Electrocution at Lake Pleasant, AZ

jssailem · Jul 14, 2020

So the stuff I learned in school is true. Hard to believe. "Don't mix Electricity and water!".

Sad tragic way to learn the hard facts of life.

In emergency training they declared... Do not jump in to rescue a person in the water. Reach out and pull them to shore. Preferably with something non conductive. ESPECIALLY in a marina.

jviss · Jul 14, 2020

Wouldn't it make sense to have some kind of alarm system that would detect the hazard and sound an alarm?

dlochner · Jul 14, 2020

It is sad, too many people swim in marinas or get in the water. Freshwater water marinas pose a greater danger than saltwater marinas.

BoatUS has been campaigning about Electric Shock Drowning (ESD) for years. They have a resource center.

BoatUS Expert Advice

BoatUS Magazine, the largest boating magazine in the US, provides boating skills, DIY maintenance, safety and news from top experts.

www.boatus.com

As individual boaters we need to take precautions against leaking electricity into marina waters. Installing GFCIs and ELCIs go a long way to preventing current entering the water.

rgranger · Jul 14, 2020

AlastairLC said:
Arizona lake 'electrocution incident' kills 2 brothers, girlfriend left with 'burn marks' on feet, legs

Two brothers have died and a girlfriend of one was left with burn marks after a possible electrocution incident at a lake in Arizona, officials and family members revealed Monday.

www.foxnews.com

I’m guessing that a dock power cord fell in the water, but why wouldn’t the circuit breaker stop the current?
That’s my marina - Scorpion Bay.
It just doesn’t pay to swim in a marina, no matter how hot it is.

Thanks for posting. It is always good to be reminded of these things.

Ron20324 · Jul 14, 2020

jviss said:
...Wouldn't it make sense to have some kind of alarm system that would detect the hazard and sound an alarm?

Nice idea, in theory, but my marina has enough trouble keeping the lights working in the shore power boxes.

jviss · Jul 14, 2020

Ron20324 said:
Nice idea, in theory, but my marina has enough trouble keeping the lights working in the shore power boxes.

I get that, but I did some looking, and there are alarm-type systems available. All your marina has to do is kill someone, and it may ultimately come under new management.

I take it this is less of an issue in salt water, is that so? Lots of people swim off the docks in my yard. We are in a tidal estuary, still pretty salty where we are. I wonder what's the risk.

p.s. from now on, inverter off when we swim at the mooring or anchor!

Ron20324 · Jul 14, 2020

...I’m guessing that a dock power cord fell in the water, but why wouldn’t the circuit breaker stop the current?

Exactly. And that is why in a post last week I advocated plugging the shore power cord into the boat BEFORE into the shore pedestal.

... Lots of people swim off the docks in my yard. We are in a tidal estuary, still pretty salty where we are. I wonder what's the risk.? DEATH !

p.s. from now on, inverter off when we swim at the mooring or anchor! IIRC, all it takes is a hot wire to lay on a ground wire.

dlochner · Jul 14, 2020

jviss said:
I take it this is less of an issue in salt water, is that so? Lots of people swim off the docks in my yard. We are in a tidal estuary, still pretty salty where we are. I wonder what's the risk.

Yes. Saltwater is a better conductor of electricity than the human body, so electricity, being basically lazy, takes the easiest shortest path around the body. In freshwater the human body is a better conductor of electricity so the current goes through the body.

Rick486 · Jul 14, 2020

Ron20324 said:
Exactly. And that is why in a post last we I advocated plugging the shore power cord into the boat BEFORE into the shore pedestal.

Yes, yes, yes,,,,,,,every time, every time. This is so easy to remember.

dlochner · Jul 14, 2020

AlastairLC said:
I’m guessing that a dock power cord fell in the water, but why wouldn’t the circuit breaker stop the current?
That’s my marina - Scorpion Bay.
It just doesn’t pay to swim in a marina, no matter how hot it is.

If a Power cord fell in to the water the circuit breaker should trip, however, the bigger problem is a faulty ground connection. It just takes a little moisture to leak current into the ground circuit. That is why GFCIs and ELCIs are important safety devices, they trip the breakers if small amounts current leak in to ground. That can happen any number of ways, I've tripped GFCIs by accidentally running a paint brush across an outlet or cleaning a gas stove top and having a damp rag brush across the ignitor.

walt · Jul 14, 2020

For some sort of fault, a conventional circuit breaker may not trip. For example, the current in the fault through the water might be 10 amps and a big problem for a swimmer close by, but not enough to trip a conventional breaker. Especially true for fresh water

However, either GFCI or ELCI at the dock power source would certainly have tripped and shut off the fault.

AlastairLC, do you know if the marina dock power outlets have ELCI or GFCI?

If they do.. either the dock ELCI or GFCI socket did not work or someone tampered with it.

dlochner · Jul 14, 2020

walt said:
If they do.. either the dock ELCI or GFCI socket did not work or someone tampered with it.

These need to be on the boat. If they are on the dock or in the circuit at the panel there will be nuisance trips.

It is also far more likely for the fault to be on the boat than one the marina wiring because most boat don't have a ELCI and many owners modify wiring and have more devices plugged in.

Maine Sail · Jul 14, 2020

Problem is the ABYC standards are voluntary and too many DIY's, & supposed "Pro's", that don't actually know what they are doing with marine AC wriing, are working on AC wiring.. All it takes is an incorrect neutral/grounding bond, on-board the a vessel, to cause an ESD. Most ESD's are cause by faulty boat wiring rather than faulty marina wiring. Will be interesting to see what they find in this one. I am going to guess Kevin Ritz and a few others are already helping investigate this one.

walt · Jul 14, 2020

ELCI or GFCI is certainly a good idea on the boat but its completely up to boat owners to correctly install. Im not sure how common it is for the marina to have GFCI / ELCI on every AC source (or the more hassle prone one ELCI circuit feeding multiple slips) but the marina I use (in Arizona) has GFCI on every single dock electrical output. You want to use power on the dock.. it goes through a GFCI. I would have thought that it was an insurance requirement. ELCI is less susceptible to nuisance tripping because of the higher trip threshold.

CarlN · Jul 14, 2020

As mentioned above this sort of electrocution isn’t really a risk in salt water. But even salt water boaters need to be careful in the fresh and brackish water you find in some sections of the ICW. Because they are used to swimming off the boat, these folks may not realize the danger.

thinwater · Jul 15, 2020

Yes, there are devices that alarm if there is a field in the water. However, there are several problems:

Detection depends on where the electrodes are located.
The problem can occur AFTER the swimmers enter the water when a boat shows up or someone flicks a switch.
As a result of the first two, a monitoring device can create a false sense of security. Thus, most marinas elect to prohibit swimming. The article did not say if that was the case.

Freshwater marinas are very difficult to make safe, because as Mainesail points out, the fault could be on a boat.

Preventing ESD

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Interesting that the FOX page had primarily two type of comments; pointlessly mean and ignorant of the topic. They must believe such comments boost ratings.

D Swanson · Jul 15, 2020

Another senseless tragedy, more than likely the result of simple ignorance. This is a pet peeve of mine as I see people swimming in my home marina all the time. Not only is the water dirty (street sewer overflow from our local municipality - not to mention petrol drips and spills from careless boaters and poorly maintained equipment) there is always the potential of electrocution!

Regretfully, this is not universally understood and at least in my home marina there is no information or warnings regarding the dangers posed by swimming. Why not take the boat out into the lake and enjoy a dip in clean, safe water?

jviss · Jul 15, 2020

How far from the marina or other boats need one be to be safe?

Electrocution at Lake Pleasant, AZ

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SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John

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