Eye Splice double-braid

R

ricksoth

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Dec 1, 2020
131
CAL 27 Illahee / Brownsville WA
I am starting the process of learning (I hope) how to complete some splices.

I have watched YT's from Sampson and Premium Rope:



In both of these the outer and inner braids are so nice and loose that moving the fid is no issue. In the playing around I have done so far with 3/8 line I have for experimentation, I am having trouble getting a fid to slide inside the outer braids.

I can't get my 3/8 line inner braid to "open" enough to allow my smallest fid (smaller than the outer-braid) to allow the fid or the line to move through the inner core in the first step noted in the Sampson clip.

Have others had issues like this with the "braid" not being able to expand in diameter ("open") enough to pass the fid or line through when that step in the process is required?
 
Brian D

Brian D

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Feb 17, 2006
5,274
Lancer 27PS MCB Camp Pendleton KF6BL
Some braid is not splice-able. I have run across a few that I too had issues. When I purchased the rope (don't remember which rope it was now) there was a warning that it cannot be spliced. I thought, ha, hold my beer. Sure enough, I managed to do a loop but by the time I was done, the beer was stale. So when you purchase you rope, make sure it can be spliced.

Now, I found that working with three strand was easier and a good starting point for practice. Then move up to double braid or yacht braid.

Good luck.
 
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DArcy

DArcy

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Feb 11, 2017
1,762
Islander Freeport 36 Ottawa
How old is your practice rope? Rope that has been out in the weather for years will be much stiffer and a whole lot harder to splice. Rope is made from plastic that does eventually break down, even the polyester yacht braid.
 
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R

ricksoth

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Dec 1, 2020
131
CAL 27 Illahee / Brownsville WA
The rope I have practiced with could be old or not suitable. I don't know it's lineage.

I have some NEW ENGLAND ROPES–HTS 75 Dyneema Single Braid Line coming in 1/4" size to make some soft shackles. Maybe I will have better luck with it.
 
Hayden Watson

Hayden Watson

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Apr 5, 2009
3,017
Catalina '88 C30 tr/bs Oak Harbor, WA
Do NOT try to learn how to splice double braid with anything other than brand new line. That that has been used it much harder and stiffer and even experienced splicers will find it hard to impossible to splice.
 
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DArcy

DArcy

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Feb 11, 2017
1,762
Islander Freeport 36 Ottawa
Dyneema (UHMW polyethylene) splices very differently than traditional polyester double braid. Make sure you are using the right type of splice for each of these ropes.
 
LeeandRick

LeeandRick

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Apr 26, 2015
663
S2 26 Mid On Trailer
Hayden Watson said:
Do NOT try to learn how to splice double braid with anything other than brand new line. That that has been used it much harder and stiffer and even experienced splicers will find it hard to impossible to splice.
Click to expand
:plus:
Dyneema is a piece of cake to splice. I don't use fids just a piece of wire for single braid. The biggest issue is length of proper bury on small loops. According to Brian Toss (RIP) the bury needs to be 72 times the diameter of the rope. That's 18" in a 1/4" rope.
 
jssailem

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
22,428
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
As stated rope/line that has been in the outdoors or on a boat for awhile is full of dirt and has stretched the fibers, perhaps even heated up a few to the point they have melted or broken. You can practice the technique but you will not get a good looking finished eye splice on aged double braid.

Buy some yacht braid new line or ask if the shop has any short cutoff lengths they are throwing away. Tell them you need some practice line. They might just give you some lengths.

Follow the directions. Your first several attempts will be serviceable but maybe not pretty. After a few damns you’ll find the process is not daunting and you’ll be splicing all sorts of line.

Dynema is a different animal. Just burying the line is not enough if this is a line you will need to trust. You need a locking knot and a bury. The brummel or the Macdonald brummel depending on the length of line involved.

For soft shackles I prefer to use the Brian Toss designed knot.

8E943081-D6B3-4FC0-9A2C-9A9C977B149F.jpeg


it is strong, neat with no frayed ends showing.

Happy knot tying.
 
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S

sloughsailer

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Sep 8, 2020
48
Merit 22 Honker Bay
ricksoth said:
I am starting the process of learning (I hope) how to complete some splices.

I can't get my 3/8 line inner braid to "open" enough to allow my smallest fid (smaller than the outer-braid) to allow the fid or the line to move through the inner core in the first step noted in the Sampson clip.

Have others had issues like this with the "braid" not being able to expand in diameter ("open") enough to pass the fid or line through when that step in the process is required?
Click to expand
I had the same problem with 3/8 Staset. The fid was just too big. I finally got it through after a struggle and resorting to way too much force.
Next time I'll use my 5/16 fid when I get to that part of the splice.
 
R

ricksoth

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Dec 1, 2020
131
CAL 27 Illahee / Brownsville WA
Wow, thanks for all the great input. I will stick with new lines going forward.
 
jssailem

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
22,428
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
So If I understand it is the time when you are trying to pass the fid with the outer cover through the core and cover section. At this point in the video.

A couple of challenge points with this evolution.
  1. You need to be sure that when the fid enters the cover it does not snag the inner core.
  2. I try to use a small fid as the cover is small and the small fid moves more easily through.
  3. I also run tape starting on the fid and wrapping towards the cover inserted in the fid. This helps to make the fid and cover a smaller diameter reducing the catching of the fid on the
 
jssailem

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
22,428
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Rick Nothing wrong practicing with old line to make hang lines for fenders.n So what if the splice is not perfect or that a few of the braid fibers book as you stretched them to finish the splice.

Also nothing wrong with making stitched eye splices.
stitching-instead-of-splicing

You just need to choose your technique to meet the demands you plan to place on them.
 
Meriachee

Meriachee

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Aug 1, 2011
3,972
Catalina 270 255 Wabamun. Welcome to the marina
The fid size is the second biggest hint. The smaller, the better, but you get into a length issue. Using a very small one is easy to get through, but you may have to "come out and go back in" to get the desired distance inside. If that makes any sense.
 
R

ricksoth

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Dec 1, 2020
131
CAL 27 Illahee / Brownsville WA
What are your opinions of tubular fids (which I have now) or these types of wire pullers:

www.velasailingsupply.com

D-Splicer Set (handle and three pulling fids)

Vela Sailing Supply is your trusted store for sailing gear, marine supplies, and expert support. Shop top brands like Harken and Ronstan, with worldwide shipping!
www.velasailingsupply.com www.velasailingsupply.com
 
jssailem

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
22,428
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
The D-Splicer is my go to tool for dealing with dynema line.

I still use the old style fids to eyepiece the yacht braid lines.

Rick, I did a zoom meeting with some Catalina sailboat owners about 6 months ago, showing them how I tied the Toss Soft shackle. Would that be of interest to you?
 
Hunter216

Hunter216

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Sep 22, 2018
1,869
Hunter 216 Kingston
ricksoth said:
What are your opinions of tubular fids (which I have now) or these types of wire pullers:

www.velasailingsupply.com

D-Splicer Set (handle and three pulling fids)

Vela Sailing Supply is your trusted store for sailing gear, marine supplies, and expert support. Shop top brands like Harken and Ronstan, with worldwide shipping!
www.velasailingsupply.com www.velasailingsupply.com
Click to expand
I use tubular fids and a Dsplicer. I just started a while ago so don’t have anything to compare with but the DSplicer never snags. I have had occasion where the line “slipped” out of it but easy enough to re-thread and go again.

Fun stuff to learn - You need REALLY sharp cutting tool for dyneema. I ended up using a ceramic blade kitchen knife as nothing else I had worked :)
 
jssailem

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
22,428
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Hunter216 said:
ou need REALLY sharp cutting tool for dyneema.
Click to expand
Absolutely. My sharp steel blade dulls quickly usually requiring a resharpening after a few trims. I discovered this knife maker in Canada. He makes fair priced excellent ceramic blades.
The Rigger with Marlin Spike is an excellent tool.
 
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