sailing performance with amenities.

Sorry i should have clarified, the inland lake i speak of is not one of the great lakes its a 100 acre lake in the middle of Michigan. This is just what we sail on when were not on the big lake with our oday 222 which is too big for this lake but too small to enjoy all of the Great Lakes

 

[Jgizzy31]

Also i am unfamiliar with the french boats, do you have an specific models or makers i should look at?

 

[JRT]

Beneteau, Jeanneau are 2 French boats I'd look at. We went around with boats that need to be moved to our lake and in the end the added cost of moving a "great deal" was offset by the added cost. Just kept looking at all options and bought the best condition we could on our lake.

Also unless you can verify the sails age, check out online sail quotes with each boat you look at first. Sails for a Catalina 34 vs a Catalina 310 were significantly higher. I say that because new sails really make a big difference especially if you get a late 80s boat. In a 30' boat I'd budget at least $5k for new sails

 

[Tally Ho]

I had a Hunter 280 as my first boat on Lake Michigan. She was a 1996 model year iirc. She sailed very well, and I liked the 5-foot keel, B&R rig with no backstay, etc. she also had a nice, large cockpit.

But the cabin was small, lacked refrigeration, and at 28 feet left me wanting more.

I later bought an O’Day 322, and I have been very happy with her. She is older than the Hunter, but she has character. She sails very well, and I have had her out in 30 knot winds, large seas, And have always felt comfortable.

The cabin is great for a 30-foot boat, with 2 cabins, fully equipped galley, 60 gallon fresh water (in 2 tanks), and a reasonably sized head.

The cockpit seats are a little short...that is my only complaint.

Not sure if either of these boats can be had for $15-20K, but maybe. Yachtworld is your friend here.

Which distillery? I get over to Michigan wine country now and then.

Good luck with the search..

Greg

My “fleet”...the Hunter I the foreground and my O’Day in the background. I sold the Hunter shortly after the photo!

 

[dmax]

In your budget range, I would recommend the Catalina 30, O'Day 30/31 and O'Day 302 (make sure the keel has been re-inforced). All three have decent interior room. Most likely the larger Catalinas and O'Days would exceed your budget after re-fit as you won't likely find a turn-key one in that range. The key will be to find a nice one that you don't have to do too much to. Definitely buy a fresh water boat since they are all around you. Be patient and find a good boat, you don't want to regret buying a boat.

 

[dennisv]

Hey Jgizzy31, like many Michigan sailors, sitting in my family room reading about sailing, hoping that the next few months pasts by quickly (although I have been able to get a good number of house projects done). Would be interested in what, if anything, you have done. Have you purchased your new favorite boat?